Need or Want ?

Prime Time · Jan 5, 2010

Two Issues here!

15 feet of chain is manageable with a bow roller, but how is your back? I have sailed my entire life until recently without a windlass. I have used electric windlasses in the caribbean on charter boats and like them. After 2 spine surgeries, my new to me boat has a windlass.

In terms of anchors, there is quite a bit written on this board about all the different anchors. That topic will usually bring out a lot of strong opinions! It is best to have an anchor larger than you need with more scope than recommended! In terms of type of anchor, look at the bottom conditions of where you will anchor and find anchors that excel in those conditions. Practical Sailor has done lots of testing.

Personally, I like to have different anchors on board, a Hi tensile Danforth, a CQR and a Bruce. My CQR is my working anchor.

CharlieCobra · Jan 5, 2010

I'd get a windlass. My Daughter and I dropped a 35 Lb CQR and 100' of 3/8" chain in what was supposed to be 60' of water for an excursion. It turned out to be 120' of water. Ya ever try to pull that much chain and the anchor when it's hanging straight down off the bow by hand? It wasn't fun at all.

Dave Groshong · Jan 5, 2010

I used to pull 80ft of 3/8 chain every time, then the rode, Charlie's right, not fun at all, but man was I in shape then!

zeehag · Jan 5, 2010

is why i use 5/16 on both my boats --is easier to muscle up than 3/8 and works just as well--i use 100 ft of it and on my ericson and for my formosa i have 300 ft on my main anchor-a cqr--with a windlass --and i have 100 ft for my danforth and my bruce is missing lol..needs to be replaced lol and its chain.....but i only use 5/16 chain..isnt gonna be as hard on the back and is easier to pull into the boat.......

Ross · Jan 6, 2010

Lacking a windlass but having a couple of two speed winches I spliced 30 feet of 3/8 line to a grab hook. With that I can winch my chain in from the deeps.

BobM · Jan 6, 2010

Ross, your idea is a good one. Now you just need one of those 28V 90 degree cordless drills with a head to fit the winch and bunch of batteries. You can power your anchor up and also use it to pull someone up the mast in a bosun's chair. They aren't cheap, but they are certainly cheaper than an electric windlass. The "official" version is $1000 (Winch Buddy)...but a 28V Milwaukee is $429 and the bit is about $40.

Ross · Jan 6, 2010

BobM said:
Ross, your idea is a good one. Now you just need one of those 28V 90 degree cordless drills with a head to fit the winch and bunch of batteries. You can power your anchor up and also use it to pull someone up the mast in a bosun's chair. They aren't cheap, but they are certainly cheaper than an electric windlass. The "official" version is $1000 (Winch Buddy)...but a 28V Milwaukee is $429 and the bit is about $40.

I would have to work harder and longer to get the money for the price of the motor and bit than I would to crank by hand.

Shooter II · Jan 6, 2010

Bob,
I got a DeWalt that does the job at HD less than $200
got the bit for $20

http://www.thecranker.com/

digby sailor · Jan 6, 2010

less chain more rode

I have a 30 foot hunter and anchor regularly and I have a 35 lb danforth 12 feet of 3/8 chain and about 90 feet or rode.I dont need a winlass I would recommend you shorten up your chain and lighten your load and that will save your wallet as well as your back.

Bob S · Jan 6, 2010

I have a 25# Mason Supreme with 60' 5/16 chain and 250' of nylon. I seldom anchor in more than 25' of water so pulling 25' of chain the 25# anchor hasn't been a problem. My problems have come when it's blowing 25-30kts with waves. It's a bear pulling the 10,000 lb boat over the anchor as I try directing the admiral in the right direction! It hasn't happen too often and we need more practice. Stu and Ross have suggested the chain hook to the winch trick. I rigged the chain hook to 30' of line. Now I need the snow to melt so I can get back to sailing and try it:dance:.

Eric M · Jan 6, 2010

I have 250' of 5/16" chain and on my primary with a Rocna and I use the windlass 100% of the time to retrieve this. My secondary which I use 80% of the time I anchor is 15' of 5/16" chain connected to rode for the remainder. I have never used the windlass to retrieve the secondary, but in waters over 40' it is quite a chore. Both primary and secondary anchors are 35#.

Moody Buccaneer · Jan 6, 2010

pkdailey4 said:
Is a windlass and a Rocna anchor a waste of money ? I don't anchor much. Or I should say didn't anchor much on Galveston bay when I was there. 12' of water and mud and really not to many desirable places to anchor but in SF bay Ive all ready seen some places I would be interested in overnighting at. I have a Fortess type anchor and 15' of chain which is about 70' too short for SF bay. Whats it like pulling up that much chain by hand ? I have a 32' boat and plan on doing quite a bit of coastal trips up and down California and Baja. What would be a good setup for me ? Ideas welcome.

Anything that is made easier get done more often.

In Mexico, you will be anchoring often. In some places the common practice is to anchor bow and stern.

Making what will be a daily chore while cruising into as little hassle as possible makes a windlass cost effective IMO.

What you have in SF bay and what you will see elsewhere down the coast are very different. Here in Mexico, Bruce types seem to be favoured as primary, Delta types second, and Fortress as lunch hooks/stern anchors. I don't see many CQR's. You will hear horror stories about any anchor you consider and passionate defense of every type by their owners. What works in sand might not work in loose mud or hard pack mud. Having more than one type of anchor is basic common sense. With a windlass, an anchor that lives on the roller while you are cruising can limit choices unless you are willing to change the setup to fit your anchor of choice.

If haven't read Latitude 38's First Timers Guide (link) you might enjoy it.

I lived in the SF Bay area for 25 years and anchored out maybe 5 times. Here in Mexico I anchor between 5 times a week and twice a day. Get the windlass.

Stu Jackson · Jan 6, 2010

Moody nailed it

If you're staying in the Bay, wander over and look at what I have on Aquavite. Rocna 10, 1/4 chain, 35 feet, no windlass. And we anchor out frequently (every other week sometimes). The 1/4 chain is easy to deal with, no back problems if you don't incorrectly retrieve the anchor (http://c34.org/bbs/index.php/topic,5064.0.html). This anchoring system was designed specifically for the Bay area, not for Mexico.

If you're really serious about going down the coast in the near future, set up for it now, or wait and pay twice.

A friend with a C34 has sailed down from Vancouver, BC, and reports here, reply #2: http://c34.org/bbs/index.php/topic,5270.0.html

Your Fortress would do OK in Clipper Cove and Horseshoe Cove and the Delta, but I wouldn't trust a fluke anchor in changing currents at China Camp or Paradise Cove.

Reply # 6 here discusses anchor system sizing: http://c34.org/bbs/index.php/topic,4990.0.html.

It's one of the two links in Reply #2 here: http://c34.org/bbs/index.php/topic,5307.0.html I recommend you read the other one, too, by Maine Sail, a great anchor selection discussion, also previously posted somewhere here and on hsi website, too.

Maine Sail · Jan 6, 2010

digby sailor said:
I have a 30 foot hunter and anchor regularly and I have a 35 lb danforth 12 feet of 3/8 chain and about 90 feet or rode.I dont need a winlass I would recommend you shorten up your chain and lighten your load and that will save your wallet as well as your back.

Digby,

How do you get to a 7:1 scope, when necessary, with only 102 feet of rode.

With 3 feet of bow chock height and 11.5 feet of water depth you've maxed out you're rode for a 7:1 scope ratio in under 12 feet of water, and that would have to be at high tide if you sail in tidal waters?

Here in Maine we also have high tides, but not nearly as high as the Bay of Fundy. Figuring a 10 foot tide and 102 feet of rode to hit a 7:1 you'd need to anchor in 1.5 feet of water at LOW TIDE so you would not go over the 11.5 foot depth at high tide. In a Hunter 30 that is pretty tough.

To look at it another way if you anchored in 12 feet of water at low tide and then had a 10 foot tide added on to this. You would have a total depth to the bottom of; 3+22=25 feet. Scope is measured from bow chock to the ocean bottom. If you anchored in this 12 foot location at low tide, at high tide you would have a what could be a dangerously low scope of about 4:1 if any wind came up.

PK,

Fortress anchors don't require lots of chain and can still hold extremely well. Unfortunately the Fortress does not have the greatest track record for re-setting well on wind or tidal shifts, I know this first hand because I have one.

While you don't "need" a new anchor & rode it may be a good "want" to at least add another anchor to the arsenal. Basic rules of thumb are a minimum of 1 times boat length for chain, but from my experience, the majority of boats go with 1.5 times to 2 times boat length in chain..

What it all boils down to is what will allow YOU to sleep well at night. If 12 feet of chain and a Fortress will do that, then I would vote to keep your current set up and spend the boat bucks elsewhere...

Stu Jackson · Jan 6, 2010

Good idea

Ross said:
Lacking a windlass but having a couple of two speed winches I spliced 30 feet of 3/8 line to a grab hook. With that I can winch my chain in from the deeps.

Reply #16 here shows how: http://c34.org/bbs/index.php/topic,4672.15.html

Stu Jackson · Jan 6, 2010

pkdailey4 said:
Hey Stu, How's the leg ?
PK

Gettin' much better, just put the alternator back in Aquavite with my son's help on Sunday. For the first time since August I have a working boat that I cn actually use! How neat.

Sure, give me a heads up when you're coming, hi to Diane and your son.

COOL · Jan 7, 2010

On that size boat, a windless is not a need to have,
It is just one more thing to break down and draw power(amps).
If you anchor infrequently, you can winch the anchor up
with one of the primaries, and not carry the weight penalty on the
bow when bashing to windward in large seas.

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