Catalina Smile and what bottom paint is the best value?

Nov 11, 2021
41
Lancer 30-2 Marina Del Rey
I bought a Catalina 30 two days ago without a survey and got stuck with a Catalina Smile. The boat had an inch of water in the bilge and the seller feined surprise and claimed he was away during a recent rainstorm and that the water must have leaked in. Not being afraid of a little water with an inboard and its inherent packing gland drip, and due to the pristine condition of the bilge, I did not investigate further. My mistake.

If I do most of the grunt work myself, it won't be too bad financially. I got taken by a sob story of six months of sobriety in an alcoholic family, and moving to Hawaii to get away from temptation--along with a $9000 price for a boat that should sell for $12 to $15K Overall a clean boat with bowsprit, tall rig, a Helm and a Universal M18, which seemed to run fine (with an hour test drive) but was very difficult to start. After having the injectors cleaned, now it runs fine.

I have read the white papers from Catalina on how to fix the "Smile"--includes removing the plywood sandwich between the keel bolts, which appears to be a real job. Both the bilge and the keel bolts (stainless steel) look almost new. Any advice on how to cut through the fiberglass in the bilge and remove the plywood would be appreciated. Catalina says to chisel it out. I would like a power option. Am thinking of trying one of the small 20V chain saws to rip it into dust and shop vac it away--although I have never used one of these saws, and am very partial to all ten of my fingers...

But the real reason for this post is about bottom paint. I have 30 years of experience boating in fresh water, but this is my first-year sailing in the ocean, in Marina Del Rey, CA. I am an experienced painter and since the boat needs bottom paint, I will do it myself at haulout. The first slot on the hard is in 26 days. I would like to order the paint to try and save money. The boatyards want $1600 to $2000 to paint, and I can use this savings to help pay the experienced boat repairman at my marina who knows how to fiberglass professionally. Between me removing the undoubtedly soft wood from the core and repainting, I am hoping to only spend two or three thousand for the repair and the materials I need to paint.

What bottom paint is the best value? (I have the bottom cleaned monthly) Thanks all!
 
Jan 4, 2006
7,176
Hunter 310 West Vancouver, B.C.
Both the bilge and the keel bolts (stainless steel) look almost new.
Clean keel bolts are always a good sign. No crevice corrosion and no worries about replacement. Clean bilge ............ maybe the leak just started as he says OR he cleaned the bilge under cover of darkness. No way to tell.

What bottom paint is the best value? (I have the bottom cleaned monthly)
I presume you know all about bottom paints, hard and soft coverage ? As far as best value, tough choice. You want the best bottom paint FOR YOUR AREA as recommended by other sailors. I've got mine, but it's no good in your backyard. And don't bother listening to powerboaters as they're pretty much a lost cause at the best of times.
 

Joe

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Jun 1, 2004
8,165
Catalina 27 Mission Bay, San Diego
Honestly, if you're having a diver clean the bottom monthly, it really doesn't matter too much about paint brands. You'll just need a hard shell (modified epoxy) rather than an ablative.

If you DIY in a yard, make sure you understand their conditions. Most require you buy the paint from them, so be discreet. To save time and muscle, have your diver clean your boat's bottom a day or so before the haul out and then have him delay service a couple months till the paint's completely hardened.

The last 2 haul outs I've used this:
 
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Jan 7, 2011
5,467
Oday 322 East Chicago, IN
… and moving to Hawaii to get away from temptation…
Well that makes NO sense to me whatsoever :cool:

Bikini Blondes and Mai Tai’s are my temptation!

But good luck with the boat issues….I am sure with a little hard work you can fix her up…and maybe some of that water was rain water. Did you taste it to see if it was salty?

Greg
 

Ward H

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Nov 7, 2011
3,774
Catalina 30 Mk II Cedar Creek, Bayville NJ
Congratulations on becoming a C30 owner.

Both the bilge and the keel bolts (stainless steel) look almost new.
Thats a good sign.
I’m curious what’s indicating you have to repair the keel stub.
Do the washers and nuts on the keel bolts look like they are being pulled into the fiberglass?
Did somebody dive on the boat to check the keel and report separation at the keel /stub joint?
Did you dry out the bilge only to find water seeping in from around the bolts?
Like Greg asked, are you sure it’s salt water?

How about a few photos of your new boat?
 
Dec 23, 2016
191
Catalina 27 Clinton CT
Don't go in through the bilge if the boat is on the hard. The fix isn't really bad on the hard. Get the boat up in the travel lift for a few hours and drop the keel a little bit by loosening the keel bolts. Dig out the we wood , replace and torque the bolts back down once they re block the keel. I have done a few of these and helped with others
 
Jan 19, 2010
12,553
Hobie 16 & Rhodes 22 Skeeter Charleston
Maybe an oscillating multi tool to clean out the old material? Probably safer and more controllable than a chain saw.
That is what I was going to say. I love mine. Got it for X-mas two years ago and find myself using ALL the time.

Something along this line of thinking... GO CHORDLESS

1643986617140.png
 

Tom J

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Sep 30, 2008
2,322
Catalina 310 Quincy, MA
Well that makes NO sense to me whatsoever :cool:

Bikini Blondes and Mai Tai’s are my temptation!

But good luck with the boat issues….I am sure with a little hard work you can fix her up…and maybe some of that water was rain water. Did you taste it to see if it was salty?

Greg
For me, it's the Coconut Porter, Greg, but the Bikini Blond is excellent, too!
I find it hard to understand why a boat builder would use plywood in the keel bed. I had an issue with my old O'Day 23, where the builder counter bored the keel bed, and left only 1/8" of fiberglass to support the keel. The bolts did hold for 20 years, but then finally pulled through the fiberglass. :banghead:
 
Jan 18, 2016
782
Catalina 387 Dana Point
What year is the C-30? Catalina changed the design around '88 or so.

Also, a "smile" is not always indicative of rotting plywood in the keel stub. It's quite often just loss of fairing material between keel and hull, and that's a very easy thing to fix. I'd want additional information to confirm that ripping out the stub and reglassing it is necessary.
 

dmax

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Jul 29, 2018
1,159
Telstar 28 Buzzards Bay
The smile can also be caused by improper blocking when the boat is on the hard, especially if it's a wing keel. Like jeepblue says, a smile doesn't necessarily mean the plywood has rotted. There's lots of info out there on repairing the smile, this thread talks about blocking it properly: Blocking for under Wing Keel on 1987 C34
 
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Nov 11, 2021
41
Lancer 30-2 Marina Del Rey
@ jeepbluetj a "smile" is not always indicative of rotting plywood in the keel stub. It's quite often just loss of fairing material between keel and hull

There is nothing on the boat to indicate neglect. I prior owner bought the boat six months ago when he moved to L.A. as a liveaboard. He knows nothing of the past owners. I can tell by the rigging, electronics, and general condition that the boat was cared for. The only evidence of any problem is in the bilge compartment of the V-berth. There is evidence of repeated salt water exposure, including salt deposits that would attract wildlife in the mountains. It almost looks like someone sprinkled sea salt there.

How do I confirm that the bilge needs to be ripped up. I watched a video of someone drilling and inspecting the wood. In their case, it was wet, but looked normal. Turns out there was some rotting, but it was very difficult to remove the old wood--in this case. I have no idea what fairing material is and how to see if there is a deficiency that caused the "Smile". How do I test?

Thanks
 
Nov 11, 2021
41
Lancer 30-2 Marina Del Rey
@ Ward H I’m curious what’s indicating you have to repair the keel stub.

I don't have many pics yet.

The diver who cleans my boat said he could see a Cat Smile in the front of the keel. Does not wrap around. He says he can see the lead. The boat leaks in excess of 5 gallons per 24 hours. I don't know how much because I check it and use a shop vac in the morning before work, and in the evening after work. I have no idea if, or how many times, the bilge pumps out water. The diver does not see any damage to the boat. I am just guessing that it is leaking through the keel bolts. I will vaccum it completely, dry it with towels, and put paper towels on each of the bolts to see if I have a winner. Don't really know what else to do. Wish I could hoist it up sooner than March 1.

I certainly would like to try Pirate Dave's idea of hoisting it up. loosening the bolts, digging out the wood, tightening the bolts and patching the outside.
 

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Jul 6, 2013
223
Catalina 30TR, Atomic 4 2480 Milwaukee
Water in the bilge area under the v-berth would be in no way related to the Catalina Smile.
Unfortunately, there’s no drain there, so water just accumulates. If it’s saltwater, then it likely came in while under sail. Through the hatch, or the anchor locker, or through the joint between the hull and the deck.
I think you should just suck it out with a wet vac, and then keep an eye on it, watching for any water intrusion.
After the boat is hauled, you can inspect the keel. If it looks concerning, then check back in on this forum (with photos).
The C-30 is a great boat. If you only have to fix up a few minor things, then I think you got a good bargain.
 
Nov 11, 2021
41
Lancer 30-2 Marina Del Rey
Joe, Thanks for the tip, but it is not for use in California. Why? All the oceans are connected?
Any other ideas?
Thanks

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