Raritan PHII long term review

[Skipper]

Been a couple years since I’ve been here.
I like long term reviews on equipment. They identify potential longevity plus maint issues.
PHII Compact, manual pump:
After 10 years of above average usage since new, me on the boat about 3-4 days a week, in almost exclusively #1 mode (have shoreside head), I had to replace:
Pump housing. Cracked and leaking.
Complete base, broken off at one mount, and cracked further in which also was leaking.
Piston, multiple cracks and looking to fail.
Pump housing vent.
Joker valve of course.
Flapper valve, totally toast. I used a maint kit so replaced lots of other bits but only the joker and flapper really needed it.
Pump handle. The sleeve insert failed and allowed handle detachment while pumping.
Seat and lid. Both deteriorated and loosing paint. I painted sections of them last year but not that good. Also plastic hinge broke.
Total parts about $400. Did the work myself. New head is $550, so didn’t save much.
It all cleaned up to new condition, and working great. The bowl is porcelain so muriatic acid makes it look new.
Not impressed with longevity. Lots of cracking going on.
I don’t use harsh cleaners, only citric based, and natural bio deodorants.

 

[dlochner]

Interesting review. That's not been my experience 2 boats 2 PHII toilets, no structural problems.

Flapper valves, joker valves, seals on the piston, and elsewhere are all wear items will have a much shorter life span than the other parts. After 20 years I did replace the pump housing because it was starting to wear.

 

[Ralph Johnstone]

Pump housing. Cracked and leaking.
Complete base, broken off at one mount, and cracked further in which also was leaking.
Piston, multiple cracks and looking to fail.

How would you describe your pumping action - aggressive or moderate ?
Did you lubricate the piston "O" ring with Superlube each year ?

 

[Stu Jackson]

That's not been my experience

Me neither.

PHII July 2010. Peggie Hall came for a visit and a sail with me and told me it was time for a rebuild in April 2016. Becasue...reasons...my son and I sailed her up to BC from SF in August 2016. PHII still working. Phil & Company got me just the parts I needed, not the rebuild "kit". I'll get to it someday.
Too bad you had a bad unit.

 

[Skipper]

How would you describe your pumping action - aggressive or moderate ?
Did you lubricate the piston "O" ring with Superlube each year ?

Moderate.
I use vegetable oil to lube, as it doesn’t require disassembly. It only lasts a couple of weeks, but it’s inexpensive, readily available and just an occasional part of the boat grocery list.

 

[Ralph Johnstone]

Moderate.
I use vegetable oil to lube, as it doesn’t require disassembly.

I don't think you can blame either of those. All I can suggest is that you were somehow dealt a defective unit. Or someone put a curse on it .

 

[Peggie Hall HeadMistress]

Hard to believe that the PHII would still be the top rated manual toilet pump ever since Raritan introduced it in 1983 if your experience weren't a very rare exception that MAY even have been the result of abuse or neglect on your part. It's been my experience that at least 75% of ALL toilet problems can be laid directly at the owners' feet.

--Peggie

 

[Skipper]

Hard to believe that the PHII would still be the top rated manual toilet pump ever since Raritan introduced it in 1983 if your experience weren't a very rare exception that MAY even have been the result of abuse or neglect on your part. It's been my experience that at least 75% of ALL toilet problems can be laid directly at the owners' feet.

--Peggie

That’s interesting and likely true in many cases. However, there’s nothing neglected or abused on this boat.

 

[Ralph Johnstone]

There's your problem right there :

Your pump is mounted on the RH side, rather than the LH side like mine :

Just plain bad Juju .

 

[Skipper]

There's your problem right there :

View attachment 219397

Your pump is mounted on the RH side, rather than the LH side like mine :

View attachment 219399

Just plain bad Juju .

Dang not sure how I missed that. It’s so simple, left head vs right head.

 

[Tally Ho]

There's your problem right there :

View attachment 219397

Your pump is mounted on the RH side, rather than the LH side like mine :

View attachment 219399

Just plain bad Juju .

Mine is on the right, and still the best dang toilet I have had…

Mine has to be 20 years old…maybe 35.

I rebuilt it 5 or 6 years ago since I had no idea when it was last done (I bought the boat about 9 years ago).



Sorry to hear @Skipper’s experience wasn’t as good as mine.

Greg

 

[Peggie Hall HeadMistress]

According to Raritan, a PHII should provide 25 yrs of reliable service with minimal repairs if it's just kept very well lubricate, the joker valve is replaced at least annually (see my "joker valve 101" treatise" for the reason)...and is rebuilt every 5-6 years...often even longer as Greg's experience bears out.

--Peggie

 

[Ralph Johnstone]

(see my "joker valve 101" treatise" for the reason)

Hi @Peggie Hall HeadMistress,
Could you please direct me to your "Joker Valve 101" treatise ?

I know someone who has a friend who knows this guy who never replaces his joker valve on :

1) a Jabsco for many years
and
2) a Raritan PH Superflush for the last four years.

Doesn't want to get his hands dirty if he doesn't have to. According to him, he has never experienced a problem with backflow because of ignoring the joker valve. . He also uses piped in sink water to flush the system when use of the boat is completed.

 

[Hayden Watson]

...
Pump housing. Cracked and leaking.
Complete base, broken off at one mount, and cracked further in which also was leaking.
Piston, multiple cracks and looking to fail.
...
Pump handle. The sleeve insert failed and allowed handle detachment while pumping.
...

These are the items I see that would not be under the normal routine maintenance category. On each of them I would be interested in seeing how the head was pumped, i.e., how much force is applied to the handle after the piston reaches the end of its stroke. When I pump my head, I rarely hit the stop on the up-stroke and only hit the stop on the down stroke with the final pump into the down position and that is just to touch down.
There is a difference between a soft landing and a hard landing.

 

[Skipper]

These are the items I see that would not be under the normal routine maintenance category. On each of them I would be interested in seeing how the head was pumped, i.e., how much force is applied to the handle after the piston reaches the end of its stroke. When I pump my head, I rarely hit the stop on the up-stroke and only hit the stop on the down stroke with the final pump into the down position and that is just to touch down.
There is a difference between a soft landing and a hard landing.

Sometimes medium pumping action needed between lube applications. Nothing anyone would gasp at.
The term “very well lubricated” from Raritan seems to indicate a disclaimer from them regarding failures. If the unit cannot handle intermittent medium force over time, then my opinion is that it is fragile equipment for marine work.
I bought the thing because it was touted as the best. My long-term reaction to that is “probably not”. Or, that “best” available in this category is not great.
It’s not terrible. I mean it’s over 10 years old and I’ve used it a lot. Just didn’t expect multiple major failures on the best this soon.
The pumping action and lubrication might be the culprit. Which I’ll address.
All good info for others.

 

[Peggie Hall HeadMistress]

Could you please direct me to your "Joker Valve 101" treatise ?

I'll do better than that...I'll post it again (it's also in my book, btw):

JOKER VALVE 101
Most people think that the only thing the joker valve does is act as a check valve to stop backflow from returning to the toilet or odor from the tank from escaping through the toilet. But that's the joker valve's LEAST important function...in fact, the joker valve is THE single most important replaceable part in a manual toilet. Here's why:

On the upstroke of the piston, a vacuum is created in the area beneath the piston. This causes the joker valve to close tightly, and the flapper valve beneath the pump to open, allowing some of the contents of the toilet bowl to be drawn into the bottom half of the pump. Then, on the down stroke of the piston, the flapper valve is slammed shut, and the effluent is forced out of the bottom of the pump, through the joker valve, and off down the line. But when the joker valve becomes worn and/or there's a buildup of sea water minerals on it, it can no longer seal tightly on the upstroke of the piston so less and less vacuum is created as the joker valve wears, requiring more and more pumping to move bowl contents.

You prob'ly won't notice the loss of efficiency at first because it's so gradual. But I guarantee you that if it's been two years or longer since you replaced the joker valve, you need to pump the toilet at least 50% more times to move the bowl contents to the tank or all the way out the thru-hull....IF they're getting there at all any more.

--Peggie

 

[Ralph Johnstone]

But when the joker valve becomes worn and/or there's a buildup of sea water minerals on it, it can no longer seal tightly on the upstroke of the piston so less and less vacuum is created as the joker valve wears, requiring more and more pumping to move bowl contents.

The only argument I can offer to counter the theory of a water mineral buildup is that my joker valve spends the vast majority of its time in fresh water due to the flushing arrangement which you introduced me to numerous years ago. That's the one where fresh water is introduced to the head pump (from the sink) and from there to the bowl and down the discharge line to the holding tank as shown below :

And I know how much you dislike my installation ( I do apologize) because you think it looks as if it was taken from a petroleum refinery. Perhaps, but it serves the purpose well.

Our Vancouver, B.C. water is surface water and is noted for its low total dissolved solids and its low pH of an annual average of 6.5 so that is likely why the sea mineral salts are dissolved when sitting for long periods in our tap water.

 

[Skipper]

The only argument I can offer to counter the theory of a water mineral buildup is that my joker valve spends the vast majority of its time in fresh water due to the flushing arrangement which you introduced me to numerous years ago. That's the one where fresh water is introduced to the head pump (from the sink) and from there to the bowl and down the discharge line to the holding tank as shown below :

View attachment 219481

And I know how much you dislike my installation ( I do apologize) because you think it looks as if it was taken from a petroleum refinery. Perhaps, but it serves the purpose well.

Our Vancouver, B.C. water is surface water and is noted for its low total dissolved solids and its low pH of an annual average of 6.5 so that is likely why the sea mineral salts are dissolved when sitting for long periods in our tap water.

Mineral and salts deposits can build from #1 passage, which I’ve witnessed on mine which is also fresh water flush. Off original topic but interesting nonetheless for maintenance purposes, thank you for adding.
Returning to topic; I think she’s right that proper and consistent lubrication may reduce the chance of the cracking I’ve experienced. However, to me that seems like it needs to be babied given that intermittent increased pumping effort will apparently damage the unit, which seems less than robust.
The Groco head has a bronze base which should eliminate base failure due to pumping. Also, the pump is entirely vertical, vs the Raritan which is levered and induces a to and from motion of the entire assembly, which likely is adding to the causes of the fatigue and cracking.
So to mitigate the vulnerability in the design, I’ll now adhere to a more rigid lubrication schedule.

 

[Ralph Johnstone]

So to mitigate the vulnerability in the design, I’ll now adhere to a more rigid lubrication schedule.

And .......................... if you don't like digging in the bottom of the pump because you DO know what's been in there, you can build a little grease gun like this :

................................. remove the piston rod gland and go in through the top of the cylinder. Press the1/8" poly tube up against the cylinder walls and supply a tbsp. or two of grease to the walls.

 

[Peggie Hall HeadMistress]

The only argument I can offer to counter the theory of a water mineral buildup is that my joker valve spends the vast majority of its time in fresh water due to the flushing arrangement which you introduced me to numerous years ago.

Ralph, SEA water mineral buildup in head plumbing is common in boats in salt water, but mineral buildup is only one thing that can wear out a joker valve. Every flush, even just water or "dry flushed" urine, that goes through it stretches the "lips." When the joker valve is new, the lips can completely re-close...but repeated stretching gradually reduces their ability to do that, so the slit gradually gets wider. As a result, flushing gradually requires an increasing number of pumps to move bowl contents. until it becomes a hole that can no longer create ANY vacuum. It's usually the same people who tell new boat owners they need to pump a manual toilet 10-20 times who also tell you they haven't replaced their joker valve in 5, even as long as 10 years

--Peggie