Jib lead track/car

Bill1565 · Oct 23, 2011

I had garhauer car movers on an S-2 7.9 (26feet). had 3:1 leverage. Didn't need to luff, could pull the car back under load. I have 4 snatch blocks on my 37 footer now. I run the sheet thru a fixed block as far back as I would ever be, then forward thru the two snatch blocks to as far forward as I want on a reach. It's easy to release the snatch blocks and move the lead forward. Some tougher to luff up and move the lead back.

Merlin Clark · Oct 23, 2011

Cool idea. Maybe add a line from the "car" (fiddle), led back to the cockpit for hauling it aft?
Probably use good shock cord to pull it forward.
Great drawing BTW!

Joe · Oct 23, 2011

First of all, the drawing is nice.... but you mispelled clew. heh, heh,

Rather than stretchy sta-set for the guide line, run a single length of 1/4" hi tech single braid, such as amsteel, shackled directly to the toe rail. Remember it will lift when tensioned so there is no problem with clearance and the little blocks are unneccessary.

To hold the lead block in place... a control line to pull the block forward and prevent it form being pushed backward naturally by the jib sheet's lifting action will work. You could run the line forward to a small turning block on the toe rail, then back to a cleat near the cockpit. Use some strong shock cord on the back side of the jib lead to pull it backward when you release the forward control line as you luff up.

Merlin Clark · Oct 23, 2011

Damn. I was backwards again!

All U Get · Oct 23, 2011

dscribner said:
As I have it sketched, pulling one line will bring it forward, the other will draw it back. This "should" work because the line is a loop with the traveling block tied to both bitter ends. I like the amsteel idea. The less stretch the better. I need to figure how to hold the line in place once I have the block situated. Keep the ideas coming!

Hi dscribner,
I'm not the authority on this but my belief is that the systems marketed for this purpose are designed with a shuttle on a track to keep the loads down. From my past rock-n-rescue days the force on your system will increases as the angle for the shuttle block decreases. So pulling your line tight over the 8 feet will greatly increase your load on the anchored ends. I'm trying to remember the formula and an online source for anchored traverses, but I'm drawing a blank. I could get info from others if you would like. I won't be offended if you think I'm out to lunch on this either.
All U Get

Joe · Oct 23, 2011

dscribner said:
As I have it sketched, pulling one line will bring it forward, the other will draw it back. This "should" work because the line is a loop with the traveling block tied to both bitter ends. I like the amsteel idea. The less stretch the better. I need to figure how to hold the line in place once I have the block situated. Keep the ideas coming!

I would get away from the idea of a moving guide line. A static, single line (like a fixed track) with the car/block sliding along it would be much simpler and stronger. A purled sleeve on the shackle end of the block would allow it to slide along the guide line.

Then, all you need is one control line.... to pull the car forward, or to keep it from slipping backwards. Since you don't have a track for your jib leads, using the toe rail instead, you don't realize that the car will slide backwards on it's own.... the sail's lifting power puts upwards tension on the sheet pushing the car backwards.

So... it you simply tie some bungee to the moving block to help pull the car backwards, then you control it's position with a single line run forward from the lead to a turning block, then back to a convenient cleat near the cockpit.

Here's a link to view some different systems: http://www.apsltd.com/c-664-jibgenoaleadsystems.aspx they all use tracks, but you could adapt them to your static guide line system.

In the picture is a simple system that you could modify to your static guide line system... I'd just add a short line with a loop to act as handle to pull the car backwards... or go with the bungee.

Manureva · Oct 24, 2011

i dont know but on mine it is easier to bring the block back then foward as the pressure on the sheet has a natural tendencie to back the block , i would try to see if you can rig your barber hauler rigth on the block and see if this works for you

All U Get · Oct 24, 2011

dscribner said:
Is this closer? A single hold down line with one block forward to draw the fiddle forward? Oh, and a "real" track isn't even an option. Money is one obstacle but the other is I sheet my jib outside of the life lines to all the action must take place by the toe rail.

Hi again,
How about trying no hold down line and not fiddle with a fiddle. A single block on the sheet with a line to a forward block on the toe rail? Do you find yourself moving the toe rail block 8 feet every time out? I tried to use your pic, it was nice before I got my paint brush on it.

All U Get

Joe · Oct 24, 2011

dscribner said:
Is this closer? A single hold down line with one block forward to draw the fiddle forward? Oh, and a "real" track isn't even an option. Money is one obstacle but the other is I sheet my jib outside of the life lines to all the action mus take place by the toe rail.

Yes... that's what I had in mind... but you don't even need a "fiddle" block.... takes up too much room.. just get a block like the one I've pictured below. The block will slide on the guideline, and you can keep it down close to the toe rail. Attach some bungee between the block's back side and a stanchion to help aft movement.

Here's another suggestion: Include a tension adjuster on the guideline, set behind the aft shackle. Splice in eyes on each end of the guideline... very easy on single braid amsteel. The forward eye is shackled to the toe rail as pictured. The aft end runs through the back shackle and connects to a turnbuckle that is then shackled to the toe rail. Now you can adjust the tension of the guidline. I would also suggest the forward eye not have a thimble, so you can thread on the lead block easily. The forward shackle should be fairly thick... I'm thinking of a carabiner... the thickness will compensate for the missing thimble.

All You Get.... That won't work. The block will move all over the place without some kind of static connection to the boat.

Barnacle Bill · Oct 24, 2011

Anyone think about sail trim? The best basic location for the lead for any sail is so when you point the boat into the wind the luff breaks evenly the entire length of the luff (the leading edge of the sail). So, if your lead is too far aft, the upper half will break first. If the lead is too far forward, the lower half will break first. So, you move the lead so that the entire luff breaks at the same time (or luffs at the same time) when you are close hauled and steer the boat so it luffs. You don't need to concern yourself with loads assuming you have the proper gear installed for the boat size you own. It is a matter of sail trim for best performance. When in heavy air, you can move the lead aft so that the upper half of the sail breaks first, which helps de-power the rig in heavy conditions. By sheeting your headsails inside the lifelines, if the shrouds allow it, you will be able to sail closer to the wind on upwind tacks. The Lancer has slotted aluminum toe rails outboard on the gunwale. You have to find that perfect point to attach the block so that your entire luff breaks at the same time when pointing too high into the wind so that the sail luffs. If you install a track inside the lifelines, yet outboard the upper shroud (if there is room), then you have a track with a movable car for more easy adjustment.

rrranch · Oct 25, 2011

I'm still taking lessons on my boat so forgive me if I am completely off track here. The man teaching me just goes out and stands on the line with one foot and moves the block on the sliding track with his other one. Other than when he unlatches it he's got both hands on something up there. I've done it a few times too and haven't had any trouble at all. I haven't tried it with more than a 135% up front though. This is about the only thing we have to leave the cockpit for on my boat. It would be nice having a safer way to do it without going forward.

All U Get · Oct 25, 2011

Looks like what I was thinking.
All U Get

SamLust · Oct 27, 2011

dscribner;

Your drawing in post number 10 is exactly what you want. I've done this. The alternative is to bolt some track to the toe rail. Or have your 150 recut to a high clew. If it's done right you rarely have to move the car. I had my 135 cut high just because there is so much traffic on Barnegat bay I didn't want the visability problems of a "normal" cut. I have 11 feet of track on both sides and yet I rarely have to adjust regardless of how far I'm reefed.

romagnuo · Nov 16, 2011

Beginner on S2 8.0B needing simple fairlead

New to the forum!
I just bought an S2 8.0 to practice sailing (i'm a beginner, and just want to cruise, not race or anything, and not likely to sail in strong winds). I have a 150 genoa, and realize i need some type of fairlead for jib sheets (since sheets seem to lock on the winch), that i assume i have to attach to the toerail since there is no track on the deck.
This thread is pretty close to what i was looking for, but I don't need to maintain perfect trim at this point for my purposes, and not likely to move blocks much up and down the toe rail. The contraption in the diagram (which is pretty cool btw) is probably more complicated than what i need, but i need something.

Is the best/cheapest solution to get snatch blocks (one for each side)? Are they strong enough on their own?
FYI, I'm honestly just learning the terminology and had to google some of the terms in the existing thread just to understand what was said ;-) So, be very basic with me!

Would another simple block (i.e. cheaper) also work (other than being not as quick and easy to move as the snatch block)?
Thx for any advice!
Joe.

Joe · Nov 16, 2011

romagnuo said:
New to the forum!
I just bought an S2 8.0 to practice sailing (i'm a beginner, and just want to cruise, not race or anything, and not likely to sail in strong winds). I have a 150 genoa, and realize i need some type of fairlead for jib sheets (since sheets seem to lock on the winch), that i assume i have to attach to the toerail since there is no track on the deck.
This thread is pretty close to what i was looking for, but I don't need to maintain perfect trim at this point for my purposes, and not likely to move blocks much up and down the toe rail. The contraption in the diagram (which is pretty cool btw) is probably more complicated than what i need, but i need something.

Is the best/cheapest solution to get snatch blocks (one for each side)? Are they strong enough on their own?
FYI, I'm honestly just learning the terminology and had to google some of the terms in the existing thread just to understand what was said ;-) So, be very basic with me!

Would another simple block (i.e. cheaper) also work (other than being not as quick and easy to move as the snatch block)?
Thx for any advice!
Joe.

Snatch blocks are expensive. They're designed to break apart so they can be snapped onto a line under strain. All you really need is a block with a shackle large enough to attach it to the toe rail. Two of these will save you more than $200 over similarly sized snatch blocks. I'd get the one with the snap shackle.... easy to move to another postition.

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