Tracks location Seaway 25

miro

.
Dec 15, 2024
6
Seaway Seaway 25 Sydney
Hi everyone,
I just bought a Seaway 25. The previous owner was mounting the Jib and Genoa with different way than what I am used to and I am actually thinking about putting tracks in to make things little bit more standard.

Looking at Ronstan 25 Alloy T track 1m long on each side.

Based on these measurements and pictures, would anyone be able to advise where approximately they should sit?
I can provide more images if needed over the weekend.

Thanks in advance.

Measurements
1734328518103.png

Previous owner's method
unnamed.png


Deck photo
IMG-20241214-WA0020.jpg
 

Ted

.
Jan 26, 2005
1,265
C&C 110 Bay Shore, Long Island, NY
Using the dimensions on the sail plan you provided, a one meter long track will not be long enough to provide a proper lead location for both the jib and genoa. To determine your average lead location draw a line from the midpoint of the luff and through the clew until it hits the deck. If you do this with each sail you will see that the distance between the average lead locations where those lines hit the deck is more than one meter. Therefore you will not have enough track length to move the lead aft to de-power the genoa. Also you must use the actual sail dimensions to make this calculation. I'm not sure if your drawing is using the correct sail dimensions or if this is a generic drawing.
 
Last edited:

Joe

.
Jun 1, 2004
8,133
Catalina 27 Mission Bay, San Diego
Adding to Ted's comments, it is important to understand that the purpose of the lead block is to manage the tension on the headsail's leech and foot. It works similarly to how the mainsheet and outhaul affect the mainsail's shape. Move the car forward and the sheet's tension increases on the headsail's leech while it reduces tension on the foot of the sail. A rounder shape with a closed leech.... powering up the headsail. Move the car aft and the reverse occurs, more tension on the foot creates a flatter lower portion, just like the main's outhaulwould, while the lessening tension on the leech opens the top portion, effectively flattening it.......de-power the headsail. So.....You want to bisect the sail with the sheet to get equal tension on both edges. This is the neutral position. The track's midpoint would be at this neutral position. As Ted explained, extending a line from the mid point of the luff down through the clew to the deck will guide the attached sheet to the block's neutral location. Simply put you are bisecting the corner angle between the sail's leech and foot. If the sail is hoisted, you can lay a simple protractor over the clew, use a felt pen to indicate the bisecting line, then use the attached sheet or something straight to indicate the neutral point on deck. This would also be the mid point of your track, and I would try to get at least two or three track adjustment holes ahead and behind the mid point .. If you use more than one size headsail, or roller reef your single sail often, you should mark their neutral positions on you deck so you can allow for a longer track if needed.

Okay, I hope that made sense, because I want to add one other consideration. That is the track's lateral (athwartship, side to side) location on the deck. This will determine the all important tack angle....which is the angle created by a line from the stem to the jib lead block and the centerline of the boat. The tack angle is often determined by the characteristics of the sail and the boat it's designed for.... so it would make sense to get the sailmaker's input, and also that of the boat designer. Boats that are designed with racing in mind will readily have this data... so it's worth a try to reach out to an expert. Some boats will have very little optional space on the side decks and you will actually see tracks on the cabin top... a Sonar, for instance, which s a popular one design racer has fixed leads mounted on the cuddy cabin roof. On my Catalina 27 I have a long track on the toe rail that literally runs from the foredeck to the transom... often called a Genoa track...it will accommodate any size sail and I have 3 sets of sliding cars, plus the Garhaurer EZ glide lead system... (allows me to adjust the car position under load).... And..... I also have a short 5 position track mounted inside the genoa track that gives me a tack angle option for the genoa, And I have rigged a "Barger Hauler" for the smaller headsails that won't fit the inside track.

Confused? .... that's why you want to understand what the lead block is and how it works. At this point the sail determines its location, but later, if you add some more sails.... their design will incorporate the peculiar aspects of your boat and how you want it to perform.

Good luck.... sorry for the long winded post....I can get carried away sometimes. Before you start drilling new holes, you might cut out some cardboard replicas, place them around the boat to depict your options.... with the sail hoisted of course... maybe even take a picture or two to show us... oops ... at it again :)
 
Last edited:
  • Like
Likes: LloydB

miro

.
Dec 15, 2024
6
Seaway Seaway 25 Sydney
hey, thanks for the explanation. it for sure helps. I will try to get the sails up this weekend and measure it, so I can come to you with specifics and better pictures.
 

miro

.
Dec 15, 2024
6
Seaway Seaway 25 Sydney
Sorry for the delay - holiday times.
I've checked both sails and I've marked the position of the clew on the picture (red). The shorter sail foot is 270 cm (white) and longer (black/transparent) is 380cm, so there is approx 110 cm between them. This measurement is just the clew and not the midpoint + clew as you described.

Considering the length of the longer sail one and position of the shrouds, I am not sure whether there is much benefit pulling the rail towards the stern since the shrouds are going to be in the way anyway + if the sail is inflated, the clew will be pulled towards bow.

So I am Considering 25mm x 1.5m length track which may be placed more in favor of the shorter sail rather than the longer one. If it starts where the shrouds are (picture does not reflect this, but the blue line does), that is going to give some space front from the optimal point (since that one may be 30 or 40 cm further to the back). That would then also then probs reach optimal point of the longer sail (nearly).

I think this seems to be most sensible considering the deck angle where 2m track might be too long. Thanks.
 

Attachments

Jan 11, 2014
12,471
Sabre 362 113 Fair Haven, NY
I searched for images of a Seaway 25 sailboat and came up a few. It appears that a Genoa track is not a standard feature. I did find this photo which shows a long track along side the cabin and inside of the shrouds. This will give you the most flexibility for sail trim.

1738499930285.png
 

miro

.
Dec 15, 2024
6
Seaway Seaway 25 Sydney
Those are based on my uneducated guess old style tracks which maybe were not installed on my boat in the past or were removed. I have to work with straight line tracks here coz that is what I can find online.

But looking at photo and some others online, should it be inside or outside of shrouds? Coz here it shows in, but I saw also out.
 
Jan 11, 2014
12,471
Sabre 362 113 Fair Haven, NY
But looking at photo and some others online, should it be inside or outside of shrouds? Coz here it shows in, but I saw also out.
Depends on the size of the smallest jib. If it overlaps the shrouds, the track needs to be outside of the shrouds.
 

Ted

.
Jan 26, 2005
1,265
C&C 110 Bay Shore, Long Island, NY
A straight track can be bent as shown in the photo that dlochner posted. The genoa car manufacturer can provide you with the maximum amount you can bend it without interfering with the function of the car. If the bend radius is too small the car will not be able to move along the track without binding.
 

PaulK

.
Dec 1, 2009
1,334
Sabre 402 Southport, CT
This would be a good topic to bring up with your sailmaker. You don't want to put holes in the boat to mount a track in the wrong place, or one that is too short. The shop that made the sail will certainly want it to look good even if you didn't buy it recently, and will provide better information than we can guess at online.
 

miro

.
Dec 15, 2024
6
Seaway Seaway 25 Sydney
If there is a sticker on the sail somewhere saying who made it, then i can try. If there is nothing, I won't be able to find out since I just bought the boat few months back.
 
  • Like
Likes: LloydB

PaulK

.
Dec 1, 2009
1,334
Sabre 402 Southport, CT
If there is a sticker on the sail somewhere saying who made it, then i can try. If there is nothing, I won't be able to find out since I just bought the boat few months back.
If there's no sailmaker indicated find one. Ten different ones showed up in my Google search of Sydney sailmakers. Don't go to a shade maker.
 

DArcy

.
Feb 11, 2017
1,762
Islander Freeport 36 Ottawa
Your "big sail" (genoa) will need to be set outside the stays. The side decks are not that wide, it is likely that this genoa is intended to be sheeted to the toe rail. I would start with this and see how close you can sheet it. If you want to bring the clew inboard, it might be better to run the sheet through a tweaker with a low friction ring before it reaches the jib sheet block on the rail. This will allow more variability in the 3D position of the clew for various wind speeds and sailing angles than running straight to a track. You could cam cleat (eg. Spinlock PXR) to manage the tweaker.

Adding a shorter track inboard of the shrouds could improve your tacking angle for the smaller jib.

There are boats that manage the 3D clew position just using tweakers instead of tracks. It does give more options in position but can be a little harder to set up and control. It looks like that's what the previous owner was doing with that pad-eye and tweaker. Experiment with that to see if you get good sail shape before making more holes in the boat.
 
  • Like
Likes: LloydB

miro

.
Dec 15, 2024
6
Seaway Seaway 25 Sydney
Ok thanks. I have gone that way - using loop and an orbit single hub swivel shackle thingy. Turns out to be also cheaper.
Thanks for all the advice everyone. I've learned something new for sure.
 
  • Like
Likes: LloydB