Chainplates for Drogue

[jssailem]

That is, in any practical way ... less practical than it sounds.

I am not a licensed engineer so I have no official comment on the practicality of the information.

From my research into the issues of heavy weather sailing, my go to is to utilize the "Hove-To" skills I practice yearly, and avoid the conditions in coastal water sailing usng weather forecasting as a practical measure.

The concepts of where to position a sea anchor were explored by the US Navy and studied by the US Coast Guard. The USCG published their work in May of 87 "Investigation of the Use of Drogues to Improve the Safety of Sailing Yachts". The full report can be found here. https://www.jordanseriesdrogue.com/pdf/droguecoastguardreport.pdf

They concluded that the best practice was the use of a "Drogue". The Jordon Drogue was tested and used for the CG report. Practical Sailor (of which Thinwater is a contributor) has published much on the Jordon Drogue.

If I was going to be at sea for a long passage, I would make the $2K investment in a Jordan Drogue sized for my craft and work to never have to deploy it.

The concept of the second wave distance from the boat was identifeid in the CG report. Practical or not, it's application is to maximize the opportunity for the drogue or sea anchor to stay buried in the water and not be pulled out of the water as the boat rises and falls on the waves.

The work of many suggest 100 meters of rode to accomplish this condition is not impractical.

Here is an image from the CG report illustrating what the CG considered.

It is up to each skipper what safety plans and considerations to make, that are practical, for the safety of their crew and boat.

 

[All U Get]

I am not a licensed engineer so I have no official comment on the practicality of the information.

From my research into the issues of heavy weather sailing, my go to is to utilize the "Hove-To" skills I practice yearly, and avoid the conditions in coastal water sailing usng weather forecasting as a practical measure.

The concepts of where to position a sea anchor were explored by the US Navy and studied by the US Coast Guard. The USCG published their work in May of 87 "Investigation of the Use of Drogues to Improve the Safety of Sailing Yachts". The full report can be found here. https://www.jordanseriesdrogue.com/pdf/droguecoastguardreport.pdf

They concluded that the best practice was the use of a "Drogue". The Jordon Drogue was tested and used for the CG report. Practical Sailor (of which Thinwater is a contributor) has published much on the Jordon Drogue.

If I was going to be at sea for a long passage, I would make the $2K investment in a Jordan Drogue sized for my craft and work to never have to deploy it.

The concept of the second wave distance from the boat was identifeid in the CG report. Practical or not, it's application is to maximize the opportunity for the drogue or sea anchor to stay buried in the water and not be pulled out of the water as the boat rises and falls on the waves.

The work of many suggest 100 meters of rode to accomplish this condition is not impractical.

Here is an image from the CG report illustrating what the CG considered.
View attachment 207728

It is up to each skipper what safety plans and considerations to make, that are practical, for the safety of their crew and boat.

Ours was 300 foot long and was never used over the last decade. Probably because I relied on good weather forecasts from CP weather routing.

 

[thinwater]

I have towed drogues in gale and near gale conditions many times for research. A drogue element pulls out when it loaded at a critical speed (> 5 knots--at lower speeds they generally remain stable) and is on the face of the wave, since it is, in effect, at low scope with the rode pulling upwards. The problem with any single-element drogue is that when the waves get big enough to REALLY, save-your-ship matter, the frequency will vary and at some point it will be on the face of the wave. Confused waves of varying wavelengths, after all, are the dangerous kind that break. The nylon rode then contracts (recoils), making it seem that the drogue was thrown forward, and leaving the boat with no drogue until the rode comes tight again.

This is part of the genius of the JSD; it is never dependent on any one cone. Another is staying below the critical speed; it is very difficult to design a drogue that is stable in survival conditions above about 4 knots.

 

[capta]

In my opinion, you'd be wasting your money setting up for a drogue. When I left California in 1970, for my circumnavigation, I had a drogue set up, a sea anchor, as was common then.
The sea anchor put too much pressure on the rudder and was immediately cut free. The drogue slowed me down so much, I was getting continuously pooped, so I made my way aft and cut that free as well.
After that, I either hove-to or sailed through the bad weather.

 

[thinwater]

In my opinion, you'd be wasting your money setting up for a drogue. When I left California in 1970, for my circumnavigation, I had a drogue set up, a sea anchor, as was common then.
The sea anchor put too much pressure on the rudder and was immediately cut free. The drogue slowed me down so much, I was getting continuously pooped, so I made my way aft and cut that free as well.
After that, I either hove-to or sailed through the bad weather.

This depends a lot on the size and design of the boat. For larger monos, your choices make sense and others have reported the same experiences.

For multihulls, a properly sized (not too small) sea anchor can hold the boat motionless and does not put pressure on the rudder. Proper size is the key. Heaving to in a multi is extremely foolish in survival conditions (rough it can be OK, but not survival conditions). Trimarans will have a leeward float push under by breaking waves on the beam, and cats will just flip.

Pooping in multis is unusual; they easily rise with the waves. Unrestrained, they can also accelerate way too fast and bury bows in the troughs. A drogue also makes steering much easier on the autopilot. Often a drogue is valuable just to make the ride smoother, with less yawing.

It also depends on crew size. Drogues can give singlehanders a break, which can be important to survival or even just comfort.

Light monos I will not comment on; no survival weather experience.

No one rule. Reading and practice in moderately bad conditions is vital.

 

[capta]

Well, if one were to suggest that I know little or nothing about multihulls, it might surprise them that I sailed a Brown 37 from Pago Pago thru the Torres Strait and across the Indian Ocean to the Seychelles. From there we sailed up the Red Sea, across the Med and down to the Canary Islands. Compared to the trip from Gib to the Canaries, the transAt was a breeze, as we were in the storm which took the life of Alan Colas, along with at least 12 others.
I was already sailing when I met Arthur Piver and spent time with Rudy Choy in Hawaii, messing around with his boats.

 

[thinwater]

Well, if one were to suggest that I know little or nothing about multihulls, it might surprise them that I sailed a Brown 37 from Pago Pago thru the Torres Strait and across the Indian Ocean to the Seychelles. From there we sailed up the Red Sea, across the Med and down to the Canary Islands. Compared to the trip from Gib to the Canaries, the transAt was a breeze, as we were in the storm which took the life of Alan Colas, along with at least 12 others.
I was already sailing when I met Arthur Piver and spent time with Rudy Choy in Hawaii, messing around with his boats.

Cool. Was anything I said wrong, or just difference of opinion?

I think it is worth adding that chain plates are only indicated for a JSD in survival conditions. Other drogues are bettre controlled from winches, which are well within their normal working load range for the job.