2006 Hunter 41DS House Bank Charging off alternator

[SEMPERAVANTI41]

Did the combiner allow for charging of the house batteries from the alternator? Or just allow house power to be used to start, if necessary. Appreciate your reply!!

The solenoid combiner only works when the ignition is in the "on" position, and only works with the engine driven alternator. The boat would have originally been equipped with a 120 volt a/c charger, which works when the boat is plugged in to shore power. The 120 volt charger would be directly connected to the house & start batteries and would not go through the solenoid combiner.

 

[Boatyarddog]

Well, if you have a mechanical solenoid your not using an ACR.
Those have relays using contact points, and as well are usually rated for Currents well Below what Mechanical Solenoids can with stand.
Combiners can be Electrically Operated or Manually Operated depending on the type.
Usually, they are connected when Running the Alternator, and disconnected when at Anchor.
Similair to the 1,2, both and Off switch.
Only automatic with the ACR relay.
Combiner Switches allow for charging from the Alternator.
Assuming this is True, A DC to DC chargers would be ideal.
As they are programmable for different Battery chemistries.

 

[jviss]

The solenoid combiner only works when the ignition is in the "on" position, and only works with the engine driven alternator.

I'd like to see a schematic of that, or at least the logic of that, including the time-based part.

 

[marcham]

Is there an internal system in the '06 Hunter 41DS that enables house bank charging off the alternator?
It appears to me that only the start battery is charged by alternator and the house bank is only charged by shorepower/charging system.
Any insight is welcomed.

Open up the panel where the battery switches are installed. What do you see??

Do the house systems work on the house battery?

Does the shore charger charge the house battery?

First boat??

 

[Maine Sail]

I'd like to see a schematic of that, or at least the logic of that, including the time-based part.

There is no logic, Hunter tried to save money and used a simple solenoid that is activated by the ignition. They were horribly unreliable, because the chose the wrong solenoid... In later years Hunter did switch to Blue Sea ACR's

 

[jviss]

There is no logic, Hunter tried to save money and used a simple solenoid that is activated by the ignition. They were horribly unreliable, because the chose the wrong solenoid... In later years Hunter did switch to Blue Sea ACR's

So, am I correct in saying that it really isn't a starting battery, since it's always paralleled with the house when starting?

 

[Boatyarddog]

I don't think that's what's being said here.
The solenoid only passes charging current when the ignition key is on, thus charging start and house banks, using the Alternator.
When the key is off the solenoid is inactive and does not allow current to pass to the start bank, therefore Isolating the house from the start.
ACRs, sense voltage differences of those same banks and activate when the House bank is lower in voltage, thus charging it to a HI predetermined Set point, but They will fail eventually.
Best to use your Battery switch to mechanically isolate the banks.
IMHO

 

[jviss]

I don't think that's what's being said here.
The solenoid only passes charging current when the ignition key is on, thus charging start and house banks, using the Alternator.
When the key is off the solenoid is inactive and does not allow current to pass to the start bank, therefore Isolating the house from the start.
ACRs, sense voltage differences of those same banks and activate when the House bank is lower in voltage, thus charging it to a HI predetermined Set point, but They will fail eventually.
Best to use your Battery switch to mechanically isolate the banks.
IMHO

I don't know if you are replying to my comment, but here goes, anyway.

I'm an electrical engineer, and I've done quite a bit of circuit design. So, I know what I'm talking about. So, getting the appeal to authority fallacy out of the way, here's what I'm saying.

• If there's a house bank and a starting battery that are joined by the solenoid when the key is on;
• And the key must be on in order to energize the starter;
• Then the so-called starting battery is never starting the engine on its own - because it's always in parallel with the house bank when starting the engine.

Get it? So, am I taking crazy pills, or just not "getting" what people are saying here?

Here's the sequence:

• House bank and starting battery separate;
• start engine:
  • turn key to "ON";
  • (start battery and house bank are joined via the solenoid);
  • turn key to "START";
  • starter is energized by the combined house bank and start battery.

How is that wrong? Why does that make sense? Help me understand this. I may be missing some information about how this works.

 

[SEMPERAVANTI41]

I think, but cannot be sure, that the solenoid only operates when the ignition switch is in the "on" position, not "start" position. Therefore, the start battery & the house battery are not combined when the starter is engaged. I bet Maine Sail would know if i'm correct?

 

[jviss]

I think, but cannot be sure, that the solenoid only operates when the ignition switch is in the "on" position, not "start" position. Therefore, the start battery & the house battery are not combined when the starter is engaged. I bet Maine Sail would know if i'm correct?

Well, you show me an ignition switch that shuts off the the ignition power when the starter is engaged and I'll eat my hat. That's magical thinking.

 

[dlochner]

ACRs, sense voltage differences of those same banks and activate when the House bank is lower in voltage, thus charging it to a HI predetermined Set point, but They will fail eventually.
Best to use your Battery switch to mechanically isolate the banks.

While I haven't conducted any rigorous research, I suspect the failure rate with humans using the 1--2-B battery switch is much higher than with an ACR. Perhaps someone in an electrical engineering program might consider this as a research project.

 

[marcham]

Until we get pictures of the wiring behind the switch panel, everything above is conjecture. The OP needs to crack open the panel and see how THEIR boat is currently wired.

 

[jviss]

ACRs, sense voltage differences of those same banks and activate when the House bank is lower in voltage, thus charging it to a HI predetermined Set point, but They will fail eventually.
Best to use your Battery switch to mechanically isolate the banks.
IMHO

Well, I must say that I think your opinion is faulty. First, ACRs activate when they detect a voltage level on the side with the alternator or other charging source is above the resting voltage of the battery type. And, they won't "fail eventually," any more than anything else electrical fails. You are much better off with an ACR than messing with your battery switch.

 

[jviss]

While I haven't conducted any rigorous research, I suspect the failure rate with humans using the 1--2-B battery switch is much higher than with an ACR. Perhaps someone in an electrical engineering program might consider this as a research project.

Failure of what? Do you mean damage, as in blowing alternator diodes?

 

[SEMPERAVANTI41]

Jviss, I stand corrected!
So then the start & house batteries are combined when starting with the solenoid. Sounds like a system that needs to be changed to an ACR.
On an actual basis, I had my Hunter 41 for 13 years and cannot remember any issues with engine start or the solenoid.

 

[Boatyarddog]

I think, but cannot be sure, that the solenoid only operates when the ignition switch is in the "on" position, not "start" position. Therefore, the start battery & the house battery are not combined when the starter is engaged. I bet Maine Sail would know if i'm correct?

Yeah, this is the case, but engineers are not Mechanics, so a key switch may just be a key switch.
For starting purposes it is a Momentary Switch.
Really, it doesn't matter if the solenoid is active during cranking, it has no real bearing
Unless the start bank is dead, then it may help crank the starter.

Failure of what? Do you mean damage, as in blowing alternator diodes?

Would be interesting to get that info.
I take the position that a boat owner knows what that battery switch does, clearly that may not be the case.

 

[jviss]

Really, it doesn't matter if the solenoid is active during cranking, it has no real bearing
Unless the start bank is dead, then it may help crank the starter.

What I'm getting at is that a starting battery is used by itself to start the engine, not in parallel with the house bank.

 

[Boatyarddog]

Well, you show me an ignition switch that shuts off the the ignition power when the starter is engaged and I'll eat my hat. That's magical thinking.

Well. Your partially correct.
Power is supplied to the ignition via a power relay.
That compensates for a power drop to the starter motor Solenoid during cranking.
In Fact, without this pwr. Relay high power comsumption can keep fuel injectors from operating among other issues.

 

[jviss]

Well. Your partially correct.
Power is supplied to the ignition via a power relay.
That compensates for a power drop to the starter motor Solenoid during cranking.
In Fact, without this pwr. Relay high power comsumption can keep fuel injectors from operating among other issues.

What the heck are you talking about? Do you have an electronic injection engine in that boat? And, what does this have to do with this thread, anyway?

 

[Boatyarddog]

Well, I must say that I think your opinion is faulty. First, ACRs activate when they detect a voltage level on the side with the alternator or other charging source is above the resting voltage of the battery type. And, they won't "fail eventually," any more than anything else electrical fails. You are much better off with an ACR than messing with your battery switch.

Thanks for your opinion, ive replaced many over years of boat repair, as a Marine Tech.
They Burn up the Relay contacts...
Over time.