Fuel polisher questions

[Ken Honeycutt]

I've uploaded a picture of a fuel polisher project I started last winter. Some of it is still an abomination but although you can't notice, there are a couple of marine grade fuel lines on there ( the rest are just standard automotive lines I used for postioning the components). Question I have is does anyone know of a good marine grade fuel line clamp that will work on 3/8" marine grade fuel line? I'm not too keen on using the standard plumbing type hose clamp.

Also had a question on the Racor. Are plastic bowls considerded safe for marine use? (I'm afraid I know the answer to this:naughty I like the idea of being able to check the fuel condition but I also want to be safe and comply with whatever is considered suitable for marine use.

 

[Eddie7045]

Marine grade hose clamps are sold at a marine store

right? They are like the automotive clamps except that they are a more corrosion resistant alloy than the automotive ones.
You might talk to a marine supply store about the filter. There is a more stringen requirement about not having a plastic bowel when operating commercially. In that case you would replace the visual advantage with a dilegent maintainance schedule.

 

[Ron20324]

If the filter is in the engine compartment, it is supposed to have the metal bowl for fire safety. I don't know of any filters not in the engine compartment, but i'm sure there are some. See the West catalog page 602 for details.

 

[sailingdog]

Get the AWAB-brand stainless steel hose clamps. They don't have the perforations that other hose clamps do, are all stainless steel and have rounded up edges so they don't tend to cut into the hoses like regular hose clamps do.

If you're really paranoid about corrosion and failure—titanium hose clamps are available—if a bit pricey.

IIRC, Ron's correct about the metal bowl for the fuel filter.

 

[Hermit Scott]

That looks like a good system you have there. I have seen alot of posts on here about people getting in rough weather and their engines stall out. The general consensus is from the gunk in the tank that forms getting knocked loose and sucked up the dip tube.
I cleaned the 18 gal. aluminum tank really well. I made an access port and had it tigged in the top. I didn't get it installed though before it came time to move my boat. I used a $20, 6 gal. plastic tank from a marine store. It has a little fuel gague and the fuel line screwed right in. It is in the aft locker. I thought I would need the 18 gal. tank, however I motored my boat for 10 hours straight and only used about 2 gal. of gas.
I am considering not installing the 18 gal. aluminum because I am concerned that it will gunk up and then fail me when I need it most. I can easily look into the 6 gal. and if there is something growing in it I can throw it away and get a new one.

Are there any problems associated with using plastic tanks long term?

If I don't have a high speed polishing system like Ken has, how often do I need to open up the tank and check it out?

 

[sailingdog]

That looks like a good system you have there. I have seen alot of posts on here about people getting in rough weather and their engines stall out. The general consensus is from the gunk in the tank that forms getting knocked loose and sucked up the dip tube.

Of course, this only happens in diesel tanks, since the microorganism that causes the problem only grows along the diesel-water interface. If you keep your fuel tank free of water, then you won't have a problem with sludge generally.

I cleaned the 18 gal. aluminum tank really well. I made an access port and had it tigged in the top. I didn't get it installed though before it came time to move my boat. I used a $20, 6 gal. plastic tank from a marine store. It has a little fuel gague and the fuel line screwed right in. It is in the aft locker. I thought I would need the 18 gal. tank, however I motored my boat for 10 hours straight and only used about 2 gal. of gas.

You mean diesel, right? Most more recent sailboats are diesel powered, not gasoline powered. If your boat is powered by an Atomic 4, then you'll have a different set of worries.

I am considering not installing the 18 gal. aluminum because I am concerned that it will gunk up and then fail me when I need it most. I can easily look into the 6 gal. and if there is something growing in it I can throw it away and get a new one.

If you have the aluminum tank, not installing it is silly, provided you put a decent inspection hatch in the tank. If you have an inspection hatch, you can generally look in the tank and see if it is heading for a problem or not. You can also steam-clean the tank through the inspection hatch as necessary. BTW, you can't just throw away a plastic fuel tank if it has some fuel, sludge and water in it.. you have to dispose of the fuel properly.

Are there any problems associated with using plastic tanks long term?

Depends on the type of plastic.

If I don't have a high speed polishing system like Ken has, how often do I need to open up the tank and check it out?

Depends on how good the fuel you get is. If you buy at a place that has decent turnover, and fresh fuel, then it is just a matter of preventing water from getting in to the tank... as long as there is no water, you won't have the conditions for the sludge to grow. Using a good biocide in a clean tank as a prophylatic measure is good idea as well.

One other measure that can help is using a Baja type fuel filter funnel when taking on fuel at a location where the quality of the fuel is unknown or questionable.

BTW, using a biocide on a tank that is already heavily contaminated with sludge is just asking to replace fuel filters—since the sludge will die off and break apart and get sucked up into the fuel lines.

 

[seadaddler]

Racor 500 Filter????????

I added a Racor 500 with the plastic bowl and it has the drain on the bottom
of the bowl for draining any water,which way is open and closing,clockwise to tighten or what.
I don't want to over do it.
Nick

 

[Roger Long]

I've uploaded a picture of a fuel polisher project I started last winter.

You might want to look at my system:

http://home.roadrunner.com/~rlma/FOpolishing.htm

A season of testing has earned it a 100% satisfaction rating. It was designed with the help of our resident filter expert Rich H. I'm not familiar with the Fram filter you show so I'm curious, how do you change the element without all the fuel in it pouring out. Rich recommended the Shelco filter I'm using and I reccommend it for anyone else considering a polishing system. The elements are very cheap.

My conclusion after reading numerous pro and con items about the box to the right of your fuel pump is that they have a fantastic placebo effect. I'm still trying to find out something definitive or authoratative though.

I wouldn't worry about the plastic bowls. They wouldn't be permitted on a commercial vessel but neither would your plastic hoses that would melt about the same time. You can boil water in a paper cup. By the time any of these components melt in a fire, you are going to be dead or in your dinghy, liferaft, or the water 100 yards away. It's different in a metal boat where there is a chance of smothering the fire with the ventilation dampers also required but your plastic boat will burn quite merrily without any help from the fuel.

Is this a system intended to run whenever the engine is on? I consider that an essential function.

 

[jdamann]

Don't waste your money on the Alge X

I installed a very simple fuel polishing system on my Catalina 350. After lots of research I determined that AlgeX, and other devices like it, offer no value. Here are the materials and install instructions.

Fuel Polish System

After hearing about several horror stories from some of my sailing buddies about bad diesel fuel I decided to install a basic fuel polishing system on our Catalina 350.

Here is the list of materials:

- Racor 500G Fuel Filter – This is the same filter that is installed from the factory (eBay)
- 2 - Racor 13/16 UPT – 3/8” NPT adaptors (West Marine)
- 2 – 3/8” NPT Street ELs (Lowes)
- 2 – 3/8” NPT – 3/8” barb adaptors (Lowes)
- 2 – 1/4” NPT – 3/8” barb adaptors (Lowes)
- Carter Electric Fuel Pump P4389 – This is marine rated 12 volt / 72 GPH (eBay)
- 20 Feet of 3/8” Marine Fuel Line (West Marine)
- 6 – small stainless steel hose clamps (Lowes)
- 50’ of 16/2 wire (Lowes)
- Teflon Tape (Lowes)

As indicated above, the two most expensive parts I found on eBay for a total cost of $235.00, including tax and shipping. The rest were obtained for less than $75.00 from Lowes and West Marine.

First after assembling the fuel pump I installed it on the bulkhead that separates the fuel tank and the prop shaft using the hardware provided with the pump. You have to drill three 3/8” holes in the bulkhead (see photo). I then ran the 16/2 wire toward the back, around the stern locker and into the rear berth area. There is a wiring harness there already that you can piggy back all the way to the breaker panel. I powered the pump from one of the spare circuit breakers in the panel.

Next, I installed the fuel filter on the back side of the tray inside the port cockpit locker (see photo). I used a piece of old baseboard molting as a backer board to strengthen the support for the filter bracket. You will need to drill 2 – 3/8” holes to mount the filter. Thread the Racor adaptors to the filter (without Teflon Tape). Thread the 3/8” Street ELs to the Racor adaptors and then the 3/8” barb adaptors to the Street ELs (use Teflon Tape for these connections).

I did some research with Catalina and the fuel tank manufacturer to help me figure out which of the remaining taps on the tank (these are for a gen set) are source and return. I discovered the two most forward taps are supposed to be the source. My boat came with these connected to the engine so I had to do a little rearranging. Remove the threaded plugs from the two unused taps on the tank. Remove the fuel return line that is attached to the second tap (engine source is the one that is furthest forward). Remove the barb adaptor on tap number 2 and move to number 3 position and re attach the engine fuel return. Install the ¼” NPT – 3/8” barb adaptors onto tap number 2 and 4 ( use Teflon Tape on all of these connections ).

Attach a 9’ piece of fuel line from tap number 2 to the input side of the fuel filter. Attach an 8’ piece of fuel line from the output side of the filter to the input side of the fuel pump. Attach the remaining piece of fuel line from the output side of the pump to tap number 4. Secure all connections with a hose clamp.

The last step is to prime the system. I filled the filter with fuel, re sealed to lid and started the pump. I had to repeat several times but it did eventually work.

I plan to run this system periodically and monitor the condition of the filter and the fuel in the inspection bowl. One thing to realize about the original primary filter installed on the C350. While it is a Racor 500G, there is not enough volume and/or pressure from the engine fuel pump to take full advantage of the Racor turbo action.

This was a relatively easy system to install. Once I had all the parts the total install time was less than four hours. I hope this will remove any risk of clogged fuel filters on the engine.

 

[Ken Honeycutt]

Appreciate the feedback

Thanks sailingdog for the info on the hose clamps. I was able to find them at http://www.go2marine.com/product.do?no=84923F. Thats what I was looking for as the perforated style clamps have the sharp edges and I didn't want the 'tail' from the perforated style - if I double clamp there is a chance that the clamps will overlap the hose barb (I'm still debating whether to double or single clamp - those suckers are expensive - thinking that one AWAB will be enough).

Roger,
That looks like a good system, a little simpler than mine. I believe the Frantz filter will work similarly to the Shelco filter but after seeing your setup I wish I had known about the Shelco. The Frantz uses toilet paper as the filter medium. The article I referenced used a Gulf Coast filter which has been discontinued but also used toilet paper as the filter. A Gulf Coast representative recommended the Frantz filter. It could be a bear to change out the Frantz filter, something I'm concerned about.

jdamann,

I had thought about the Racor turbine filter and I'm still wondering if maybe that was the way to go. Have you checked out Racors new catalog. Looks like they've changed all their filter designations. They've got a new style filter with a built in electric priming pump. I'm thinking this would be a good replacement filter for someone looking to upgrade their system. I couldn't find any information on the 500 G series.

Seadaddler, I'll check my filter this weekend and get back to you on the drain.

 

[Ken Honeycutt]

Re: Appreciate the feedback

Not sure about the AlgeX either - have read both good and bad but I figured it couldn't hurt.

 

[sailingdog]

Glad to help Ken.

 

[Hermit Scott]

With all respect to you Ken the idea of running fuel around some magnets sounds like snake oil to me. The web site claims that fuel molecules are attaching themselves to each other to form such macro formations that it is clogging up fuel filters. lol
Well I can gaurantee you that it won't hurt anything, it would be cool if you did an "Maine Sail type independent study" of it to see if you notice a difference.

My investor has auto repair centers, it sounds like one of the things they would say to get people's money. 'The engine is a big air pump. Alot of air goes through it and that can cause a buiild up of static electricity and sometimes damages the electronics. It's good to replace them every now and then.'

 

[ITMaster]

... A Gulf Coast representative recommended the Frantz filter. It could be a bear to change out the Frantz filter, something I'm concerned about.

From what I see here Ken, it looks like you have just laid out the system for pictorial purposes.

Perhaps, you may be able to mount the Frantz (if you don't take it back for a refund and go with the Shell) orientated 180 degrees, from the way it is in the picture, so that the filter canister and element are in a downward position. Then, you should be able to put a container like a cutout empty gallon milk bottle under it, break it loose and pull it and the used toilet paper aside to change out with little mess and clean up.

Just an observation from a different set of eye balls

 

[Hermit Scott]

My engine is diesel. Look at my myspace link, you can see the tank. The tank mounts behind the companion way ladder. It has to slide forward under a fiberglass part. I won't be able to take the access port off with out unbolting the tank and sliding it back a foot or so.

Ken, can you drain your tank from the lowest point, or is the 'drain' you are using for the fuel polishing system coming from the dip tube? You could make it so much more effective if you could pull the fuel from the lowest point in the tank. That way you will get any water and maybe critters living in the water. Also in newer, better water heaters the inlet for cold water makes a jet of water circulate around the bottom to not allow any sediment build up. If you could make the inlet back into the tank at the bottom so it would circulate the fuel around down there to make sure nothing is making a home in there. The inlet(fuel return) can be another dip tube that extends from the top with a 90 degree bend in it to cause circulation along the bottom.
If you pull fuel from the dip tube(the one that goes to the engine) and just drop it back in at the top, you could leave the bottom of the tank relatively undisturbed.
However you still want your dip tube(for the engine) drawing from a higher point from the bottom like it was designed.

I'm not a sailing expert at all. But I am kind of a motor head and an engineer. The engines are about the only thing I feel comfortable working on on my boat really. But these guys have a brazillion more times experience with these engines. I'm sure what I am saying has already been doen by a few of the guys on here if it's a good idea.

 

[RichH]

"Drains" on marine fuel tanks are contrary to USCG and ABYS, etc. regs.

Other comments on 'Recirculation filtration systems":

The USA standard configuration for filters (1-100µM) is 2.5" or 2.75" diameter X multiples of either 10" or 9-3/4". Dont get 'locked in' to proprietary (hard to find and expensive) non-standard sizes.

Toilet paper, paper towels, etc. are simply not good filter devices. The cellulose fibers in these 'filters' is NOT 'bound' together .... hence such 'filters' release much of their captured debris upon increasing differential pressure across the 'filter'; the cellulose in these 'products' is made to DIGEST in the presence of water - becomes a slurry of digested cellulose and the digested cellulose 'releases' into the fluid stream.

A recirculation polishing system depends more on 'turnover' (high pumping rates) than filter retention .... any filter (even compressed pubic hair) will have a/some statistical removal efficiency at very low µM sizes. Flow an immense amount of liquid over and over through the filters and mathematical statistics dictate that you eventually will capture most of the particles ... all due to the MANY MANY times the fluid passes through the filter. A recirculation filter in this mode (high turnover) will be 5 to 10X (or more) larger in µM size that the 'target' size you desire to retain. The benefit is that a filter that is 5 or 10X larger in µM rating will typically have 5 to 10X the 'flow rate' (per unit of differential pressure) ... and will be much cheaper than the 'target' µM filter. If you choose a filter that is 'close' to the target µM, it will restrict the flow and you will never reach the desired 'dilution' of particles IN the tank. *HIGH FLUID TURNOVER* rate is what makes a recirculation polisher effective. A recirculation polisher depends on the 'exponential particle decay' in the tank as massive amounts of fluid are continually passed over and over through the filters .... you have to 'dilute' the numbers of particles that are in the tank.

I like 1-3 gallons per MINUTE of 'turnover' per 100 gallons of tankage ... where the engine 'draws' .5-1 gallon per HOUR.

 

[Ken Honeycutt]

ITmaster - good idea - I'll take a look at it - thanks!

Hermit - good points - the way the system is now, the fuel returns via a fuel return line from the engine. I'm not sure where the entry point is on the tank (never looked). When the system is in polishing mode there should be a pretty good stream that would keep the bottom stirred up depending on where the return line is positioned..at the bottom of the tank would be ideal.

 

[Ken Honeycutt]

Rich,

Would I be better off with a Racor turbine style filter. I'll have to check but I believe the fuel pump is rated at better than 3 GPM.

 

[MoonSailer]

Fresh Fuel???? Would not a better fuel management system negate the need for fuel polishing???? Keep less fuel in the tank so that fuel is fresher. Maybe a 6 month supply at most. I keep about 1/4 tank which is about 5 gallons. Storing fuel for years and trying to clean it seems like the hard way to manage fuel.

 

[Ken Honeycutt]

That's a good question Moon. I guess in my case since I bought the boat with a full tank it would take me at least 2 to 3 seasons to get down to 5 gallons in the tank. The other problem is my paranoia about never running out of fuel or being in a situation where I need fuel and can't get to the marina where they sell it.