Here we go again... another teen sailor!

[KD3PC]

Deadline..

it is in the Netherlands....their gov't, laws and jails are far different than ours (amsterdam - certain sex and drugs are completely legal)....the article says, "Laura won a legal battle when a court released her from the guardianship of Dutch child protection agencies."...

their rules, their courts, their charges...

 

[MJWarner]

Well, I was going to comment. But then Maine Sail said all that needed to be said. Go get 'em Laura Dekker! Live YOUR life!

 

[Phil Herring]

I don't think anyone is telling anyone else what they can or can't do, but we're all entitled to opinions.

I only worry how many of these kids are being pushed out the door to do this stuff by their spotlight-seeking parents... exactly the impression I got from Tanya A.'s book so many years ago.Knowing some 14 year-olds, it's tough to imagine, but never say never.

 

[Don S/V ILLusion]

Somebody please explain to me how a 14 yr old child, regardless of where they live or how they were nurtured, can possibly have the maturity, judgment and common sense most adults don't possess sufficiently to do this safely. Please!

 

[Steve Dion]

Don:

AMEN!

 

[John]

I don't think any generalization can be made fairly. I think the entire Sunderland family, the girl included, were nearly criminally negligent. For one thing, why did they send her around the world in a racing boat? Why did she go into the Southern Ocean at a time that experienced sailors said they'd never go there? Why? The only explanation I can see is that she and her entire family were looking for fame and fortune. That's based on what I've read about that case (mainly in Latitude 38, a magazine not known for a conservative view of life -- not talking about politics here.)

Laura Dekker and her family? It may be something completely different. What I read was that Dekker's mom was initially against it but now supports it. Without knowing the specifics of this particular situation, making a judgment is a little like trying to answer the question, "what is the best sailboat for me?"

 

[Joe]

The difference is having a child die in combat versus having a child die from a drug over dose. In the former some good may have come from the loss, in the latter it is a complete waste.

Umm... that's just not appropriate, imho. There is no qualifying, or evaluating the worth of the death of someone else's child. My child has survived combat, but his best friend died in an IED incident last year.... IT WAS DEFINITELY A WASTE.... it sucked... his parents, both non-english speaking, have no solace in the fact that he was killed in the line of duty. His 6 year old will grow up without him. To them his death was just as unnecessary as your overdosed teenager.

Would you call a teenager's death from heat exhaustion in football practice more noble than a teen who dies in a car crash? Ask their parents? Both would want them back alive...truth is..they're all going to heaven... and they're all tragic. Who is the better parent there? To date, how many teenagers have been lost at sea or in sailing related incidents?

You all should read this month's SAIL magazine interview with Robin Lee Graham concerning circumnavigations, teens and parenting....

"... who better to know whether a young person is ready for such responsibilty (circumnavigation) than a parent? Sure, there are bad parents with bad judgment. But a good parent knows their child and knows whether their son or daughter can handle it."

This could be called a "qualified" opinon.

 

[Joe]

Laura Dekker's effort will be a more traditional circumnavigation. But it is no way a "coastal" voyage. She has to make a number of 2 to 4 week long passages. In some ways there is more danger because she will be sailing in areas of much heavier shipping traffic... the med and the straits of Mallaca, for instance. but she is not trying to sail nonstop, unassisted... and she's sailing in a ketch rigged vessel similar to Chichester's yacht. Her dad will preceed her to each destination with the support crew ready to fix and provision the boat for each leg... Time wise, she can take advantage or weather windows. It's just a much smarter plan... yes...she just wants to be the youngest person to complete a circumnavigation.. but.. she's got over 2 years to do it... and that makes it much safer than Abby's time driven pursuit.

Laura has quite a bit of experience for 14.. she's completed a number of deliveries and has been at sea all her short life. Her father is extremely competent and the two of them will make a shakedown cruise from the Netherlands down to Portugal where the official voyage will begin.... Again, a very wise strategy since they'll undoubtedly get some heavy weather experience in the channel and the bay of Biscay... She'll also have time to dial in her autopilot... which was Abby's undoing, or one of them... and learn all the nuances of her sturdy, two-masted vessel.

Also, and this may seem irrelevent, if you look at Laura she appears to be much more mature than your normal 14 year old... not just in her wise looking face but in her total outlook, I think she understands her limitations, as Jessie did, and has set herself a very attainable goal.

I, myself, might enjoy the trip she has planned. I can't imagine sailing around the world and not stopping to smell the roses... so good for her... I wish her well on a great adventure.. I'll follow and support her without prejudice.

 

[Brian D]

Maine, in one respect you are correct; it is not our business. However, in one respect you are wrong, it is our business. No, I am not contradicting myself. We as parents have an obligation to protect our young. When we send our youth on an unchaperoned adventure, especially at the age of 14, we are not doing our jobs. This is a blatant disregard for human life. Who cares if the Europeans are more mature than the Americans. Sure haven't proved it to me with the violence one sees at their soccer matches. I don't believe that they are anymore mature than any other teen.

She has no business being out on the vast ocean by herself. No child does, nor should she take any kind of trip by herself without some sort of assurance for her safe return.

Now, having said all that, I wish her a safe trip, but this madness has to cease. What madness? The madness of one-upping that is going on. Next it will be a 13 1/2 yo who will attempt the trip, then a 13 yo, then...

If a kid wants to sail around the world, great, wait until they are 18 years old, the age we send most kids away to college.

 

[wonkodsane]

Some kids have the will, the wisdom, and the wherewithal to pull it off.

It is not for me to decide, unless the parents and the kid have obviously failed to plan. In this case, they have done an admirable job of preparing the young lady for success.

 

[Old Skool Neil]

Many of the members here have no problem with this sort of business, youngsters circumnavigating in the quest for records. Be assured, this is about records. If the quest were seeing the world, couldn't that be done when they're a little older?

OK, you're entitled to your opinions but here's an honest question for you: how young is too young? Where do you draw the line?

Abby Sunderland was 16 and y'all felt she was mature enough with sufficient experience. Seems you feel the same with Laura Dekker at age 14. So how 'bout 13? Or 12? Need I go on? At what age is it simply too young regardless of how mature or experienced they (or their fathers) claim.

Laura Dekker's saga is just beginning but Abby Sunderland's ended short of the goal. While y'all were talking about Abby's maturity and experience, from my point of view, Monday morning quarterbacking if you will, I offer the following:

1. Seems Abby wasn't experienced enough to lay on enough batteries or charging capacity. She found that out in her first 750 miles.
2. Or did she trust her father to handle that for her?
3. She wasn't experienced enough to realize a mechanical self-steering vane was more reliable than an electronic auto pilot.
4. Or did she trust her father to make that decision?
5. She wasn't experienced enough to stay the Hell out of the southern Indian ocean at that time of year.
6. Or did she trust her father to plan her route?
7. And most importantly in my opinion, she wasn't mature enough to stand up to her publicity hungry and record seeking father when she should have.

Please notice that I haven't mentioned her choice of boat for the quest. Being mature and experienced, I'm sure it was Abby who decided on that boat, right? In truth, I'm not sure any boat would have survived those conditions.

Based on the above, for me the maturity and experience proponents fall way short. So at 16 do you still think Abby was old enough, mature enough, experienced enough? Is Laura at age 14? Was she at 13 when the plan emerged and the Dutch government stepped in?

And so on.

 

[Ducati]

Glad Its Not My Kid

I would not let my son or daughter do this but personally it is really none of my business what that kid does. I say go for it however the venture is dangerous and eventually one of them will be lost at sea.

I can't help to think that the parents are sitting on the sidelines waiting for the payday (book/movie rights) and profiting at the expense of putting the kids life in danger.

When you dig deep enough, money is the root.

 

[Winkfish]

How arrogant that some of you are passing judgment on how other parents raise their kids! Do you think that they love their kids less than you? Do you think they are worse parents just because they do something differently than you would? How foolish!

How ignorant of some to think that no 14 year old, or person of any age is or is not mature enough to do anything! Just because your kids or kids you know may not be mature doesn't mean every kid is the same. Get out in the world and meet other people and you'll see for yourself. (By the way, soccer match violence - drunken ADULTS!)

How narrow minded to think that you, from reading a few articles, know better what's what than the people who are involved in these young lives every day.

You're obviously entitled to your opinions, and if you want to keep your kids in a terrarium for the rest of their life, do it. But don't judge others who choose to help their kids experience life to the fullest, even when it might be dangerous.

 

[Old Skool Neil]

How ignorant of some to think that no 14 year old, or person of any age is or is not mature enough to do anything! Just because your kids or kids you know may not be mature doesn't mean every kid is the same.

OK Winkfish (and anyone else of similar thinking), I invite you to answer my question directly: in your opinion, is there an age that's simply too young? Yes or no?

Be prepared for the obvious follow-up question.

 

[Ross]

I ask how long and how far from shore does it take to get into trouble on a boat on the ocean? Sailing around the world isn't a 360 day trip. It is 360 trips sailing on the ocean every day each with a starting point where the last day ended. If the sailings are interrupted by stops in many ports along the way then there is time for rest and repairs and reprovisioning at each stop. If many stops are planned then there is plenty of time to wait out the weather. I would rather set off for Bermuda in a well found sailboat than in a well found powerboat. A breakdown in either is bad but sailboats can be jury rigged and get you home.

 

[Banooma]

When I was 14, I had a much smaller vision of an adventure. It was a huge deal when my brother and I earned the trust of my parents to sail our Sunfish in bay waters in most places no deeper than 3 feet, and to be gone for 3 or 4 hours. We'd get back home and read, or go to the beach to bodysurf, or whatever we wanted. It was a blast, and we couldn't wait for our next opportunity. I don't think that was the result of coddling or over-parenting. My parents had an iterative approach to their confidence in our independence out on the water. Relative to my personal experience, it's difficult to imagine someone the same age circumnavigating the globe (but not impossible). A lot of kids have different experiences. Different parents have different levels of skill to offer and different abilities to measure the development of their children. My parents had hardly any experience with boating when I was that age. But, through their experiences with each of us on our little boat they could ascertain that we knew enough to be safe and make smart decisions on sunny days with mild wind conditions and no rain in the forecast. If I had the opportunity to receive a boat capable of circumnavigation, plus the experiences of several deliveries and major passage crossings, and to be provisioned every couple of weeks as I meandered across the globe, I would have jumped at the opportunity... Now I'm a parent and have different responsibilities, like teaching and nurturing my son to safely explore and love what he wants to in his life.

 

[Winkfish]

Neil, for a trip like this Dutch girl is taking? Yes.

There's a very good "harbor mice" clinic at our yacht club. It starts at 8 years old. I've seen these 8 year olds out on our lake, a large one in which heavy weather can blow up quite fiercely and quickly (L.Pontchartrain, for those familiar with it). I've seen some of these 8 year olds handle their Optimists like it was an extension of them. They were naturals. Would I think any of them should do a trip like this Dutch girl? No. I just don't think any 8 year old will have had enough experience of handling a dangerous situation on a sailboat to prepare them for such a trip.

9 or 10? Probably not, but maybe there's a prodigy out there somewhere.

12 or 13? I don't know. That depends totally on their experience (have they had to deal with any real emergencies?), their physical strength, their maturity as far as how they would act in a dangerous and stressful situation. I've seen 12 year olds with as much poise, knowledge, and experience as any grownup. I would leave that up to them and their families to decide what he or she should do.

I've also seen some 42 year olds whom I would not trust to take my garbage out.

I don't know this Dutch girl other than an article I read. But you have to trust her parents (and the courts that ultimately decided the matter) to make their decision, whether or not it turns out to be a good or a bad experience. Hindsight is 20-20, and just because something turns out badly doesn't mean the decision was wrong.

 

[Winkfish]

One other thing, such a trip should NOT be for the wrong purpose, say if a parent is just trying to live their dreams through their kid, and beating a record should not be the only consideration, or even a major consideration.

 

[Old Skool Neil]

Thanks Winkfish,

Not that it matters but I agree with much of your position. Where my opinion differs sharply is blindly trusting the parents.

As there are varying types of youngsters, so are there varying types of parents, some with vicarious ambitions. In quests such as these I suspect parental ambitions are more common. Mind you - I don't know for certain but see the very real possibility. My opinion is the Sunderland dad is the poster child for these types and his ambition put his daughter in peril as well as the Australian SAR and crews of three fishing boats.

 

[Winkfish]

Neil, the thing is, parents are the very people we should trust. They, more than anyone, know their kids. Unless there's some specific thing that a thrid person knows, abuse for example, the parents should be the ones to decide what their kids can and can't do. More correctly, what their children are and are not capable of doing.

Brian, you're right. No one (here, anyway) knows about this kid or her family, so we need to trust HER PARENTS to assess her capabilities.

However, if one of the 8 year old harbor mice drowns, I don't think it would end the harbor mouse program. It's gone on for decades. The club would have to look at the circumstances of the death. Might there be changes in the program? You bet.

As for me, my son does not have anywhere near the experience to do such a trip, and probably won't when he is 14. If there are things he wants to do, I'd look at his experience and maturity and decide whether I'll let him do it, as any parent should. My decision might be different from what other parents would allow with their kid, but that's their business. What I let my child do is my and my wife's business.