Caveat: Worst marine toilet in history

[DianaOfBurlington]

Johnson SFX compact toilet. $129.99 at Defender. Bought as ‘expedient’ alternative to restoring 1970s Raritan Compact head that was original to boat (sadly now lost).

1. All-plastic construction. Pump mounts using sheet-metal screws into blind holes in base. These screws must be kept in tension to ensure flapper valve/gasket does not leak. Any disassembly destroys plastic threads and causes a leak.

2. Undersized (metric) discharge elbow does not fit world-standard 1-1/2” hose. World-standard type-148 hose will NOT crush enough to seal, guaranteeing that any pumping will pour bowl contents out onto the cabin sole. (See photo of micrometer.)

3. No online service or tech help. No phone number to call. No e-mail contact. No warranty information. Johnson is a world leader in raw-water and bilge pumps. But none of them know anything about this toilet.

4. Defender is of no help at all. My experience is that they have no expertise about products they sell. Every time I’ve called to get help, I find I know more than they do; their advice seems silly. Why did I bother calling them then?

I attempted to remedy the discharge-elbow problem by substituting a Raritan elbow for the undersized original. Spent an hour gauging the fit and then sanding the plastic mounting flange to achieve a really good seal. The flange part of the joker valve is in fact the sealing gasket (same as with Raritan) so I ensured that was was soundly clamped.

Could not align hose to 90-degree elbow without removing pump; so removed pump from base, then could not align pump to base with hose connected; so unbolted toilet from shelf. Reassembled as required. (BTW I have like 40 yrs’ experience with installing and maintaining/rebuilding boat toilets.) Tested pump for leaks using river water before bolting down toilet. Seemed okay.

Pushed toilet into position to align mounting bolts. Dropped one into place. Toilet gushed water from pump base. Apparently the flexing of pump where screwed to base opened up a leak. Yet screws were properly done; surfaces met adequately.

This pump is NOT meant to be maintained or rebuilt since flapper valve doesn’t realign itself and sheet-metal screws rely on virgin factory holes in the plastic base. You take it apart, you'll replace the whole toilet. End of story.

I’ve left it bad reviews on Amazon and at Defender.

Realized this toilet will never be reliable, removed it, photographed it for this post, and will shortly fling it (never used) into the dumpster. Ordered new JABSCO toilet through distribution. Will install (with all new hose) tomorrow. Trip south delayed down to all this hassle - got nothing else done today while wrestling with this junk.

(Did I say how happy I always am to have SO MUCH MONEY that I can afford to spend it in good faith on things that don’t work and whose makers don’t care about their customers?)

You have been warned by a 50-yr veteran of the industry.

Lessons learned:

1. Defender is fine so long as you know EXACTLY what you’re buying and WILL NOT need tech help. Same as with Amazon.

2. I’ll never buy anything from Johnson again.

3. You get what you pay for.

 

[kappykaplan]

Sorry to read of your marine toilet woes.

You get what you pay for.

Yes!

 

[thinwater]

Re. Self-taping threads in plastic.

They are only destroyed when re-assymbling if you do it wrong. Insert the screw and turn backwards by hand until you feel the original thread. Then gently start by hand. Tighten as usual. In this way you are not cutting new threads each time. A good rule to remember for wood screws also.

Not sayin' bolts aren't better, just sayin' you can live better with plastic if you know the rules. I didn't know this rule until someone explained it to me (the Head Mistress).

 

[dlochner]

Thank you for the review of the Johnson toilet. I have to agree with @kappykaplan, you get what you pay for. That is especially true in the recreational boating market.

As for Defender, I have found the staff to very knowledgeable and helpful, although I have never asked for advice on plumbing products. As for Amazon and tech help? You have to be kidding me.

As for never buying another Johnson product, I think you will find that in most case Jabsco is far inferior, especially in the marine sanitation world. But, you're selling your boat and it will be the next owner's problem.

 

[Stu Jackson]

Realized this toilet will never be reliable, removed it, photographed it for this post, and will shortly fling it (never used) into the dumpster. Ordered new JABSCO toilet through distribution.

AFTER ALL THAT SH*T and knowing you frequent this website, you MUST be aware of Peggie Hall's excellent work. Whether through her BOOK or her posts or her frequent contributor status here, I find it remarkable that you are unaware of her steady and persistent encouragement to boaters that the best marine manual head is made by Raritan.
Good luck with your second best Jabsco.
For what you've spent, you could have gotten a good one to start off with.
Best of luck.

 

[Scott T-Bird]

I've been to Defender's brick & mortar store numerous times and been on the phone with them as well. While I generally have found them to be quite knowledgeable and helpful on just about any topic, I'll have to admit that I did find them quite useless in the toilet department! I had to figure that out on my own ... and I threw out every brand but Raritan for consideration.

 

[DianaOfBurlington]

I threw out every brand but Raritan for consideration.

Agreed; Raritan, a NJ company, has been the Cadillac of boat toilets for as long as I can remember. Original equipment on all Marlboro-built Hunters of the ‘70s. I would have a PH Compact ASAP if it were not twice the cost of what I just spent on the JABSCO. At least the JABSCO has maintenance kits and replacement parts available. The Johnson has nothing for it.

 

[dlochner]

Agreed; Raritan, a NJ company, has been the Cadillac of boat toilets for as long as I can remember. Original equipment on all Marlboro-built Hunters of the ‘70s. I would have a PH Compact ASAP if it were not twice the cost of what i just spent on the JABSCO. At least the JABSCO has maintenance kits and replacement parts available. The Johnson has nothing for it.

It is telling that the Jabsco rebuild kits are almost as expensive as a new Jabsco toilet.

 

[DianaOfBurlington]

As for never buying another Johnson product, I think you will find that in most case Jabsco is far inferior, especially in the marine sanitation world. But, you're selling your boat and it will be the next owner's problem.

I’m not selling the boat. I’ve delayed the ICW trip yet another week to sort out the toilet issue.

I have been a staunch defender of Defender till I bought a defective Weems & Plath clock and found neither they nor W&P would stand by it - that is till I literally threatened them with bad reviews whilst I was working the Annapolis show. After that, I found the toilet to be a POJ and found the same lack of customer service from Defender and the factory.

Resellers need to stand by what they SELL - not pass you off to the makers (their vendors, but not YOUR vendors). If Defender’s vendors supply Defender’s customers with bad products, that’s Defender’s problem and Defender can take it up with Defender’s vendors. Their FIRST priority should be to make Defender’s customer happy; and like Big Blue (WM) they’ve learned how to neglect or forget that.
I’ll continue to buy from either but I’ll take the promise of support with a grain of salt and will apply the buying-from-Amazon rule: Know The Product First. I’ve found Vela, Fisheries Supply and Green Boat Stuff to be much more helpful and usually cheaper anyway.

 

[DianaOfBurlington]

I find it remarkable that you are unaware of her steady and persistent encouragement to boaters that the best marine manual head is made by Raritan.
Good luck with your second best Jabsco.
For what you've spent, you could have gotten a good one to start off with.

I am very well familiar with Peggie and all she does. It doesn’t mean I don’t have my own conclusions after 50 years of the boatbuilding industry with plumbing being a speciality.

The Johnson POJ and the JABSCO together cost less than the Raritan PH Compact, which is what I’ll get when I have the funds for it. The JABSCO has never been my preference. At least has parts and kits available. I’ll replace it next season in Florida.

 

[DianaOfBurlington]

They are only destroyed when re-assymbling if you do it wrong.

The stripped blind threads aren’t the only problem. And of course I know how to reinstall it. I felt the threads let go the moment I backed them off. That meant a goner right there. Thing was designed to be not disassembled without fatal damage (low-end product with no maintenance kit available for under-35 ‘everything’s disposable’ consumer generation, or motorboaters; take your pick - Ranger Tugs use these exclusively). Should have dropped glue or something down each hole - and did consider LifeSeal (as I was certain I’d never disassemble it again); but it was difficult enough just getting the pieces lined up and the flapper valve in right (it didn’t realign with its own locator divots which may have been the problem).

 

[DianaOfBurlington]

It is telling that the Jabsco rebuild kits are almost as expensive as a new Jabsco toilet.

At least they ARE available! You can build your own complete toilet from their parts list. It’s like a Jeep or an original VW Beetle.

 

[Rick D]

Suffering with you! As Peggie Hall would tell you, I have had Jabsco (manual) heads on my boats for 32 years. Basically, I change out the pump assembly proactively every year or two. I once purchased a Johnson which looked like a direct copy of the Jabsco for a trial since it was just a bit more than the new pump. And, my experience with Johnson's other products was satisfactory. My experience was the same as yours and it ended up unused in some landfill.

 

[thinwater]

Suffering with you! As Peggie Hall would tell you, I have had Jabsco (manual) heads on my boats for 32 years. Basically, I change out the pump assembly proactively every year or two. I once purchased a Johnson which looked like a direct copy of the Jabsco for a trial since it was just a bit more than the new pump. And, my experience with Johnson's other products was satisfactory. My experience was the same as yours and it ended up unused in some landfill.

Try to do all maintanance proactivly. It is SO much easier to work on any head that is still flushing, and that you can clean before working on it by flushing with clean water and either bleach or vinegar. or citric acid. Don't wait until it is truly broken.

Joker valve every few years. Tip: the Raritan PH II joker valve fits the Jabsco perfectly and lasts 3 years instead of 1-2, so forget the Jabsco joker valve.

Forget the rebuild kits. After replacing the joker once or twice with a Raritan valve, just replace the pump. An easy 10-minute job. Yes, it costs most of a new head, but it is a much easier job.

 

[Peggie Hall HeadMistress]

Joker valve in any manual toilet should be replaced at least annually...here's why:

(Excerpt from my book)
Most people think that the only thing the joker valve does is act as a check valve to stop backflow from returning to the toilet or odor from the tank from escaping through the toilet. But that's the joker valve's LEAST important function...in fact, the joker valve is THE single most important replaceable part in a manual toilet. Here's why:

On the upstroke of the piston, a vacuum is created in the area beneath the piston. This causes the joker valve to close tightly, and the flapper valve beneath the pump to open, allowing some of the contents of the toilet bowl to be drawn into the bottom half of the pump. Then, on the down stroke of the piston, the flapper valve is slammed shut, and the effluent is forced out of the bottom of the pump, through the joker valve, and off down the line. But when the joker valve becomes worn and/or there's a buildup of sea water minerals on it, it can no longer seal tightly on the upstroke of the piston so less and less vacuum is created, requiring more and more pumping to move bowl contents.

You prob'ly won't notice the loss of efficiency at first because it's so gradual. But I guarantee you that if it's been two years or longer since you replaced the joker valve, you need to pump the toilet at least 50% more times to move the bowl contents to the tank or all the way out the thru-hull....IF they're getting there at all any more.

--Peggie

 

[Head Sail]

Joker valve in any manual toilet should be replaced at least annually...here's why:

My experience with the Jabsco: After 9 years of use day sailing and the occasional weekend overnighter I must have been very lucky. I never lubed the pump, used only salt water flush, and an occasional women on board, I only removed the joler valve once to unclog.

 

[Calif. Ted]

Am I correct that you have done a 10 year on the hard refit of a 25' boat, are now stuck in place due to a "bargain" toilet, and you are a professional with 50 years experience ? I think there is a lot we can all learn from your situation; I've been trying to decide whether to re-build or replace my 12 YO Raritan.

 

[Ralph Johnstone]

I've been trying to decide whether to re-build or replace my 12 YO Raritan.

Didn't you intend to say "replace my 12 YO Jabsco" ?

 

[Tally Ho]

My boat is a 1988 model, and I have a Raritan manual toilet. I rebuilt the toilet pump a few years after I bought the boat in 2014. I did lube the pump a year ago or 2. Pump works great, was out on the hook for 2 night/3 days a few weeks, and “put the toilet through its paces” if you know what I mean….no issues.

Probably time to lube the pump, and order a spare joker valve.

Replaced the pump assembly on the Jabsco toilet on my previous boat, and it still wasn’t worth a crap (pun intended;-)


Greg

 

[Peggie Hall HeadMistress]

12 years is middle age for a Raritan PHII unless it's been seriously neglected. It can easily provide up to 25 years of durable reliable service with minumum repairs if it's just kept well lubricated , gets a new joker valve at least annually and a rebuild kit ( about $60) every 5-6 years. Those owners who claim it works great despite not considering it necessary to follow that maintenance schedule don't know how great it would be working if they did...most likely because they only have toilets they traded up from to compare with it.

--Peggie