Help Me Understand The Basics Of Boat Battery Charging

jssailem

SBO Weather and Forecasting Forum Jim & John
Oct 22, 2014
23,727
CAL 35 Cruiser #21 moored EVERETT WA
:plus: "switching over to LiFePo is feasible before sailing off into the wild blue yonder"

Well, maybe the vast Ocean waters. LiFePO4 batteries are a means of concentrating more power into a smaller and lighter package. Smaller and lighter means you can carry more stuff in the limited space of your boat.

The "into the wild blue yonder" is a phrase from the Army Air Corps song of the late 30's.
  • Off we go into the wild blue yonder... flying high into the sky...
 
Sep 8, 2025
125
Bayfield 36 Lewisporte
:plus: "switching over to LiFePo is feasible before sailing off into the wild blue yonder"

Well, maybe the vast Ocean waters. LiFePO4 batteries are a means of concentrating more power into a smaller and lighter package. Smaller and lighter means you can carry more stuff in the limited space of your boat.

The "into the wild blue yonder" is a phrase from the Army Air Corps song of the late 30's.
  • Off we go into the wild blue yonder... flying high into the sky...
Its the aviation side of me "Per Ardua Ad Astra" :)
 
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Jan 4, 2006
7,408
Hunter 310 West Vancouver, B.C.
Anybody who goes to a lithium based system taking full advantage of what they do best, will never even consider going back to lead acid batteries.
Then label me a Luddite for today.

Maybe I'll look at the theory and cost of conversion sometime during the winter. I'm due for a LA battery replacement this coming year at 8 YO so that can be factored in.

However, that's only a possible maybe unless something more interesting comes up.
 
Oct 26, 2008
6,359
Catalina 320 Barnegat, NJ
Yes, that is from ne (the OP). Just trying to determine if switching over to LiFePo is feasible before sailing off into the wild blue yonder :)
I'll suggest that if you plan to live on your boat in the wild blue yonder, your entire electrical system may be woefully inadequate. I don't know if you have previously described all your electrical components, but it will be difficult for anybody to address your needs if we don't know what you currently have or plan to upgrade. Do you have solar that functions adequately? What kind of A.C. charger do you have and do you plan to upgrade? If you rely entirely on a small OEM alternator with internal regulator, your batteries may be chronically undercharged because the engine has not ever run long enough at any time to fully charge the batteries (or it may not even be possible). Undercharged LA batteries die quickly.

I'm going to suggest that if your plans materialize, you will need to upgrade your entire electrical system and that should include LiFePo batteries.

You indicated in a previous post that your "start" battery is wired to Input 1 and the "house bank" is wired to Input 2. Bear in mind that the output to the starter and the house panel is stacked on a single output post on the back of the switch. That means that your starter and house loads are always connected together only at the output side. And because the alternator output is typically back-fed through the starter cable (going back to the output post), the way the batteries are charged depends on the switch position when the engine is running. That means that if the switch is on Position 1 while the engine is running, only the battery connected to 1 is being charged. The batteries on Position 2 may not be getting any charge because they are isolated on the input side of the switch.

A lot depends on the way the P.O. and/or you have used the switch. If it is set on 1 only while running the engine and set on 2 only when anchored, the house bank may be neglected. The house bank would quickly go dead, so I suppose you may be running the engine on Position 2 or ALL enough to keep the house bank alive. The problem is that we don't know your usage behavior well enough to comment adequately.
 
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Sep 8, 2025
125
Bayfield 36 Lewisporte
I'll suggest that if you plan to live on your boat in the wild blue yonder, your entire electrical system may be woefully inadequate. I don't know if you have previously described all your electrical components, but it will be difficult for anybody to address your needs if we don't know what you currently have or plan to upgrade. Do you have solar that functions adequately? What kind of A.C. charger do you have and do you plan to upgrade? If you rely entirely on a small OEM alternator with internal regulator, your batteries may be chronically undercharged because the engine has not ever run long enough at any time to fully charge the batteries (or it may not even be possible). Undercharged LA batteries die quickly.

I'm going to suggest that if your plans materialize, you will need to upgrade your entire electrical system and that should include LiFePo batteries.

You indicated in a previous post that your "start" battery is wired to Input 1 and the "house bank" is wired to Input 2. Bear in mind that the output to the starter and the house panel is stacked on a single output post on the back of the switch. That means that your starter and house loads are always connected together only at the output side. And because the alternator output is typically back-fed through the starter cable (going back to the output post), the way the batteries are charged depends on the switch position when the engine is running. That means that if the switch is on Position 1 while the engine is running, only the battery connected to 1 is being charged. The batteries on Position 2 may not be getting any charge because they are isolated on the input side of the switch.

A lot depends on the way the P.O. and/or you have used the switch. If it is set on 1 only while running the engine and set on 2 only when anchored, the house bank may be neglected. The house bank would quickly go dead, so I suppose you may be running the engine on Position 2 or ALL enough to keep the house bank alive. The problem is that we don't know your usage behavior well enough to comment adequately.
Hi,

My problem as well, as I have never used the boat in any capacity yet and won't be able to for the next 6 mnths as it is out of the water. Ideally, I suspect, I will be putting in ~ 400AmpHrs of LiFePo for the house + 100AmpHr La for starting. Sounds like it is not a simple affair and will most likely be needing an electrician if I can't figure out the safe way to get this all connected. I only have a 100watts of solar (thats the first thing I wanted to upgrade to 400watts - of course for that I need to build an "arch" of some sort to support it). I don't think the OEM Hitachi 55A alternator will be suitable and will probably have to upgrade that to at least 100A?

As an aside, is that "smart" Victron DC-DC charger a good way to charge your LiPo's from the LA battery? I guess I'd be lowering the charging rate down to about 20Amps if I still have the 50A alternator?

Oh yeah, there is a 1000w inverter but it is not connected but I think I would want at least a 2000w inverter for AC anyways...so thats on the list as well :)
 
Jan 11, 2014
13,385
Sabre 362 113 Fair Haven, NY
As an aside, is that "smart" Victron DC-DC charger a good way to charge your LiPo's from the LA battery? I guess I'd be lowering the charging rate down to about 20Amps if I still have the 50A alternator?
If you are planning a long term long distance cruise, this is not the arrangement you want because it does not take advantage of LFP battery's ability to accept a high charge current. This means longer engine run times to recharge the batteries. Longer run times burn up a lot of fuel and running a diesel at low rpms for long periods of time is bad for diesels.

Just do the math, assume 100ah per day of consumption. Relying on the DC-DC converter it will take 5 hours of engine run time to recharge the battery at 20a. However, using a 100a alternator running at a conservative 50a, it will only take 2 hours.

For a LFP battery system, the most efficient system is to have all charging sources and the house batteries tied together at the main DC + bus bar. This includes all solar, alternator, and shore chargers. The start battery is charged with a small DC-DC charger or FET combiner. (personally, I like the DC-DC charger more than the FET based device because the charger can programmed to your battery's needs and more easily monitored.)

Attached is a simple one-line schematic of the electrical system on my boat. Note, fuses and DC- cables are omitted for simplicity. This system worked well for us over 2 years of live aboard cruising. There is one change, the cable from the LFP On/off switch should go to the bus bar directly and the cable from the bus bar should go directly to the Dual Circuit switch.

1763238278323.png
 
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Jan 4, 2006
7,408
Hunter 310 West Vancouver, B.C.
Just do the math, assume 100ah per day of consumption. Relying on the DC-DC converter it will take 5 hours of engine run time to recharge the battery at 20a.
Do you still use an external alternator regulator to control the charging rate of the alternator ? I imagine they require a max. bulk charging voltage and you couldn't allow an internally regulated alt. to choose its own maximum voltage.
 
Jan 11, 2014
13,385
Sabre 362 113 Fair Haven, NY
Do you still use an external alternator regulator to control the charging rate of the alternator ? I imagine they require a max. bulk charging voltage and you couldn't allow an internally regulated alt. to choose its own maximum voltage.
Yes, a programable external regulator is necessary as the max charge voltage is usually around 14.2 and the OEM alternators are about 14.4.

It take a bit to get one's head around an LFP system, but once you do, it is all pretty simple, just different enough from LA systems to make people confused.
 
Sep 8, 2025
125
Bayfield 36 Lewisporte
Yes, a programable external regulator is necessary as the max charge voltage is usually around 14.2 and the OEM alternators are about 14.4.

It take a bit to get one's head around an LFP system, but once you do, it is all pretty simple, just different enough from LA systems to make people confused.
How do you disable the IR of the OEM alternator....or is it somehow negated by the external regulator?
 
Jan 4, 2006
7,408
Hunter 310 West Vancouver, B.C.
OEM alternators are about 14.4.
My original Hitachi ex. reg. was 14.2V max. and never got much over 80% SOC with about 2-3A still going into the battery. At 14.2V I don't think it would ever approach 100% SOC. The ARS-5 takes it right up to 100% SOC at 14.7V by the end of a day of motoring.
 
Sep 8, 2025
125
Bayfield 36 Lewisporte
The alternator has to be opened up and the regulator removed or disconnected. I've never done this, @Ralph Johnstone has, perhaps he can explain in more detail.
I suspect it makes more sense to just buy another alternator that requires an external regulator. I'm guessing thats going to be about $1,500 for both :(
 
Jan 4, 2006
7,408
Hunter 310 West Vancouver, B.C.
I've never done this, @Ralph Johnstone has, perhaps he can explain in more detail.
I've HAD it done but a little above my pay grade so I farmed it out to someone who quite some time ago. About $75.00 but not much more at an automotive electrical shop. This is what I got back and a printed sheet as to how to wire it to the regulator :

1763257651990.jpeg
 
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Jan_H

.
Aug 17, 2009
33
2 26 Midland
Further to @BigEasy ‘s question re the internal Hitachi regulator, I was contemplating something similar a while back and found this HITACHI LR160-741 EINBAUANLEITUNG Pdf-Herunterladen on the Sterling website for ‘hacking’ a Hitachi LR-160 alt for an external regulator (helps if you read German, but easy enough to follow if you don’t). However, it also got me thinking (and alluded to on the Sterling website) that an easier route might be a DC-DC charger. These typically accept an input voltage down to ~13V and output a charge profile for a variety of battery types. Since the Hitachi internal regulator decreases its nominal 14.4V output voltage by 10mV per degree C, that would easily leave a high enough voltage for the DC-DC charger to operate at an alternator temperature of 100C. However, this also got me thinking about the stability of this system, since the regulator output voltage reduction with increasing temperature is meant to protect the alternator by reducing the output current (the current is what causes the alternator to heat up, actually proportional to the square of the current). But since the DC-DC charger draws more current as its input voltage decreases (to maintain the same output power), this is exactly the opposite of what the regulator voltage reduction ‘strategy’ is designed to achieve. I think that the alternator/regulator and DC-DC charger should come to a stable state if the alternator output and DC-DC charger output currents are properly matched, but suspect that things could go wrong if not…..
 
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Jun 21, 2004
3,045
Beneteau 343 Slidell, LA
After researching conversion of a Hitachi internally regulated alternator to an externally regulated alternator, I have decided to not proceed with that modification. I read @Jan_H ‘s link for the Sterling conversion. Not really concerned about the difficulty. (I recently rebuilt my Hitachi & replaced the diodes, rectifier, & regulator modules). I am concerned about altering the designed operational & output parameters of the alternator. The build of that alternator does not include heavy duty windings nor does it have dual cooling fans that are found in true marine alternators. If I purchase a new externally regulated alternator package including a regulator & temperature monitoring cables, I would be out of pocket approximately $400 more vs modifying the Hitachi & adding an external regulator. I don‘t want to risk any problems by running the Hitachi over & above its design limits.
 
Jan 11, 2014
13,385
Sabre 362 113 Fair Haven, NY
The last couple of posts by @Jan_H and @Big Easy are alluding to the notion that the battery and alternator form a subsystem of the boat's electrical system. Hacking a Hitachi alternator works for @Ralph Johnstone because he has a relatively small LA battery bank of about 150-200ah. (Can't remember if he has 2 Group 27s or Group 31s.) His max output of 37a is in the right range for the Group 31s which like to be charged at .2C or about 20a per battery and a tad high if he has Group 27s (.2C for 150ah is 30a). It also works because LA batteries will be self-limiting, as the SOC goes up, resistance goes up, and amperage goes down while maintaining a constant voltage. Once the current starts to decrease, alternator temperature will also start to decrease. For the kind of sailing he does, it works.

If Ralph were to install a large (400ah) bank the system would work less well because the loads on the alternator would remain high for much longer. The Hitachi is just not built to sustain that kind of use. The output would also be low in relation to the charge acceptance rate for the LFP batteries at around .1C. LFP batteries can be charged at a much higher rate of .4C or higher. The charge curve for LFP batteries is also quite flat thus the alternator would be subject to maximum loads for longer time periods potentially damaging the alternator, unless the regulator takes into account alternator temperature and ramps down the output thereby extending charge time.

Second Star has 300ah of LFP batteries and a 170a Balmar alternator with a serpentine belt. The output is temperature compensated to keep the alternator below 90°C. The field current is limited to reduce the max output when the alternator is cold to about 100a. At 90° the output drops to around 70-80a until the batteries are fully charged. Our engine room is not well ventilated and is very small so derating the alternator to keep its temperature at a safe level is necessary.

Alternator temperature and controlling output is vitally important for the alternator's longevity. Last year a technician damaged the temp sensor which allowed the alternator to overheat damaging the diodes and rectifier. Needless to say, I was not a happy camper when I discovered my batteries were at 20% SOC one morning after motoring for a couple of days. My wallet was even less happy as I sprung for another $1200 for a new alternator.
 
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Oct 26, 2008
6,359
Catalina 320 Barnegat, NJ
I suspect it makes more sense to just buy another alternator that requires an external regulator. I'm guessing thats going to be about $1,500 for both :(
You should make your decisions based on your usage. The previous owner of my boat kept his boat in a mooring field. He upgraded his alternator to 125 amp and installed an external regulator because his cruising typically involved a fair bit of motoring and he relied on his engine to keep the batteries charged. Also, he needed a charge to keep his fridge running while moored so he mounted solar panels on the bimini. He had a godawful ac charger because he had very limited use for one.

I keep the boat at a slip so I removed the solar panels (they were old, at end of life - and they simply put weight on the bimini fabric) and installed a good ac charger. I'm happy to have the alternator upgrade but I would never rely on the alternator to keep my batteries charged because for weeks at a time, I motor only about half-hour per outing. I completely rely on the charger and the health of my batteries, but my batteries now have over 10 years of service.

If you are going to rely on motoring, you absolutely need to upgrade your alternator and install an external regulator. If you are going to keep the boat at a shore-powered slip, you will be better served installing a good charger. I'll suggest that if you will be at a slip for a while before you take off for the wild blue, start with a good charger and plan on installing a new alternator/regulator before you need it.

I think there are some wiz-bang alternator/regulator combos out there that are the current favorites at the higher price tags (ARCO Zeus or Wakespeed to be specific). You could install these Balmar products and be worlds ahead of where you are now.



I'm not sure about the Series 6 as the case appears to be plastic, so I'm thinking about the xt series for myself. There was a discussion about carrying a spare alternator and I'm thinking about converting mine (age unknown) to the spare.

Since you have the winter to dive into this project, also install this: https://defender.com/en_us/balmar-smartlink-battery-monitor-kit-sg200

and this: https://defender.com/en_us/balmar-smartlink-optional-bluetooth-gateway-tether-sg2-0300

I've installed all these Balmar products and have been quite satisfied.

What? You bought the boat and thought that was going to be the only financial hardship?!? :laugh::laugh::laugh:
 
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dLj

.
Mar 23, 2017
4,728
Belliure 41 Back in the Chesapeake
It's really easy for us to spend your money. I'm not a big fan of all the bells and whistles, I like robust, as simple as possible, and as inexpensive as possible. This last one, inexpensive as possible, includes the long term costs of keeping the system running. I look at the cost over 10 years, not just the cost of putting a system in today. Those criteria, robust, simple, inexpensive, are highly dependent upon how one is going to sail. As @Scott T-Bird stated above, his sailing style to be in port hooked to shore power for much of his boats time. As @Ralph Johnstone has stated above, he mainly costal cruises and is often in port able to connect to shore power. Each of their stated systems work very well for how they sail. And the devices they recommend work very well for what they want to have for their boat.

You, @GeneraiT001, stated your desired sailing use is long term cruising. That is also what @dlochner has been doing. His responses have been directed towards that end.

I have setup my current sailboat also for long term cruising. When I bought my boat a number of years ago, I was working full time and did not have the spare time to delve into various aspects of setting up my boat for long term cruising - especially the conversion from lead acid to a lithium based based system. I am fairly knowledgeable about LA batteries and have been using those kinds of systems in sailboats for a long time. Many decades ago, I was taught how to maintain lead acid batteries by the head electrical engineer of the Hoover dam. Subsequently, I've had decades of practical experience running lead acid batteries on sailboats.

The single biggest cause of LA failures is sulfation. All of your lead acid battery chemistries are based on lead plates (or an alloy) and sulfuric acid (with various additives). The basic process is the metallic lead goes into ionic lead in solution (discharging) and then with a charging voltage applied the lead is redeposited as metallic lead back onto the plates (charging). However, there is a competing process where some of the ionic lead in solution combines with the available sulfur in the sulfuric acid solution and deposits onto the plates as lead sulfate. The lead tied up as lead sulfate no longer will participate in the charging/discharging cycle hence your battery looses capacity. Eventually your batteries are sufficiently degraded such that they no longer function. This process cannot be avoided, but it can be significantly reduced through the process of equalization. When do you need to do an equalization cycle? There is not a single answer to that - it depends on numerous variables. But a general rule of thumb is after any time your batteries have been discharged below about 75% of it's capacity. Now, how often is that on a sailboat?

Equalization should be done with both controlled voltage and current. A power supply that can control both current and voltage at the same time is difficult to build. I use a high end research grade power supply that can do both but that gets a bit complicated. There are a number of modern battery chargers that claim to have the ability to run all the different charging regimes ( see @dlochner 's post #4 above). What he didn't mention was equalization - but you began this thread asking for "simple"... However, when I have looked at these so called "smart chargers" I have rejected considering buying one. The equalization cycle they run is typically based on time, and that time frame is typically somewhere between and hour and 3 hours. That is grossly inadequate for an equalization cycle. An equalization cycle should be run for about 24 hours.

Now, before a bunch of folk start getting their panties in a wad about that statement - here is a direct quote from the standard IEEE 450 IEEE Recommended Practice for Maintenance, Testing, and Replacement of Vented Lead-Acid Batteries for Stationary Applications: "Note that an equalizing charge normally requires that equalizing voltage be applied continuously for 24 hours or longer." There is no way you are going to be able to properly do this in an offshore sailboat.

In my opinion, you should simply discard the idea of charging your LFP batteries through a LA battery. It is not the correct solution for your sailing desires.

Also, going to 400 amp hour LFP - your current alternator is inadequate. At a very minimum you need to convert it to an externally regulated system but you really would be better served by going to a larger alternator with a serpentine belt. Again, I'm going to recommend you get a subscription to Attainable Adventures by John Harries - he has just done an evaluation of alternators that you would really benefit from reading, along with the tons of other information that would be very useful for you....

dj
 
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Sep 8, 2025
125
Bayfield 36 Lewisporte
You should make your decisions based on your usage. The previous owner of my boat kept his boat in a mooring field. He upgraded his alternator to 125 amp and installed an external regulator because his cruising typically involved a fair bit of motoring and he relied on his engine to keep the batteries charged. Also, he needed a charge to keep his fridge running while moored so he mounted solar panels on the bimini. He had a godawful ac charger because he had very limited use for one.

I keep the boat at a slip so I removed the solar panels (they were old, at end of life - and they simply put weight on the bimini fabric) and installed a good ac charger. I'm happy to have the alternator upgrade but I would never rely on the alternator to keep my batteries charged because for weeks at a time, I motor only about half-hour per outing. I completely rely on the charger and the health of my batteries, but my batteries now have over 10 years of service.

If you are going to rely on motoring, you absolutely need to upgrade your alternator and install an external regulator. If you are going to keep the boat at a shore-powered slip, you will be better served installing a good charger. I'll suggest that if you will be at a slip for a while before you take off for the wild blue, start with a good charger and plan on installing a new alternator/regulator before you need it.

I think there are some wiz-bang alternator/regulator combos out there that are the current favorites at the higher price tags (ARCO Zeus or Wakespeed to be specific). You could install these Balmar products and be worlds ahead of where you are now.



I'm not sure about the Series 6 as the case appears to be plastic, so I'm thinking about the xt series for myself. There was a discussion about carrying a spare alternator and I'm thinking about converting mine (age unknown) to the spare.

Since you have the winter to dive into this project, also install this: https://defender.com/en_us/balmar-smartlink-battery-monitor-kit-sg200

and this: https://defender.com/en_us/balmar-smartlink-optional-bluetooth-gateway-tether-sg2-0300

I've installed all these Balmar products and have been quite satisfied.

What? You bought the boat and thought that was going to be the only financial hardship?!? :laugh::laugh::laugh:
Hi, Thanks

Thats what I was looking at - XT-SF-170-DV-KIT :) How can I figure out the spindle or saddle size for a Yanmar 4JHE motor? The "DV" seems to be for a 1-2" spindle?
 
Jan 11, 2014
13,385
Sabre 362 113 Fair Haven, NY
The saddle sizes for Yanmar diesels is 3.5". I'd encourage you to not use a dual belt and instead use a serpentine belt. It is very difficult to properly tension the 2 belts as belts are seldom exactly the same size, so one is either too tight or too loose.

And getting deeper in the weeds, do install the Balmar Belt Buddy or similar belt tensioning device. Larger alternators put more load on the belt than smaller OEM alternators. Often the single tensioning bolt is not able to resist the increased load leading to the belt becoming loose.

If you are willing to deal with cross border issues, Peter Kennedy at PKYS.com is an excellent resource, he is one of the most knowledgeable people in the business with fair prices and excellent service from him and his staff.

 
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