boat is a 28' oday with no nav. electronics as of now. sailing in done in protected waters, rivers sound etc never offshore sailing. what starters package would be a good set up for electronics? does a B&G vulcan unit by itself be sufficient since it has multifunction on it? looking to have depth, sail point and gps on the unit. seen some boats with 3 displays versus one but not much room. what you all think would be a good buy? wanted to keep 2K or less
entry level electronics
- Thread starter egreen024
- Start date
Well, your current cell phone is cheapest. With Navionics Boating app, OpenCPN, AquaMaps or whatever you prefer.
If you want built in instruments, the most cost effective way is to get a kit that includes sensors and displays like some of these.
A Vulcan by itself would not give you depth or wind because those need separate sensors.
You can also get separate dedicated depth sensor and display dirt cheap.
If you want built in instruments, the most cost effective way is to get a kit that includes sensors and displays like some of these.
A Vulcan by itself would not give you depth or wind because those need separate sensors.
You can also get separate dedicated depth sensor and display dirt cheap.
Humminbird Piranhamax 4.3" Fishfinder 410150-1 - Walmart.com
Buy Humminbird Piranhamax 4.3" Fishfinder 410150-1 at Walmart.com
www.walmart.com
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The simplest solution is a Speed/Depth/Temperature transducer networked to a Chartplotter, like the Zeus or Vulcan. This will give you all the information you need, an electronic chart, speed, depth, and speed over ground (SOG) and course over ground (COG). It may not give you heading unless you have a separate electronic compass.
A chart plotter is only necessary if you want or need the gps and charting function. If all you want is speed and depth a single display and a single transducer is all you need.
Tablets and phones work too. However, they have 2 important limitations, battery life and sunlight visibility. I have new iPad (M2) and the best I can get is about 2-3 hours of use before the battery is dead. There are ways to get around this limitation with external batteries and USB charging ports. Sunlight visibility will be an issue with most tablets.
The Chartplotters usually have a preinstalled base chart with basic information. It is necessary to purchase separate charts if you want detailed information, that may or may not be necessary. When I sail on Lake Ontario, detailed depth information isn't necessary because the lake is really deep. However, on the ICW and other areas detailed depth information is really important.
Most (all?) transducers are made by Airmar, so that should not sway your decision. A 7" display is small, a 9" display is easier to read, and a 12" display is pretty big and expensive. I find touch screen only devices hard to use, I much prefer knobs and buttons in addition to touchscreen (I have one of each). However, devices with knobs and buttons cost more.
If you ask about brands, there are 3 major brands, Garmin, Raymarine, and B&G (which includes Simrad and Lowrance, same devices oriented to different markets mostly through the software). Pick a brand and you'll find lovers and haters. B&G has the longest history of catering to sailors, over the past few years it has fallen prey to private equity firms and is now owned by Brunswick (along with a bunch of other marine companies and bowling ball brands). The frequent transitions have not had a positive impact on the company. Hopefully, they will find some stability with Brunswick.
Garmin has long been a high quality brand in the Aviation world, not so much in the recreational marine world. However they have been on a tear buying up companies to build their brand, including Active Captain, Vesper Marine, and Navionics. Defender.com would not carry their products until the company was sold to a Canadian company a few years ago.
Raymarine began as a subsidiary of Ratheon Corp, yes the Defense contractor. It was spun off a long time ago and has had its ups and down. It almost went under until Flir bought them. In the past few years the products line seems to have stabilized. One drawback to Raymarine, at least in my eyes, is the use of proprietary connectors for the networking. Garmin and B&G both use standard NEMA 2000 connectors, that makes adding additional devices easier.
That may be more than you wanted to know. Good luck.
A chart plotter is only necessary if you want or need the gps and charting function. If all you want is speed and depth a single display and a single transducer is all you need.
Tablets and phones work too. However, they have 2 important limitations, battery life and sunlight visibility. I have new iPad (M2) and the best I can get is about 2-3 hours of use before the battery is dead. There are ways to get around this limitation with external batteries and USB charging ports. Sunlight visibility will be an issue with most tablets.
The Chartplotters usually have a preinstalled base chart with basic information. It is necessary to purchase separate charts if you want detailed information, that may or may not be necessary. When I sail on Lake Ontario, detailed depth information isn't necessary because the lake is really deep. However, on the ICW and other areas detailed depth information is really important.
Most (all?) transducers are made by Airmar, so that should not sway your decision. A 7" display is small, a 9" display is easier to read, and a 12" display is pretty big and expensive. I find touch screen only devices hard to use, I much prefer knobs and buttons in addition to touchscreen (I have one of each). However, devices with knobs and buttons cost more.
If you ask about brands, there are 3 major brands, Garmin, Raymarine, and B&G (which includes Simrad and Lowrance, same devices oriented to different markets mostly through the software). Pick a brand and you'll find lovers and haters. B&G has the longest history of catering to sailors, over the past few years it has fallen prey to private equity firms and is now owned by Brunswick (along with a bunch of other marine companies and bowling ball brands). The frequent transitions have not had a positive impact on the company. Hopefully, they will find some stability with Brunswick.
Garmin has long been a high quality brand in the Aviation world, not so much in the recreational marine world. However they have been on a tear buying up companies to build their brand, including Active Captain, Vesper Marine, and Navionics. Defender.com would not carry their products until the company was sold to a Canadian company a few years ago.
Raymarine began as a subsidiary of Ratheon Corp, yes the Defense contractor. It was spun off a long time ago and has had its ups and down. It almost went under until Flir bought them. In the past few years the products line seems to have stabilized. One drawback to Raymarine, at least in my eyes, is the use of proprietary connectors for the networking. Garmin and B&G both use standard NEMA 2000 connectors, that makes adding additional devices easier.
That may be more than you wanted to know. Good luck.
jssailem
SBO Weather and Forecasting Forum Jim & John
- Oct 22, 2014
- 22,319
It sounds like you've got two Boat bucks burning a hole in your pocket. If you just want to bling out your boat, then go for it. @JBP-PA has given you some great options. A laptop/iPad/cellphone/new VHF radio can give you GPS location on a map for a lot less than a single boat buck ($1,000). If you already have the hardware you can make these work (for less than $200). A transducer and a display (i.e. fish finder - less than $200) can provide depth. You can download or print free charts on paper if you consider sailing to new locations.
The sailing description sounds like day sailing in waters you know. If I were sailing in the waters, you describe, I would put my money into sails to improve my boat's sailing abilities. I would spend money on a wheel autopilot if I did not have one. This would let you sail with less work, even let you day sail solo.
It is your boat to add bling or to take you to places you have yet to explore. Fancy electronics are not needed.
I have a Garmin Striker fish finder on my Catalina22. It does depth and speed just fine, and the transducer is working fine under the v-berth stuck to the hull with a blob of plumbers putty (so no thru-hull). When we need charts (there's a couple of shoals / reefs in odd places) I use navionics on my cell phone. I think all in, I was down less than $200. It really depends on where you sail, if you have cell service, etc. I had OpenCPN (which is great) but we found we really didn't use it all that much.
jssailem
SBO Weather and Forecasting Forum Jim & John
- Oct 22, 2014
- 22,319
True statement.
It is all about the complexity of the waters (seas) you sail. When I sailed in the bays, rivers, and lakes, the obvious was that when you neared land, the water became shallow. Sailing in a boat that draws a foot of water was no problem. When you can see the bottom looking over the side, it is shallow. When the centerboard popped up, it was time to jump over the side and wade ashore.
Cruising in unfamiliar waters with reefs and rocks the size of houses just beneath the surface demands a chart to sail safely. Strong currents, areas of violent waters, and sandbanks can be avoided if you have specific information about your location and the hazards.
Using a boat that sits deep in the water further necessitates the avoidance of shallows and reliable information of hazards nearby.
We had an O’Day 28 for many years with just traditional depth and speed instruments. When we moved it to unfamiliar waters we added a low cost Lowrance GPS. That had a transom mount transducer we were able to mount inside the hull as a second depth source.
(forgive the messy wiring; I subsequently cleaned that up).
(forgive the messy wiring; I subsequently cleaned that up).
To be honest, depth is all you actually need. That is entry level electronics. Otherwise, use a map and compass, or use a tablet with a nav app if you just can't do maps. But you really should learn the old school way too. Do you take GPS every time you go for a walk in the woods? I hope not.
Most days, when I go sailing, I don't turn the electronics on. What for, on my home waters? Sailing should be a visceral expereince. Full electronics are just the new weird normal. My only concession is the tiller pilot when I am alone; it makes raising sail simpler, but it's not vital. In fact I would look at steering before I settled on the rest; that will drive your decision.
Most days, when I go sailing, I don't turn the electronics on. What for, on my home waters? Sailing should be a visceral expereince. Full electronics are just the new weird normal. My only concession is the tiller pilot when I am alone; it makes raising sail simpler, but it's not vital. In fact I would look at steering before I settled on the rest; that will drive your decision.
Agree, we boat on the Hudson River, where we have strong currents, wide but shallow areas etc very common to see sailboats stuck and waiting for tide to turn. Also Acadians club racing might happen, electronics would avoid not having to look up all the time to know wind direction.
Daves synopsis in Post 3 is excellent. If you want a product recommendation, I prefer B&G but I have had issues with performance, some of it having to do with my own making. I have found that B&G will take care of me once I get thru to technical support. But it has taken hours to get thru on occasion. I had a Vulcan chartplotter and now have a Zeus chartplotter. Both have virtually identical chartplotter and sailing features but Zeus is about twice the price. The major difference in my eyes is that Vulcan is exclusively touch screen and Zeus is both touch screen and dial controlled. I find that having dial control is indispensable, but it may not matter to you. For your application, I would easily recommend Vulcan as a virtually equal product at far less cost. I also recommend the B&G multifunction instrument package - either the one display or 2 display option that is available when shopping Defender. Networking is easy and a pleasure to have on board.
The Raymarine proprietary connectors are slimmer than the standard NMEA connectors, and many prefer this for the installation advantages. Integrating with standard connectors is simply not a problem because conversion connectors are available (just adds some additional cost for the connectors). They are both on the NMEA 2000 network so integrating B&G, Garmin and Raymarine is not normally a problem.
The Raymarine proprietary connectors are slimmer than the standard NMEA connectors, and many prefer this for the installation advantages. Integrating with standard connectors is simply not a problem because conversion connectors are available (just adds some additional cost for the connectors). They are both on the NMEA 2000 network so integrating B&G, Garmin and Raymarine is not normally a problem.
I was thinking the vulcan7 and the two displays , just wasn’t sure if one screen would have all functions integrated ( display wise)
Thank you
Every MFD can display pretty much all the NMEA data on your network. They come with predefined pages you can flip through or program your own. Having two displays is handy but not necessary. I normally have one set to the wind arrows and the second set to a 3x3 custom page that shows me the 9 data points I usually care about.
Mine is about the same. I have 2 triton2 displays, one has the B&G Sail information, the other has SOG, STW, VMG, and Depth. On the Zeus3, there is a lot more data, including position, tides, and I can't remember all the rest off the top of my head.
The one danger to having lots of data is focusing too much on the data and not the boat and the environment. Sailing is not a video game, the instruments are there to supplement the visceral data you collect from your senses.
Me, waiting for the tide. "But the chart plotter said there was 8 feet of water at low tide."
I'll speak up for portables for entry level instruments. You can remove them from the boat or place them below for when you are away from the boat. This reduces the risk of stealing and the damage a thief will do to remove your expensive MFD. In addition you don't have to fool around with a network, connectivity, compatibility or power issues. Some batteries, a mounting bracket or two and you're off and running.
For sailing the Flying Scots I have a handheld anemometer, a VHF (which can display compass course and speed over ground), a handheld GPS (Would prefer chart plotter), binoculars and hockey puck compass.
Regarding the windspeed/direction display, it is useful to save your neck from strain. But if you race depending on it you will not do well. Normally there is an averaging function that is a bit behind. While not very long it will have you reacting to a shift that has passed. For real time wind info use your telltales. That is the wind your sails are seeing. I'm going rogue here but to avoid a stiff neck, I'd consider a camera(s) to display windex position and jib luff telltails in the cockpit. That would be cool! And more useful than the instruments which you will learn are user adjustable to practically any parameter you want. Want to go faster? Just bump the speed up in the menus! That will also make your TWS look higher because TWS is a derived output using the STW and Apparent Wind. Instruments are not absolute.
Hudson River? Have a depth gage (Which is of historical interest- but can foretell a trend toward shallow water) and an auto pilot, VHF and chart plotter.
For sailing the Flying Scots I have a handheld anemometer, a VHF (which can display compass course and speed over ground), a handheld GPS (Would prefer chart plotter), binoculars and hockey puck compass.
Regarding the windspeed/direction display, it is useful to save your neck from strain. But if you race depending on it you will not do well. Normally there is an averaging function that is a bit behind. While not very long it will have you reacting to a shift that has passed. For real time wind info use your telltales. That is the wind your sails are seeing. I'm going rogue here but to avoid a stiff neck, I'd consider a camera(s) to display windex position and jib luff telltails in the cockpit. That would be cool! And more useful than the instruments which you will learn are user adjustable to practically any parameter you want. Want to go faster? Just bump the speed up in the menus! That will also make your TWS look higher because TWS is a derived output using the STW and Apparent Wind. Instruments are not absolute.
Hudson River? Have a depth gage (Which is of historical interest- but can foretell a trend toward shallow water) and an auto pilot, VHF and chart plotter.
Lots of valuable input here. I'll just add that you can do everything that you want with a tablet (though there are sunshine visibility issues as mentioned) if you install Bluetooth enabled sensors. The Airmar DST-180 smart transducer, for example, will send depth, speed, water temperature and trim/heel data to a tablet wirelessly. For wind data, you can add a Calypso ultrasonic wind sensor that will also send data to the tablet via Bluetooth. The Calypso witll provide you with true and apparent wind speed and angle. Am am adding the Airmar and Calypso sensors to my Precision 27 this year along with a Vakaros Atlas 2 instrument. I'll use my tablet loaded with Navionics for navigational purposes and use the Atlas 2 to display all of the other data. I purchased the Atlas 2 primarily because it has some very advance functions for racing (e.g., shift tracking, time to line/time to burn, VMG, etc.), but it seems like it will also be a nice substitute for a bank of multiple tradigital displays.
For me, I would want a wind instrument, which can be displayed on a separate display or on a chart plotter. And I would want a chart plotter with depth and speed transducers. Lastly, an auto-pilot.
On my boat, I have a Tack Tic wireless wind transducer on the mast, and it has its own dedicated display at the helm. I was able to network it with my Garmin GPS740 Chartplotter, so I can get wind info on the CP. The CP provides location, speed over ground (via GPS) and depth. In addition, I bought a new VHF radio that has built-in AIS. So by networking it to the CP, I can get AIS targets, alarms, etc.on my CP.
Here is my helm set up…
Overall view, with Chart plotter, auto-pilot control head on left, dedicated wind display on right.
When sailing, this is the screen I use the most…provides a lot of info in a glance.
I set up the customizable nav screen to show the things I wanted to see, like wind angle and speed, battery voltage, depth, boat speed, etc.
Greg
On my boat, I have a Tack Tic wireless wind transducer on the mast, and it has its own dedicated display at the helm. I was able to network it with my Garmin GPS740 Chartplotter, so I can get wind info on the CP. The CP provides location, speed over ground (via GPS) and depth. In addition, I bought a new VHF radio that has built-in AIS. So by networking it to the CP, I can get AIS targets, alarms, etc.on my CP.
Here is my helm set up…
Overall view, with Chart plotter, auto-pilot control head on left, dedicated wind display on right.
When sailing, this is the screen I use the most…provides a lot of info in a glance.
I set up the customizable nav screen to show the things I wanted to see, like wind angle and speed, battery voltage, depth, boat speed, etc.
Greg
Re. depth based on charts, in many places that is a joke book. The shoals move around with floods and storms, and also, check the date on the last survey. You may be surprised to find that, except for commercial harbors and channels, the last survey may have been in the 70s. Really. And that bit of information isn't displayed on the charter page. Even the coastlines move in some areas.
The quote Dlochner, "Sailing is not a video game, the instruments are there to supplement the visceral data you collect from your senses." You need to get your head out of the cockpit and look around. I sailed for years before GPS was a thing, I didn't have depth sounder, and I didn't run aground. I did sniff the bottom a few times. I've pulled several people off that proclaimed "the plotter said there were X feet here." One got stuck the same place twice.
The quote Dlochner, "Sailing is not a video game, the instruments are there to supplement the visceral data you collect from your senses." You need to get your head out of the cockpit and look around. I sailed for years before GPS was a thing, I didn't have depth sounder, and I didn't run aground. I did sniff the bottom a few times. I've pulled several people off that proclaimed "the plotter said there were X feet here." One got stuck the same place twice.
In self-defense I was distracted by a dolphin and her baby dolphin swimming near us, a quick glance at the chart said there would be some water on both sides of the mark. There wasn't. If someone had drawn a line between the two Red channel marks, it would have gone through the middle of my boat. When I went through the same spot this year, I was very careful.
Chart data is just guidance, not gospel. Aquamaps does use the most recent USACE soundings in areas prone to shoaling, which helps a lot, especially on the ICW. The charts are updated at least weekly if not daily.