I have a universal m18 diesel. My engine was running fine and was not overheating after 15 minutes of use. I smelled smoke so I shut it down. There was smoke in the engine compartment and the starter was really hot. Now when I pull the starter switch nothing happens. But I did notice it seems to get stuck in the on position. If this happened after my last start and the starter switch was indeed stuck on I think that would cause the starter to burn up. Oddly and possibly related earlier this year I had some wires melt near the starter including the main power going to the starter. We attributed that problem to chaffed wires. I replaced the wiring and all was good. Now I’m thinking the starter switch got stuck in the on position then (and caused the starter to get hot) but the melted wires depowered the starter before it could burn up. Thoughts ?
Starter motor burned up?
- Thread starter BTC1984
- Start date
Seems like the starter motor had been running while the engine was running. It would be warmed from the engine but not really hot after 15 minutes of the engine running.
Time to do some detective work on the starter. You've got a jumble of fried wiring down there so find a length of heavy wire to supply (+) power to the starter solenoid ONLY. Do not connect to the starter itself. Run it back to your starter battery or choose a source of (+) close to the engine but only if you know exactly what you are doing. It should be #14 or heavier as you will be pulling 15-20A. Touch the #14 wire to the solenoid to see what happens.
Seem like a lot of work to just to test the starter ? Try installing a new starter motor and then find out the original was still good
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See if you can peek at the teeth on your flywheel too.
Could be the switch or the solenoid on the starter. I would replace the starter regardless. They aren't built for extended operation.
Could be the switch or the solenoid on the starter. I would replace the starter regardless. They aren't built for extended operation.
I would take it to any starter/alternator shop, if I were you, if you are n ot familiar with rebuilding starter motors. They aren't particularly complicated, but if you aren't familiar with how they look in operable condition, then you may miss the real problem.
The problem that led to your current situation was not a starter fault, but because of a faulty bendix, the piece that ejects the starter teeth from the engine, once it starts. This isn't a common occurrence, so I'd not carry any spares, or expect it to happen again.
The problem that led to your current situation was not a starter fault, but because of a faulty bendix, the piece that ejects the starter teeth from the engine, once it starts. This isn't a common occurrence, so I'd not carry any spares, or expect it to happen again.
You have a couple of problems. First the wiring harness connector plug shorted out, there is where the smoke came from. Next the wires shorted/melted the connector and shorted between power and start and the starter engaged until it burned up. So it sounds like you removed the harness connector and are in need of a starter. You can get them on line for that engine for a hundred dollars or less. It is a common issue with that engine. It is used in many applications so the make the control panel with a short wire harness and then the engine with a short wiring harness and they use the connecting harness to connect the two. I am a technical editor for Catalina and that is how I know, I have fixed many of them. It's not unique to Catalina either. Also check the harness plug below the control panel. And then replace the root cause of the issue, you need to see if the glow plug circuit has been upgraded,, the large load to the glow plugs is what melts them down and the power wire and starter solenoid wires are side by side so when it melts, it shorts. If you get on the C28 group site I describe that update on there it is not expensive or time consuming or e-mail me your address and I can e-mail you the procedure.
Update: I did a really bad job explaining this last time so here we go. 1984 Catalina 27 with universal M18.
May 2024. Put the boat in the water and on the first trip out I get smoke, something burning in the engine. For some reason the wires near the starter and alternator burned up. We attributed this to wire chaffing and a short. Replaced all the burned wires and everything is fine. Ran the boat regularly for 3 months. No problems. No odd smells.
August 2024: the starter gets burned to a crisp. It was toast. This time none of the wires were burned. Just the starter burned up. I attributed this to my starter switch getting stuck in the on position. But never verified this, it just seemed probable because it was sticking.
September 2024: I replaced the starter with a brand new one and everything starts right up and runs fine. However I’m getting a faint burning smell after 15 minutes that gets stronger the longer I run the engine. Something does not seem right.
Diagnosis?: Maybe there is a common cause to all of these events and my previous explanations are way off? Maybe all of this is unconnected ?
Thoughts ideas ? Not sure where to start. I’m pretty sure my wire harness is not the original.
May 2024. Put the boat in the water and on the first trip out I get smoke, something burning in the engine. For some reason the wires near the starter and alternator burned up. We attributed this to wire chaffing and a short. Replaced all the burned wires and everything is fine. Ran the boat regularly for 3 months. No problems. No odd smells.
August 2024: the starter gets burned to a crisp. It was toast. This time none of the wires were burned. Just the starter burned up. I attributed this to my starter switch getting stuck in the on position. But never verified this, it just seemed probable because it was sticking.
September 2024: I replaced the starter with a brand new one and everything starts right up and runs fine. However I’m getting a faint burning smell after 15 minutes that gets stronger the longer I run the engine. Something does not seem right.
Diagnosis?: Maybe there is a common cause to all of these events and my previous explanations are way off? Maybe all of this is unconnected ?
Thoughts ideas ? Not sure where to start. I’m pretty sure my wire harness is not the original.
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Did you replace the starter switch? I don’t see that listed in your fixes.
Can you start the motor at the dock and let it run while you inspect the wiring, check the starter to make sure it isn’t still engaged, sniff out the smell? If you have to, you could run in it in gear, provided you are tied up to the dock tightly. But if it is electrical, you probably don’t need to have a load on the engine.
Greg
I did not replace the starter switch. It’s the kind that you pull out and then a spring pulls it shut when you let go. It’s was a little sticky so I was thinking maybe it got stuck open. Since I replaced the starter I now manually push it in once the motor starts. Perhaps it’s an issue with the switch beyond my simple manual override push it in fix. How would I know if the starter is still engaged (ie stuck on) after the engine starts ? I kind of looked at that and it didn’t seem to be engaged but maybe it’s not so easy to tell? Also is a stuck switch a common reason a starter would burn up? If yes then I will definitely replace the switch. Actually the switch is easy to fix so I will just fix that to rule it out. I will replace the switch and let you know what happens from there. Thanks
I just think if you suspect the old starter was fried because the switch stayed engaged, I would replace the switch. I am not familiar with one you “pull”, but if it seemed to stick, I would replace it.
Also, if you have the engine running, listen to the starter to see if it is still “whining”. And you can check for smoke, hot wires, sniff for smells safely if you are tied up at the dock.
Greg
jssailem
SBO Weather and Forecasting Forum Jim & John
- Oct 22, 2014
- 21,972
Use an IR temp gauge tester aimed at the starter motor. If hot it has no shut off. You could also check by touch but there is the chance you get a nasty burn if it is stuck on. Note remove the starter ground and you turn off the starter.
Usually it is not the wires that cause the issue. It is low voltage or weak solenoid spring. The solenoid gets welded in the run position. Won’t let go. Return spring can’t release. Often repairable.
Usually it is not the wires that cause the issue. It is low voltage or weak solenoid spring. The solenoid gets welded in the run position. Won’t let go. Return spring can’t release. Often repairable.
I'm still thinking the same thing. The starter switch is likely causing all your problems (two fried starter motors).
Follow @Tally Ho 's instructions and check the power to the starter RELAY only. Nothing else. Not the starter motor. It must be checked under load as the relay will pull somewhere in the range of 17A and this 17A may be what's causing the faulty starter solenoid contacts to stick.
Just a suggestion here : don't buy any more parts connected to this starter problem until you find the fault. No fault ? Start it again, and again, and again, until you do find the fault. Still no fault ? Repeat the instructions.
Excuse my ignorance. Does the fact that I changed the starter and the selnoid both (it was a combo unit) change anything regarding the “relay”. ? See photo of the old and new starter. Also including a photo of the wire harness which I think has been upgraded by the PO from the stock wiring.
Attachments
jssailem
SBO Weather and Forecasting Forum Jim & John
- Oct 22, 2014
- 21,972
This might help.
The electrical current that drives the plunger into the solenoid contacts sometimes arcs across the contact, creating melted metal like a weld. When this happens, the plunger gets stuck, making the starter run under constant power even if the engine has started. The starter soon fails.
The electrical current that drives the plunger into the solenoid contacts sometimes arcs across the contact, creating melted metal like a weld. When this happens, the plunger gets stuck, making the starter run under constant power even if the engine has started. The starter soon fails.
Not at all. You've got to learn sometime. The solenoid and the relay are the same thing with different names. We're not making this any easier for you, I see that now.
I'm going to assume here that the new starter is still operational.
Check the connection shown in the drawing below to ensure there is no voltage when the start button is released.
I would suggest you use an alligator clip on that terminal AND make sure all wiring is safely taped to one side and place the voltmeter in a safe place as well, in other words, no fingers in the works. Get someone else to push and release the starter button and ensure you see 12V and then see it go to 0V when the button is released. Keep us informed.
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