3M 5200

[Ward H]

"I raised the issue because there is too much disinformation, misinformation, and plain old rumor mongering on the internet, we all know this". And yes, removing a useful and safe product might be considered taking away a tool. However, in the context of this discussion the comment did nothing to dismiss the rumor and could be construed as supporting and spreading the unfounded rumor. A couple of minutes spent on an internet search and checking on the retail availability of 5200 in California, pretty clearly showed that 5200 is available in CA and there were no reputable news sources that indicated it would be banned.

A post like "being unhappy with someone taking away my tools" is simply an unfounded call for action and raises questions about the author's intention.

Here we go again.

I agree with "there is too much disinformation, misinformation, and plain old rumor mongering on the internet".

I disagree with an Admin posting "A post like "being unhappy with someone taking away my tools" is simply an unfounded call for action and raises questions about the author's intention."

You don't know the posters intentions, you publicly question them, and your comment only serves to put him in a negative light. Doing so you are also politicizing this thread.

 

[Crazy Dave Condon]

5200 applied from water line and down along with hull to deck joints was always suggested by the industry. I concurred with that. Anything else, different sealants are recommended. Sadly industry did not adhere to their philosophy in some cases. Former dealer

 

[Leeward Rail]

It is better to fix fiberglass than missing wood

Not sure how a teak beam that Is bolted down with multiple bolts and stainless backing plates would go missing.

I shouldn't have to repair the structure of the deck because I removed hardware, just like I don't expect to redo a large area of stucco on my house because I replaced the mailbox.

Oh no. Not this again! (5200 haters)

• No on mentioned some of the very effective de-bonding agents. Try this guys, cuts the work 90%. Really.

I don't hate 5200. I hate the numerous people who use it for the wrong application.

Fwiw I have tried the debonding agents. I currently have 2 bottles of re-mov. In my experience it doesn't magically get between to large pieces bonded with 5200. It's great when removing the leftovers, but even the PBO and PS reviews show their limitations. Better to use the correct "tools" than have someone have to deal with the BS later.

Yesterday I discovered the idiot used 5200 to bed the primary winches even though they both have 5 bolts and a large backing plate through a thick deck. Grrr.

If anything I wish 3M would just call it ADHESIVE and remove any mention of "Sealant" in it's marketing. If they want to call it adhesive sealant, they can put it in the technical docs, which the idiot who installed these winches and traveller wouldn't read.

 

[Leeward Rail]

it would seem that California has banned more an more things over the years.

Hmmmm guess the Lithium issue would interfere with another agenda

5200 is not banned. Stay on topic and try avoid the political bs/fud.

 

[dLj]

5200 is not banned. Stay on topic and try avoid the political bs/fud.

Actually - the topic IS the question if 5200 is being banned in California.... The rest of when and where to use it is actually "off topic"....

dj

 

[Leeward Rail]

The closest I came was a hull deck joint that was glassed over at the factory, but those are rare boats.

5200 applied from water line and down along with hull to deck joints was always suggested by the industry. I concurred with that. Anything else, different sealants are recommended. Sadly industry did not adhere to their philosophy in some cases. Former dealer

I'm lucky there. The hull deck joint on my C&C is mechanically fastened with bolts and sealed with butyl that works as well as when it was applied. Another C&C here developed a minor leak after 42 years.. Was easily/quickly solved with 2 people, tools to tighten the bolts, thereby squishing the old butyl, and some beer afterwards.

 

[Leeward Rail]

Actually - the topic IS the question if 5200 is being banned in California....

Yeah. Amazingly I can read.
Again. It's not banned. That was covered already. But I am pretty sure that EVs or lithium or "agendas" are NOT on topic.

I guess we could start a thread that discusses product phaseout and bans in general.. but that's a different discussion.

 

[dLj]

Yeah. Amazingly I can read.
Again. It's not banned. That was covered already. But I am pretty sure that EVs or lithium are NOT on topic.

I guess we could start a thread that discusses product phaseout and bans in general.. but that's a different discussion.

Actually, we don't know. There is nothing anyone knows specific to this other than it is still available. But we don't know if it will or will not be available next year in California. It is only an assumption given our current knowledge that it will still be available.

dj

 

[dmax]

Not to be argumentative, I'd be interested in other's thoughts about a "never remove" installation or repair where 5200 would be the best choice.

I re-bedded my keel with 5200, I think it was good choice. I was told factory used 5200 as well.

 

[jssailem]

I shouldn't have to repair the structure of the deck because I removed hardware,

This is a reasonable expectation. You are correct that repairs or additions to a boat are often completed using the wrong tool. I like to think this is more about expediency than intent, perhaps with a little lack of knowledge sprinkled in.

 

[Leeward Rail]

Actually, we don't know. There is nothing anyone knows specific to this other than it is still available. But we don't know if it will or will not be available next year in California. It is only an assumption given our current knowledge that it will still be available.

dj

It's not currently banned there. Will something be banned in the future ? How would we know that ?
Unfortunately psychics aren't a thing. Will butter be banned in Alabama next year ? Will dogs be banned in Iowa in 2028?

 

[Leeward Rail]

I like to think this is more about expediency than intent, perhaps with a little lack of knowledge sprinkled in.

100% Agreed. Same with the use of homedepot silicone on a boat.

This boat had some used for the chainplate cover plates at some point in the past. Someone then used 4200 on top. Which didn't fully bond because of the silicone residue.
Fortunately some silicone remover and bed-it tape came to the rescue.

 

[sailme88]

I just Googled 5200 & California.. The information available indicates that California has indeed banned sales and shipping ( into Cali) 3m" 5200 Marine Sealant.

Many are under the opinion the 5200 is permanent. Not so. Debonding agents will release it.

 

[dLj]

It's not currently banned there. Will something be banned in the future ?

Now the answer to the above question would indeed be on-topic. Since I don't live in California, I am not personally affected hence won't take the time to answer.

Those that live or are affected by this may wish to look more carefully at the answer to this. It could be suggested they look through Prop 65 and the MSDS of 5200 – it would require thought and work...

How would we know that ?

Perhaps ask @sailme88 …. A bit more info on the source would be helpful for those that care to know...

I just Googled 5200 & California.. The information available indicates that California has indeed banned sales and shipping ( into Cali) 3m" 5200 Marine Sealant.

Unfortunately psychics aren't a thing. Will butter be banned in Alabama next year ? Will dogs be banned in Iowa in 2028?

Gosh, and here I thought you were a STAUNCH proponent of staying on topic. In fact, you seemed earlier to be VERY adamant!

Perhaps you consider yourself to be in such an exalted position that it only applies to others – you, in fact, seem to consider yourself above your own requested norms...

dj

 

[LloydB]

Been following this thread with the question in my mind as to what branch of the government is considering the ban and who would do the enforcement or is this a hot tip from somebody that is about to corner the market.

 

[dLj]

Been following this thread with the question in my mind as to what branch of the government is considering the ban and who would do the enforcement or is this a hot tip from somebody that is about to corner the market.

I don't know the answer to this, but California tends to use Prop 65 for these kinds of bans. If that is the case here also, it would be the Attorney Generals Office...

https://oehha.ca.gov/proposition-65/about-proposition-65#:~:text=Who%20enforces%20Proposition%2065%3F,may%20also%20enforce%20Proposition%2065

.

dj

 

[Richard19068]

I just Googled 5200 & California.. The information available indicates that California has indeed banned sales and shipping ( into Cali) 3m" 5200 Marine Sealant.

Wow. Do you have any current substantial or official support whatsoever for that conclusion? I know I can just go to my local chandlery here in southern California and pick up some 5200 today or have Amazon send some directly to my house. . Or did you just pick up a factoid from the internet and run with it?

it would seem that California has banned more an more things over the years. Along with that goes a sticker with a warning. Interestingly enough Lithium batteries of all sizes, especially those in EV somehow escape the scrutiny of California...Hmmmm guess the Lithium issue would interfere with another agenda....

There are proposition 65 warnings for Lithium batteries, as well as lead acid batteries. And for 5200. A prop 65 warnng is not a ban.

Do you have an agenda against California?

Been following this thread with the question in my mind as to what branch of the government is considering the ban and who would do the enforcement...

I know the Department of Toxic Substances Control and the California EPA deal with these kind of things. I assume they would have to propose a ban to the legislature. Not sure how the enforcement would work. Probably a fine on the vendors.

 

[dlochner]

I just Googled 5200 & California.. The information available indicates that California has indeed banned sales and shipping ( into Cali) 3m" 5200 Marine Sealant.

Many are under the opinion the 5200 is permanent. Not so. Debonding agents will release it.

A quote like this without the link to the original sources is worthless. I did the same search and all I found were to forums questioning the 5200 ban. I also checked and the San Diego West Marine was still selling 5200.

Be mindful that a Prop 65 warning in CA is not the same as a ban. It is simply informing the user there are ingredients in the product which may be harmful to your health. Hard to make a sensible and logical argument against warning consumers of potential health risks in a product.

 

[dlochner]

Here we go again.

I agree with "there is too much disinformation, misinformation, and plain old rumor mongering on the internet".

I disagree with an Admin posting "A post like "being unhappy with someone taking away my tools" is simply an unfounded call for action and raises questions about the author's intention."

You don't know the posters intentions, you publicly question them, and your comment only serves to put him in a negative light. Doing so you are also politicizing this thread.

A review of all the posts in this thread show that no poster has an SBO badge indicating they are an admin or a staff member. An assertion that any poster without that designation is speaking as an Admin is simply without merit.

If I have misconstrued the comment made about "losing tools" then it is incumbent on the original poster to clarify what was meant by the comment. We are all adults here and that is what an adult would do and not send friends to do their bidding.

 

[Rick Webb]

It's not currently banned there. Will something be banned in the future ? How would we know that ?
Unfortunately psychics aren't a thing. Will butter be banned in Alabama next year ? Will dogs be banned in Iowa in 2028?

I've heard folks in Texas want to ban Californians