Third summer, boat wont sail

[gtg]

I have been taking classes, sailing boats but my 1974 Catalina 22 is a wild horse . Dont really notice till I needed to sail up wind, round a mark, sail back into the cove. Just misses the mark. Last sail was a red light, again. I was on a Starboard tack, my rudder is breaking all the way to port to sail straight other wise we would fall off. It is weather helm I guess. Also boat looses the race down wind as well.

I have tuned the mast in the past, racked the mast.

I recently took measurements of the mast position relative to the bow of the boat. Took measure of the forestay and both halyard lengths. Been reading the Technical Manual about set up. Any definitive number ranges I should be comparing to on the internet?

I have taken the ASA classes, the US sailing instructors small boat class, so I have looked into sail shape and boom angle. I can sail other boats proficiently this Catalina 22 is unbalanced.

There is small cancer the size off a half baseball. I have pictures of keel angel too.

Is it possible my bow has water in the fiberglass? What would make a boat so weird?

Any of you sailors ran into a similar predicament? I am stumped

 

[kappykaplan]

There is small cancer the size off a half baseball. I have pictures of keel angel too.

Please post photos.

 

[gtg]

Please post photos.

 

[stickinthemud57]

Heavens to Betsy. Everything that follows is secondary to the fact that the bottom and especially the centerboard of your boat are extremely fouled. The turbulence that creates will make it difficult to impossible to tune this boat properly. All this needs to be made smooth before you can hope to approach the finer aspects of tuning and balance.

That said...

From my limited experience, performance of the Catalina 22 is all over the map. Some of them win races consistently, others trail far behind.

The PHRF of this boat ranges from 243 to 280, depending on the flavor, but there is a Cat 22 that sails in our local races and regattas (and kicks ass in races throughout the southwest) that is rated at 270 that routinely kicks my ass, even though my handicap is 228. I would attribute this to the following:

-The experience and talent of the skipper
-The quality and dedication of the crew
-The quality and balance of the sail package
-The tuning of the boat in general

In your description of the problem, the only descriptor that my little brain can start to understand is "weather helm". Weather helm is primarily a result of an imbalance between the power of the foresail and the mainsail. A small, light boat like the Cat 22 cannot be expected to sail as well as larger boats when overpowered, so learning how to manage that balance (foresail selection, reefing, cunningham adjustment, dumping wind as needed, etc.) will be key in learning how to tame it.

The Cat 22's I am familiar with have a swing keel, placing 550lbs of ballast below the waterline. It makes me wonder whether the other boats that you can sail proficiently are true fixed keelboats, most of which will have upwards of 1000 lbs of ballast below the waterline. This makes the Cat 22 much less forgiving when the sails are overloaded.

What kind of foresail are you flying? 100, 135, 150%? Hank on or roller furled? Is there any kind of wind condition that the boat is happier with than others?

I don't think that a bump the size of half a baseball is going to have a big impact on overall behavior.

My advice is to replace or recondition that keel and smooth up the finish below the waterline. Once that is done, find a Cat 22 owner/skipper willing to help you get your boat tuned. Offer whatever it takes - steak dinners, free lawn service, whatever - to get them to come sailing with you and help identify what might be affecting the tuning of your boat.

 

[Leeward Rail]

Is it possible my bow has water in the fiberglass?

No. The c22 hulls don't have coring. Fiberglass doesn't absorb water like wood or foam etc. Are you asking because the boat isn't sitting level on it's water line ?
(Most c22s sit a little low in the stern unless you put more gear/weight in the bow. Keeping the boat flat improves performance)

 

[Leeward Rail]

That keel looks in horrible shape. Probably the worst I have seen on a c22

It should work as a foil/wing. In that condition it will make the boat slow and won't work as intended. It would definitely affect handling

I would be worried that if the rest of the rudder is rusted like that, that the pivot pin and rest of the swing keel system is in bad shape. You don't want it to fail.

 

[stickinthemud57]

Leeward describes it very well. Just as an airplane's wings (and a sailboat's sails) need to be reasonably smooth, so do the hull and control surfaces under the waterline.

 

[High Current]

As others have noted, that fin is pretty gnarly!!

Starboard tack, my rudder is breaking all the way to port to sail straight other wise we would fall off. It is weather helm I guess

That sounds like LEE helm / too much force on the bow / not enough on the rudder. The fin could definitely play a role. On my O’day 16 that had a sticky centerboard, I had to learn to sheet in the jib SLOWLY if I lost speed during a tack or I’d be on a broad reach by the time I was moving fast enough to regain steerageway. If you don’t have good underwater foils this could be happening to you all the time. You could try deliberately over-slacking the jib and over-sheeting the main to see if it balances better.

Same trick worked great on my Hunter 25 too by the way - when tacking through crowded harbors you don’t want the wind catching your bow and pointing you at someone’s million dollar yacht!

 

[dlochner]

The term weather helm comes from the position of the tiller, which will be to the windward side. The opposite is lee helm when the tiller must be pushed to the leeward side of the boat.

A little weather helm is generally good. Lee helm is always bad. If the boat has weather helm it will want to turn towards the wind, thus if something happens a tiller breaks (been there done that) or helms person drops the tiller the boat will turn into the wind and stop. In the same situations with lee helm the boat will turn down wind and run off or jibe.

The bottom and keel need serious attention.

Helm issues that you describe can be caused by poor rig tuning, worn out sails, poor sail trim, improper mast position, or the keel being off center.

How old are the sails?
How did you tune the rig?
Are you sure the masthead is centered over the midline?

 

[rgranger]

I think we are being punked…

 

[DaveJ]

Maybe you are using the wrong anchor?
Or your henway is the wrong weight?
Good luck.

 

[Stu Jackson]

How old are the sails?

What size jib in what knot wind? (I had a 1981 C22 for many years, it sailed great.)

 

[JBP-PA]

Maybe you are using the wrong anchor?
Or your henway is the wrong weight?
Good luck.

What's a henway?

 

[JBP-PA]

@gtg, my best guess based on what you have said is your sails are very old and baggy, thus you are pointing too high to gain enough speed for your centerboard to get enough lift even though the sails appear full. This is further exacerbated by the hull fouling slowing you down. Unless you get some speed, your centerboard will slip sideways, forcing you to keep the tiller well over just to stay straight. Try falling off another 5-10 degrees and see if gets better.

 

[Kings Gambit]

An old, stretched out, baggy mainsail can and does cause weather helm. The bagginess allows the draft (deep, curved part of the sail) to migrate aft, moving the center of effort of the sail plan aft, thus pushing the sternward portion of the boat away from the wind, which causes the bow to turn up toward the wind.

Depending on severity, you might attempt the following. Rig a Cunningham if you have a cringle in the mainsail for one. Tightening it will pull the mainsail draft forward. Ease your traveler to full leeward when the boat begins to become overpowered. Tension your backstay adjuster if you have one. This should flatten the mainsail near the top of the mast, reducing the heeling force there. Either recut your mainsail or get a new one if it is old. Anything over 10 yr most, I think, would agree is an old sail. Of course, use the properly-sized headsail for the conditions. If you depend on roller furling of the headsail then it should be “reef-able.” That is, the headsail is cut and made with a foam luff that allows reefing of the headsail.

As for the bottom, board, get them cleaned up. Get to work!!

 

[Jacktar]

Take a look at your rudder too, if classic tilt up may not be holding all the way down which will give you a weather helm constantly.

 

[Siamese]

Yikes. Definitely gnarly. I wouldn't sail that boat again until after I'd removed the keel and thoroughly renovated it. There are videos on this process. Also, I'd want to know what the condition the keel bolt is. And probably replace it, based on what I'm seeing in the pictures.

So, I'd start with making the keel look like new, and then address the hull, and move on to the rig and the sails.

 

[Don S/V ILLusion]

Nothing is going to help the problem if that bottom condition Isn’t fixed first.

 

[rgranger]

Nothing is going to help the problem if that bottom condition Isn’t fixed first.

Yep!
It is possible to restore your keel... If you go that route, there are several of us on this forum who have experience doing this. I've done four (two MacGregor V21s, a MacGregor V2-22 and a Balboa 26)

Before and after shots of the Balboa 26...

 

[rgranger]

Also, I'd want to know what the condition the keel bolt is.