Here we go again... another teen sailor!
- Thread starter Brian D
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14 or 40 - you don't know this person and certainly have no legal or other right to challenge the decisions of her parents.
When will folks stop assuming they have all the truth and wisdom on their side.....
Let's see some hard evidence that this is unsafe behavior that risks the lives of others -- that includes the rescuers that choose to act not because they have any legal responsibility
Certainly young sailors aren't the only risk takers, young or old. Why single them out for criticism?
Speaking of risk takers have you watched kids on skate boards? Or the boys of summer diving off the bridge across the creek? My Grand daughter has been catching varsity softball since before she was 14. She played unlimited age girls softball the year she turned 13. You have a 25 year old woman trying to take home plate away from a 15 year old 120 pound catcher you have some risk. I remarked that she didn't look very bruised from her last game, she just shrugged and said she wears protective gear.
If some of you are so intent on protecting one, single 14 year old from an undetermined outcome........ why aren't you helping the kids who actually need it? Where are you when african children are recruited as "freedom fighters"and equipped with AK47's... Where are you when Yemeni parents marry off their 10 year old daughters to strange men 3 times their age? Why aren't you protesting child actors being pushed by their parents and ending up in rehab at 12? If you're really concerned, get out there and make a difference instead of soap boxing in our meaningless forum.
Everyone........ everyone... raises their kids a little differently from the next guy. I would venture to say that most of you will never have to face the decision you're so ardently opining on.... because it is doubful your child will ever ask you to support them sailing around the world. But. what if he/she did? Say you had confidence and trust in their ability to make the best effort to achieve his goal... would you help?..... Isn't that what every parent wants? For their kids to be passionate about life and want to achieve great things?
I'll bet Laura's father will agonize a lot more over when to let her start dating than he has in this challenge.... it just seems it was a natural decision and he's participating with her.... isn't that cool.. don't you wish your kid loved sailing that much?
Everyone........ everyone... raises their kids a little differently from the next guy. I would venture to say that most of you will never have to face the decision you're so ardently opining on.... because it is doubful your child will ever ask you to support them sailing around the world. But. what if he/she did? Say you had confidence and trust in their ability to make the best effort to achieve his goal... would you help?..... Isn't that what every parent wants? For their kids to be passionate about life and want to achieve great things?
I'll bet Laura's father will agonize a lot more over when to let her start dating than he has in this challenge.... it just seems it was a natural decision and he's participating with her.... isn't that cool.. don't you wish your kid loved sailing that much?
Regardless of her skills or maturity, a 14 year old blonde girl, alone on the seas gives me the willies. Not that she isn't capable at all. If she wasn't, there is no way that her parents would entertain the notion of such an endeavor. No company would endorse her. But there are sea going cultures around our globe that don't cherish life, liberty, or women the way that we Euro-Americans do. Cute girls are enslaved or worse and age is not respected. And in international waters, there is no law but what the strongest make it.
I wish her well. I hope she makes history. And I fear for her safety.
I wish her well. I hope she makes history. And I fear for her safety.
From the perspective of a sixteen year old American girl who does not sail. I told my grand daughter about this venture and she said that's scary, who would want to spend that much time disconnected with the world alone. She said that she would want a friend along at a minimum.
I believe some put the pursuit of their dreams before the realitys of cold hard facts. I can tell you personally how valuable life is. And let me tell you when someone tells you that you will no longer have the chance to be around as long as you would like or even close to the "average life span" you gain perspective increadably fast. If you have never been told that, please, you are kidding yourself if you think you can have a full understanding of what that is like. Then and sometimes only then you have a TRUE appreciation for life. I have given up some risky endevors in the pursuit of others more conservative so that I may be around healthier and happier and to be here for the woman I promised to protect and provide for, till death do us part. This I have never regreted for a moment. In fact it is why I am sailing today. Sometimes you must project beyond your dreams and evaluate weather the risks are really worth morgaging and posibly being forclosed on what might be a very satisfying life. We can preach the freedom act till we're all blue in the face but that is not really the issue. The issue boils down to the respect for human life, even if it happens to be your own. There is nothing romanic in DYING and even less alone and scared. You cannot possibly believe that circumnavigation of the planet out weighs the life of a young child who's life is just started. I admire the fortitude of the young girl, but I would not encourage her until she was old enough to fully appreciate what wonderful things life has to offer without putting hers at risk. Kids that age havent even fully developed the understanding of death as a permanent thing. The only question that needs to be asked here is whats the rush. What IS the rush. I too have a dream, it is to live a healthy life as long as I can and to instill in others to cherrish life to its fullest as it is terribly fleeting. Dont needlessly put yours at risk for the such forgetable things as records or fame. And if this is not the reason for these trips I ask again, what is the rush.
God Bless, jimmyb
God Bless, jimmyb
And that is precisely her parents' job, and they are the ONLY ones who can truly make the right decision for their child, and we have to trust their decision, whether we agree with it or not.
well its a catch 22...we have the argument that the parents can make the decision for their young child to be exposed to possible hazards and should not be circumvented..ok thats fair...but one thing still bugs me...i would think that in most instances a parents LOVE for their young child would prevent the above happening till later age..??
I don't think love is the issue here. I'm assuming this girl's parents, and all of us, love our kids more than anything in the world. It's about who is in the best position to judge a kid's competence and about when and how much you're going to cut the umbilical cord. It's going to be different for everyone, but I passionately believe that the parents should be the primary, and most times the only, decision maker as to how to raise their kids.
I will agree that they are the ONLY ones that will be making that desicion. I would argue they have an exclusive on the ability to say whether a 14 year old girl has any business being out there.
You see I believe its not her abilities or wether she has a chance on making the voyage that bothers some here, I think it is a more general issue of should we be encouraging our children to start out their lives taking such risks or should we let them grow happily to an age when they can appreciate more of what they are risking and is it worth it. Why is it not enough to simply enjoy sailing in safer and possibly more enjoyable circummsatnces. If the love is truely of sailing then sail. Sail every day of your life. Why is it so nessesary at this age. And why is it so nessesary to do it alone. To Hell with the record books. To Hell with going it alone. If the parents are so responsible with their childs life and have the desire to fullfill her dreams they should give up their day jobs and go with her in an effort to keep here safe, have they ever thought of going along with her. You see if its not for the record book or the fame this would be a no brainer.
I should not be going her, but here it is.
"We" think that parents are the best to know what is best for their children. If this IS the case then why are so many children in protective custody. Is it okay to beat a child or molest them be cause "we" are the parents, I think not.
We leave them in the car while we are doing something to satisfy our own needs. The car is 130+ deg. and the child dies of neglect. This is the parents decision too.
I hate government intervention, but there are times when someone needs to step in and make a "sensible" decision when the adult forces are out of their "Friggin' Minds".
Just because we can guide our children to make sensible decisions, why do we think they will when the parents that have raised them cannot always make the best decision for themselves and their children.
I hear that there have not been any fatalities with these kids trying these heroic stunts, but there have only been a half dozen attempts. If we have a fatality now and this is the 7th child to do this we will be showing that 14% of all the children under the age of 18 have died trying this.
Send your children/grandchildren, mine aren't going if I have anything to say about it.
"We" think that parents are the best to know what is best for their children. If this IS the case then why are so many children in protective custody. Is it okay to beat a child or molest them be cause "we" are the parents, I think not.
We leave them in the car while we are doing something to satisfy our own needs. The car is 130+ deg. and the child dies of neglect. This is the parents decision too.
I hate government intervention, but there are times when someone needs to step in and make a "sensible" decision when the adult forces are out of their "Friggin' Minds".
Just because we can guide our children to make sensible decisions, why do we think they will when the parents that have raised them cannot always make the best decision for themselves and their children.
I hear that there have not been any fatalities with these kids trying these heroic stunts, but there have only been a half dozen attempts. If we have a fatality now and this is the 7th child to do this we will be showing that 14% of all the children under the age of 18 have died trying this.
Send your children/grandchildren, mine aren't going if I have anything to say about it.
Jimmy, I agree with you. That's what we parents do is encourage our kids, teach them, and point out the risks, help them prepare. Then when they look at you and say "I REALLY want to do this," you decide whether you're going to let them do it or not, and under what conditions, whether it's crossing the street, walking to a friend's house, driving, or circumnavigating the globe. Nothing like this girl, but my little boy constantly tells me, regarding whatever activity we're doing, "I want to do it myself." Sometimes you've got to let him do it himself, even if there are risks involved.
Actually, this girl is not, I don't think, going for a record. First, there is no longer a "youngest sailor" category, as I understand it. Secondly, her father is apparently going to meet her at the end of each leg of the journey, so it's not about a true continuous circumnavigation.
Actually, this girl is not, I don't think, going for a record. First, there is no longer a "youngest sailor" category, as I understand it. Secondly, her father is apparently going to meet her at the end of each leg of the journey, so it's not about a true continuous circumnavigation.
Steve, you should have something to say about it with your children, and to an extent, your grandchildren. Obviously you can make up examples where the parents push well beyond the limit of reasonable parental discretion, like with abuse cases, where even I'll agree the government needs to step in. But because people can have vastly different ideas, all of which are reasonable, intervention needs to be done cautiously and as a last resort.
Yes Winkfish I understand. It has been good debating this issue. This is really what it is all about.
I hate more than anything Govt. intervention. They make worse desicions and are more iresponsible than most parents could ever be. I think peers of knowledge and experience should be the ones we look to here for wisdom. I would love to hear from those that have been on the brink of the worst mother nature can offer. From that body of experience I would like to gather the realities of the risks and of what rewards would be had in the end.
I am in a way a spllit personality. I am on one hand an adrenaline junky with a bad slant toward an addictive personality. On the other hand I have a heck of a conservative self-preservation side to me. I think long and hard about doing crazy $%#*. Like I said, do to my close relationship with my own mortality I love this gift of life like few realize they actually do. I mean the wonder of life is showered on us every day we wake up breathing and offers endless opportunities. I just cringe when I see a young person that may not understand how fragile it really is. Not only this young sailor but every child.
I pass no judgement on the parents in the event of a catastrophe or a success. By that time it will be too late. I do pray however that wisdom prevails either way. I followed Jessica every step of the way on her internet sight. Prayed many times for her but was fully aware that life was in the balance. Thats all.
Good hashing this one over, jimmyb
I hate more than anything Govt. intervention. They make worse desicions and are more iresponsible than most parents could ever be. I think peers of knowledge and experience should be the ones we look to here for wisdom. I would love to hear from those that have been on the brink of the worst mother nature can offer. From that body of experience I would like to gather the realities of the risks and of what rewards would be had in the end.
I am in a way a spllit personality. I am on one hand an adrenaline junky with a bad slant toward an addictive personality. On the other hand I have a heck of a conservative self-preservation side to me. I think long and hard about doing crazy $%#*. Like I said, do to my close relationship with my own mortality I love this gift of life like few realize they actually do. I mean the wonder of life is showered on us every day we wake up breathing and offers endless opportunities. I just cringe when I see a young person that may not understand how fragile it really is. Not only this young sailor but every child.
I pass no judgement on the parents in the event of a catastrophe or a success. By that time it will be too late. I do pray however that wisdom prevails either way. I followed Jessica every step of the way on her internet sight. Prayed many times for her but was fully aware that life was in the balance. Thats all.
Good hashing this one over, jimmyb
It really saddens me to read about all the "nanny" thinking and attitudes on this forum from folks who think they know better than the parents how to raise these children. I guess it is no different though than the "nanny state" we currently live in where our elected officials know better how to spend my money than I do too.
To me this is nothing more than a "perspective" approach to raising other children. For those who did not grow up learning to walk on boats, as some of us did, it is easy to see how the paranoia of the ocean can develop a "perspective" of it being largely dangerous. The reality is that I don't know anyone personally who has drowned or died while sailing yet I know MANY whom have died in cars or from any of the listed events below.
So far we are at a 100% success rate with young child navigators and this STARTED in the 1960's with Robin Lee Graham so it is fad that has out lasted bell bottoms, feathered hair and daisy duke shorts. The quest for an official record has been removed.
Here's what I think we should do about all YOUR children because after all each of these activities has death associated with it.
No driving until 40 (6466 deaths in 2000 ages 0-18)
No bicycles until 40
No football games until 40
No hockey until 40
No soccer until 40
No mountain climbing until 40
No skateboards until 40
No swimming until 40
No matches shall be allowed in any of your houses until kids are 40
No children shall ride in any vehicle until the age of 40
No peanuts shall be allowed anywhere on the planet EVER
No parent shall let a child with asthma leave the "bubble" until 40
No one shall live in any home where a child has the ability to fall until 40
No toxic / poisonous chemicals in the house until 40
No parent shall live in any house that has electrical outlets until child is 40
No items in the house which could cause suffocation until 40
No parent shall let their child commit suicide (1621 of them in 2000)
No parent shall adjust the radio, heat/ac, use a phone or talk to anyone while driving with children in the vehicle
All parents MUST be sure infants NEVER roll onto their belly while sleeping to prevent SIDS. (thousands of deaths per year)
No items that can cause a fire eg: electricity, candles, matches heating systems shall be in any house where children are present. (1946 deaths in 2000)
All Pools, bath tubs and open bodies of water shall be banned in the US due to high rates of child drowings. (1236 in 2000 0-18)
All children shall wear life jackets while within 500 yards of any open body of water that is not able to be filled in or "banned".
2000 kids per year die of abuse mostly done by their own parents
I find you guys are a rather hypocritical bunch..Lets work on the above items FIRST where we actually HAVE some death statistics instead of an area sooooo statistically small, with no known deaths, and only "what if" scenarios. Why don't you all start at home by ELIMINATING any possibility of death for your OWN CHILDREN or GRAND CHILDREN before dictating to others what is "safe and prudent" parenting to others. Your OWN kids are at a statistically higher rate of death than a child sailor....
PLEASE, PLEASE, PLEASE stop driving with your children in the vehicle!!
"When will this MADNESS stop?"
To me this is nothing more than a "perspective" approach to raising other children. For those who did not grow up learning to walk on boats, as some of us did, it is easy to see how the paranoia of the ocean can develop a "perspective" of it being largely dangerous. The reality is that I don't know anyone personally who has drowned or died while sailing yet I know MANY whom have died in cars or from any of the listed events below.
So far we are at a 100% success rate with young child navigators and this STARTED in the 1960's with Robin Lee Graham so it is fad that has out lasted bell bottoms, feathered hair and daisy duke shorts. The quest for an official record has been removed.
Here's what I think we should do about all YOUR children because after all each of these activities has death associated with it.
No driving until 40 (6466 deaths in 2000 ages 0-18)
No bicycles until 40
No football games until 40
No hockey until 40
No soccer until 40
No mountain climbing until 40
No skateboards until 40
No swimming until 40
No matches shall be allowed in any of your houses until kids are 40
No children shall ride in any vehicle until the age of 40
No peanuts shall be allowed anywhere on the planet EVER
No parent shall let a child with asthma leave the "bubble" until 40
No one shall live in any home where a child has the ability to fall until 40
No toxic / poisonous chemicals in the house until 40
No parent shall live in any house that has electrical outlets until child is 40
No items in the house which could cause suffocation until 40
No parent shall let their child commit suicide (1621 of them in 2000)
No parent shall adjust the radio, heat/ac, use a phone or talk to anyone while driving with children in the vehicle
All parents MUST be sure infants NEVER roll onto their belly while sleeping to prevent SIDS. (thousands of deaths per year)
No items that can cause a fire eg: electricity, candles, matches heating systems shall be in any house where children are present. (1946 deaths in 2000)
All Pools, bath tubs and open bodies of water shall be banned in the US due to high rates of child drowings. (1236 in 2000 0-18)
All children shall wear life jackets while within 500 yards of any open body of water that is not able to be filled in or "banned".
2000 kids per year die of abuse mostly done by their own parents
I find you guys are a rather hypocritical bunch..
Lets work on the above items FIRST where we actually HAVE some death statistics instead of an area sooooo statistically small, with no known deaths, and only "what if" scenarios. Why don't you all start at home by ELIMINATING any possibility of death for your OWN CHILDREN or GRAND CHILDREN before dictating to others what is "safe and prudent" parenting to others. Your OWN kids are at a statistically higher rate of death than a child sailor....PLEASE, PLEASE, PLEASE stop driving with your children in the vehicle!!
"When will this MADNESS stop?"
Yes, I felt it was a little too strong and could be misinterpreted. But in the points you made in answering, I agree with you.
Maine, you are one smart dude when it comes to boats, but I have to seriously question your liberal thinking (not political liberal, but "let them do anything they want" liberal thinking). Just about everything you listed there has some kind of supervision. Sailing on the open ocean does not.
BIG DIFFERENCE MY FELLOW MODERATOR, BIG DIFFERENCE!
All I can say is that I am glad that Guiness and WSSRC have taken some of the blush off the rose. Now if we could just get the media to join in...slim hope there. The Dekker situation seems to be quite different than the Sunderlands. Personally I can see why a teenager, perhaps raised in a cruising family, would desire a challenge like this and as long as it is well planned, the boat is well founded and there is an evaluation of the teen performed by a competent psychologist to ensure they truly desire to make the trip and are not being coerced, than go for it. Actually...I just said that last part to get Maine going LOL.
The Guinness' World Records and the World Speed Record Council have decided they will no longer recognize records for "youngest" sailors to avoid encouraging overly optimistic youths backed by ambitious parents from seeking a world record.
The Guinness' World Records and the World Speed Record Council have decided they will no longer recognize records for "youngest" sailors to avoid encouraging overly optimistic youths backed by ambitious parents from seeking a world record.
Jimmy, it has been good to hash this out. And I agree with Maine, it is a matter of perspective - how one chooses to rasie his or her kids.
I used to be a scuba instructor as a hobby. My last dive was with a recent student (there were other certified divers on the trip as well). Because i was with a new diver, we took it very carefully - not as deep as everyone else, not down as long, longer safety stops coming up. I got bent, bad. Couldn't walk for a couple of weeks, couldn't pee for a day and a half, etc. Gradually it all came back, though i still have a tiny bit of numbness in my left leg. My doctor explained I got "hit" in the part of my spine that controls bladder function, sexual function, walking; but that the spine and nerves have a lot of duplication, which is why I got back to where I am. He also said that I could probably dive again and be perfectly fine, but if I got bent again, there was a greater chance I would get damaged in the same spot, and I had already used of the duplication of the nerves. I loved diving, absolutely loved it, but it wasn't that important to me.
I have, however, encouraged anyone who expressed an interest in scuba to go for it. If my son expressed an interest, I'd encourage him as well. I'd teach him what I could, and make sure he learned from others, try my best to make sure he understands the risks and is ready to deal with any problems. Then I'd pat him on the back and say, "If you really want to do this, I think you're ready. Be carefull and Enjoy!!!" Then I'd enjoy sharing stories with him. If he got injured or, God forbid, died, it would tear me up - not because I made a bad decision, but because he's my son and I love him and I'd hate like heck for anything to happen to him.
Maine, you're exactly right. A lot of people don't understand the sport, so they can't comprehend anyone going into such a "dangerous" environment. That's fine, but i don't want them imposing their lack of understanding and their unfounded fear on me and how I raise my son.
I really have enjoyed this debate with everyone. Hopefully we'll all take something away from it. Great forum - I just found it a couple of weeks ago.
I used to be a scuba instructor as a hobby. My last dive was with a recent student (there were other certified divers on the trip as well). Because i was with a new diver, we took it very carefully - not as deep as everyone else, not down as long, longer safety stops coming up. I got bent, bad. Couldn't walk for a couple of weeks, couldn't pee for a day and a half, etc. Gradually it all came back, though i still have a tiny bit of numbness in my left leg. My doctor explained I got "hit" in the part of my spine that controls bladder function, sexual function, walking; but that the spine and nerves have a lot of duplication, which is why I got back to where I am. He also said that I could probably dive again and be perfectly fine, but if I got bent again, there was a greater chance I would get damaged in the same spot, and I had already used of the duplication of the nerves. I loved diving, absolutely loved it, but it wasn't that important to me.
I have, however, encouraged anyone who expressed an interest in scuba to go for it. If my son expressed an interest, I'd encourage him as well. I'd teach him what I could, and make sure he learned from others, try my best to make sure he understands the risks and is ready to deal with any problems. Then I'd pat him on the back and say, "If you really want to do this, I think you're ready. Be carefull and Enjoy!!!" Then I'd enjoy sharing stories with him. If he got injured or, God forbid, died, it would tear me up - not because I made a bad decision, but because he's my son and I love him and I'd hate like heck for anything to happen to him.
Maine, you're exactly right. A lot of people don't understand the sport, so they can't comprehend anyone going into such a "dangerous" environment. That's fine, but i don't want them imposing their lack of understanding and their unfounded fear on me and how I raise my son.
I really have enjoyed this debate with everyone. Hopefully we'll all take something away from it. Great forum - I just found it a couple of weeks ago.
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