Why learn to Navigate?

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Levin

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Apr 7, 2007
163
Hunter 340 San Diego
Hello all...

I was reading a thread where a member asked about buying an new GPS system. In that thread Roger Long mentioned that the individual in question should save himself some money, buy some charts, and just learn proper old-school navigation.

This got me thinking about my own lack of navigation experience without a GPS, and brought up a few questions that I wanted to throw out there. So I figured rather than hijacking that thread I would pose them here:

In my five years of owning my boat I have never once picked up a paper chart. I have sailed all over the Southern California waterways from the Coronado Islands to Catalina, to Santa Barbra Island, and in all that time I have never once made use of any traditional navigation skills. I also don't feel that I need any traditional navigation skills and would refuse to learn if anyone tried to teach me. I do have two different GPSs on my boat, one that runs of the 12volt system and one that is charged off the system but has it's own battery if everything else on the boat went dead. Before I would buy any paper charts I might buy yet another GPS and keep that on board as well... you know "Just in case"

In my mind it is highly unlikely that both of the GPSs are going to fail. It is also equally unlikely that the GPS satellite system is going to fail for anything short of Armageddon (and if that happens I have bigger issues). I also think that on the whole the GPS is going to be more accurate than I could ever be with a pencil and paper, even if I did learn to chart on my own. Therefore, I can see no reason for learning old school skills in our modern world other than perhaps out of curiosity... but I know there are many other opinions out there other than mine.

So what does the rest of the board think? Is there any merit in old navigational skills other than wanting to claim one is salty enough to know how to use a sextant?

Take care,
-Levin
 

Ross

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Jun 15, 2004
14,693
Islander/Wayfairer 30 sail number 25 Perryville,Md.
Levin,

I can give you a good answer with a simple question. How do/can you know what lays along your route from point "A" to point "B" if you don't have the overall picture. Down load and print this chart of the area from San Diego to Santa Rosa. Spread all of the pages out on the table and view the whole at one time . http://ocsdata.ncd.noaa.gov/BookletChart/18740_BookletChart_HomeEd.pdf
This chart covers 22 pages and you can't possibly get that kind of detail and continuity with a gps screen.
 
Jun 7, 2007
515
Hunter 320 Williamsburg
Why indeed

I teach a sailing course, and every year a guy says the same thing about charts.
I borrow his GPS, take out one battery and give it back. "Now try it."
 
May 25, 2004
958
Hunter 260 Pepin, WI
I learned to navigate prior to GPS being available. I find that when I have a GPS onboard I don't do "old school" navigation.

I do find that I reference a chart constantly, even though I haven't plotted a course on it. I could zoom out on the GPS, but I really like seeing the big picture on a chart.

I also question it whenever sailors insist that GPS navigation should always be backed up with "real" navigation. Great skills to have, but if you can guarantee a GPS will always be available, are they needed? Every cruise guide I've owned gave me GPS points that accounted for current, so even that argument can be countered with the right documentation.
 

Gary_H

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Nov 5, 2007
469
Cal 2-25 Carolina Beach NC
I have a simple GPS SITEX GPS 90. I still have to plot the waypoints out on the chart first and then transfer to the GPS. Knowing basic chart navigation just seems like good insurance to me. even when I use my laptop chart plotter (seldom) sometimes you can see more of the overall picture on a paper chart than switching from screen to screen on the laptop.
 
Dec 4, 2008
264
Other people's boats - Milford, CT
I have to ask what you mean by "old school" navigation.

Do you know what color bouy to leave to port or starboard ?
Do you even try to look around and see what landmarks are there and remember where you are ?
 

Rick D

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Jun 14, 2008
7,132
Hunter Legend 40.5 Shoreline Marina Long Beach CA
I Can Understand Why You Don't

But, it would make me uncomfortable. I learned to sail offshore with just a compass. I didn't even have a knot meter for a DR. It added to the thrill to pick up a shoreline and find out you were somewhere you'd thought you'd be (and less so when you were not). It also helped to understand drift and current in real terms. I used a handbearing compass, and later, an radio directionfinder to triangulate to a chart. (Depthsounders weren't too helpful in the depths of SoCal for navigation except in close in fog) I agree with others that a chart gives you a wide view often missing in a chartplotter (which is why I now prefer my laptop).

So, certainly your call. However, it can be fun to check yourself and see how close you can get using simple triangulation on a chart and Dr's. On a long trip north, it will give you something to do to break up the trip. Think of it as creative useful entertainment
:D
 
Nov 22, 2008
3,562
Endeavour 32 Portland, Maine
I have never once made use of any traditional navigation skills. I also don't feel that I need any traditional navigation skills and would refuse to learn if anyone tried to teach me.
Well, that's California for you. It used to be "As Maine goes, so goes the nation." It's now "As California goes..." There was just a debate program on NPR today with the title "Is California the first failed state in the US?" (The "Yes" side won.)

Seriously though, where you sail does have a big influence on attitudes. Think about doing this trip I made last summer. I only saw more than 100 yards for about 45 minutes of the first four days / 175 miles:

http://www.rogerlongboats.com/2009August.htm

Even with the GPS and radar going, I was damn glad for situational awareness and feel for progress and course that can only be gained by having done a lot of paper navigation.
 
Nov 6, 2006
9,885
Hunter 34 Mandeville Louisiana
Navigation is great to know ! for land and air use as well as water..I learned in a small plane with nothing but a compass for reference. As was stated previously, the charts give you a better “picture” in your head before you have to deal with something instead of having to look it up as you are dealing with a challenge.. things like a dredge in the pass.. a barge tow using a little more channel than you would like. Can ya get out of the channel where you are to give him space or do ya have to do something else?? After looking at the chart the night before, you’d have a better idea about that.. You can pencil in a note about a buoy out of location on the paper chart after ya read it in the Notice to Mariners.. the note will be there when ya get close and remember to not run aground.. Yes I have raster charts on the laptop, but there is a paper chart (maybe not the most current) that has notes on it for reference..I use a chartplotter at the helm, but I have had two instances in the past two years where I’d have been aground had I followed the GPS instead of what I saw and knew. Think about Captn' Sullenberger.. had he had his nose in the GPS, the story might have been a bit different ..
 

Levin

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Apr 7, 2007
163
Hunter 340 San Diego
Skills that are antiquated

Hello again...

I can see the argument for bigger charts that are easier to read... however in my mind that means I just need a bigger chartplotter (and perhaps a bigger salary to afford it... but that's beside the point). I just don't see how anything is gained by learning to navigate in the modern world other than being able to seem more "salty" which isn't something I care that much about.

In response to Deadline: Why would the batteries be out of my GPS... and like I said in my original post I strongly believe in having backups so I carry two and might one day go up to as many as three. (I would certainly go up to three if I ever planned a longer trip offshore).

In response to Todd: Yes- "Red Right Returning"- I certainly know the basic navigational rules of the road, but that's not what is meant by old school. Old school means knowing how to plot a course on a paper, triangulate, and other navigational skills that have been made obsolete by the advent of GPS.

Basically I threw this post up as a way to see what others thought. I have no intention of changing my mind but I wanted to see how many more people felt as I feel or how many people think I'm just a nut job for not knowing these things and heading off into the open ocean anyway.

Thanks everyone for the feedback.

-Levin
 
Jan 25, 2007
286
Cal Cal 33-2 cape cod
Blaphemy!

I'm assuming the question was rhetorical. Navigation is part of the fun and challenge. Why not just get a motorboat? They're faster, easier, and cost less.

Pocket signal jammers render all blue-tooth, internet, GPS, cell phone, cordless phone signals useless. It's the size of a cell phone and will wipe out an entire room.

With a bigger unit, ect, Armageddon not needed to drop signals. Satellites are not 100% (flares, space debri's, gov't,) Loran is currently being phased out, do yourself a favor, learn to navigate.
 

Attachments

Oct 2, 2006
1,517
Jboat J24 commack
Well

At least one of the recent FATAL groundings during races was due in large part to over reliance on gizmos
 

Levin

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Apr 7, 2007
163
Hunter 340 San Diego
More thoughts

Another side note (just thought of this): I think one of the reasons that people so fiercely defend the importance of knowing how to navigate even though GPS has well since made it obsolete is because it used to be a right of passage years ago. I’m sure 50 years ago you didn’t dare get out into the middle of the ocean without these skills because there was no chance you were coming back. This made the sea-going sorts gilded in a sense. If you wanted to be one of them then you had to learn the skill, and if not then you had to turn to one of them for advice or guidance.

People have always resented when technological advances make it easier for others to do what it took them years to learn and perfect. People don’t like it when their elite communities are invaded by others simply because some gadget made it easier for them to do what had once taken tons of practice, patience, and planning. When only a few people can do something we look to them with respect and awe, but when anyone can do that thing it loses its mystique. I think that is what is happening here with the GPS and “old school” navigation. And it my mind this is also why people defend so illogically the need for everyone to have these skills even though they can be done by a computer with much more precision and much faster.

Now again in my mind there is a difference between navigation and situational awareness. One is knowing how to plot a course on a paper chart, to be able to do the computations necessary to tell where one is at any given moment in the ocean, and the other is knowing what is going on around your boat. Navigation can be done by a GPS- But that doesn’t mean that someone shouldn’t still be situationally aware. However being situationally aware (as far as I know) doesn’t take any knowledge of traditional navigational skills.

More food for thought

-Levin
 
Jan 22, 2008
1,483
Hunter 37 C sloop Punta Gorda FL
Re: Skills that are antiquated

I vote for nut job. Why on earth would you not want situational awareness. How can you be aware if you don't do Time, Speed, Distance, on your paper chart?
 

Ross

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Jun 15, 2004
14,693
Islander/Wayfairer 30 sail number 25 Perryville,Md.
Re: Skills that are antiquated

Levin,
If you know even the barest basics of navigation by the "old school" methods then you can get from here to there with a compass as long as you know where "here" is. Given only a chart, a compass and the most basic gps for latitude and longitude you should be able to sail to any place on the chart without any heartburn. On the chart the I referred you to, locate your home port and an off shore island of your choice. Draw a straight line from home to the island, move the slope of that line to the compass rose on the chart and you have the course to steer. It can be that simple.
 
Oct 11, 2009
98
Lazyjack Schooner Fairhope, AL
GPS is a great tool, but basically pretty much only tells you where you are and, to a lesser degree, where you are going (waypoints). But charts are invaluable for showing you obstructions between where you're at/going, alternatives to where you're going if you need to divert due to weather, etc., and depth info for places to avoid. I sailed in Southern California too for a number of years and agree that I didn't much refer to the charts out there when sailing line-of-sight to Catalina Island and in San Diego Bay - but only the charts warned me of of issues like the kelp beds off Point Loma and San Pedro. And now that I'm sailing in Western Florida and the Gulf of Mexico I'm finding a new set of problems like shallow depths, limestone ledges, etc. that the charts warn me about but my GPS unit doesn't reference. Beyond the point that I'd like a backup should my GPS fail, I think that using the charts is a part of good and prudent seamanship.
 
Jan 27, 2010
143
Oday 1971 23' Oday Pop Top Yet to be determined...
I'm just starting out and will be learning all I can, especially the old school way. I work in the IT field and there is no way in hell i'm placing all my eggs in that basket. Any computer/electronic device should be treated like that crazy uncle. He's alot of fun, mostly useful - but never trust him!!! People rely way to much on electronics...
 

caguy

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Sep 22, 2006
4,004
Catalina, Luger C-27, Adventure 30 Marina del Rey
I teach a sailing course, and every year a guy says the same thing about charts.
I borrow his GPS, take out one battery and give it back. "Now try it."
Only an idiot wouldn't carry backup batteries.
 
Dec 4, 2008
264
Other people's boats - Milford, CT
I hope that you guys never have your GPS position or the chart data be inaccurate by a couple of hundred feet while threading a narrow passage. I have been motoring down the ICW in the middle of the channel, while the GPS told me I was on land.

And there are some places on the planet where the GPS position on the chart might be off by several miles.
 
Feb 26, 2004
22,760
Catalina 34 224 Maple Bay, BC, Canada
But it's NOT "Old School" vs. GPS

That's where I think the whole premise of this discussion is incorrect.

It's NOT old vs new.

Even the GPS manuals say: "The prudent seaman will use more than one method for navigation" or something like that.

They just don't make a GPS or chartplotter screen big enough, Levin, to show stuff that a chart can show.

There was a parallel discussion on this board about raster vs vector charts, which indicates to me that data input can make even reasonably correct charts incorrct electronically.

We have "clear sailing" up here in Northern California, too, but I continue to use my charts, practice triangulation navigation, use my GPS primary (Garmin GPSMap 76Cx) and keep the secondary (old Magellan Blazer - no charts on it) on board and use it sometimes. I've sailed regularly here since 1983.

It's NOT either / or.

It should be both.

Actually, Levin, you're missing an important navigation tool.

It's worth my life and my boat and my guests and my family.

I'm more bummed about the darn USCG reports of vessels needing assistance that give the lat lon without saying: "That's five hundred yards south of Point Blount" too.
 
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