How's Your Bottom Doing These Days ?

[sloughsailer]

You clearly need regular in-water hull cleaning. Why not hire a diver to do it at your marina?

This isn't like the bay. There is no visibility and the water is so shallow the diver would be laying in the mud.

There is a good spot with a sandy bottom near the confluence of the San Joaquin and Sacramento rivers that I often use to dive on the bottom. But it's an all day trip up and back.

Now I hear the Bay Conservation and Development Commission is trying to ban in water bottom cleaning. I don't know how that would be enforced. But they have already caused some DIY yards to close.

 

[fstbttms]

Now I hear the Bay Conservation and Development Commission is trying to ban in water bottom cleaning. But they have already caused some DIY yards to close.

None of that is remotely true.

 

[jssailem]

Ralph, your post catches me in the middle of considering my next bottom paint job.

I spoke with my diver 6 months ago. He said I might consider painting the bottom. There are some spots showing on the bottom of the keel. It was painted in the Spring of 2018. This is now the 3rd season since my last painting. Boat is in the water 365. The paint used was a Navy Blue Pettit ablative product.

In talking with the diver the other day, he was suggesting a bottom paint available at Lowes was being used by some of this customers. It has been holding up well. He thinks about 2 years. Low cost. With the cost of hauls around $300 plus extras, like power wash, one needs to factor that into the equation. The longer the paint is good, the less the per year cost of the paint project.

I hear you can use the Grid up at Comox. 6 hours to paint before the tide comes in.

 

[fstbttms]

In talking with the diver the other day, he was suggesting a bottom paint available at Lowes was being used by some of this customers.

Are you having your bottom cleaned by this guy or is he just checking/replacing anodes?

 

[jeepbluetj]

I wish I could get as long of a time as some of y'all. I have the bottom dived monthly, and by the end of the month it looks like a salad under there. The boat gets used a lot.

Will likely repaint this fall, going to have to figure out what's the best paint in SoCal.

 

[fstbttms]

Will likely repaint this fall, going to have to figure out what's the best paint in SoCal.

What are you using now?

 

[jeepbluetj]

No idea, bought the boat 6 months ago so whatever the P.O. put on it. They didn't keep a maint log. Looked great during the survey haul, but I can tell the waterline is wearing and the diver has switched his paint rating from "good" down a notch. So it's likely this year.

Legend has it around here that if you have the D.P yard do the job it lasts 1 year. Elsewhere/DIY maybe 2. Nobody goes much more than that unless they're just basically working the diver too hard.

 

[fstbttms]

Legend has it around here that if you have the D.P yard do the job it lasts 1 year. Elsewhere/DIY maybe 2. Nobody goes much more than that unless they're just basically working the diver too hard.

Paint longevity is largely based on the amount of product applied. However it is not uncommon for yards to recommend that you only have a single coat put on the bottom, despite the manufacturer's recommendation that you apply two or three coats. Why would a yard do this? Because they know that with a single coat of paint, you'll be back for more in a year or so. Were they to apply two or three, you'd get two or three years between bottom jobs. While the yard is going to sell you the same amount of paint regardless, they get to charge you for more haulouts (and anything else they can upsell you) when you haul annually.

If you want maximum time between haulouts for a new bottom, use a high-copper, high quality hard paint (like Pettit Trinidad) and have the yard apply two coats everywhere with a third at the waterline and leading/trailing edges of the appendages. You will get three to four years between bottom jobs.

 

[jssailem]

Are you having your bottom cleaned

He Cleans the slime, removes any barnacle growth, and does the Zinc's as needed. If I can get out on the boat that helps. But with Covid, and the repairs that has been less frequent than I would like.

 

[fstbttms]

He Cleans the slime, removes any barnacle growth, and does the Zinc's as needed. If I can get out on the boat that helps. But with Covid, and the repairs that has been less frequent than I would like.

That's interesting, considering the cleaning of ablative paints in Washington is illegal.

 

[jssailem]

I know your thinking. But keeping a person in work feeding his family seems like a worthy action till someone decides in the marina that it is not.

 

[fstbttms]

I know your thinking. But keeping a person in work feeding his family seems like a worthy action till someone decides in the marina that it is not.

Don't get me wrong, I think that law is misguided and frankly ridiculous. But your guy should be aware that there are hefty fines involved. On the order of $10K, if I'm not mistaken.

 

[Stu Jackson]

Sorry I'm late to the party here, but had been asked for my input.

I moved here in 2016. We left SF in August and got here in September. My last haulout before I left was in March 2016, one coat of Petit Trinidad Pro at Svendsons back when they were still in Alameda. It was my Haulout #7, having purchased the boat in 1998. Most of the times I got a coat and a half. I only got one then because my previous haulout hadn't been that long ago - I was out again for other reasons and the paint that had been put on recently didn't last when the boat was out of the water, so the insurance company paid for the paint, too. I did not know we were going to move to Canada in March, only learned about it in May and we moved in June, came back and got the boat in August. Fun year there!

I had a diver replace zincs in the water here in Maple Bay in October 2018.

Haulout #8 was in June 2020 with 2 coats Epoxycop. I'd been using hard paints and stuck with it. So it was four years between haulouts this time. There was a horrible growth of barnacles on the shaft and prop. There are no "regular" diving services here, damn it, even with the cold(er) water, lack of use in winter contributes a lot I think.

In SF I had a diver every 3 months, who also dealt with the zincs.

So 8 haulouts in 24 years of ownership, average of once every 3 years; my log shows sometimes every two or three years, once I went five.

I'm not sure whether I'm going to get a short haul for zincs and barnacle removal this fall or wait til spring.

I really miss having a regular diving service. I just haven't gotten into a regular "habit" or pattern here yet. My diver always used to let me know, now I have no resources. Rotten that there's such a lack of "system" with something so important. The bottom looks good, I attribute my slower speed under power to a regrowth of the damned barnacles.

Our harbor is mostly salt water, but sometimes freezes the top layer of surface water bcause there's a fresh water stream at the head of the Bay. I still wouldn't call it brackish, though.

And Matt (@fstbttms ) thanks again for your help back in August 2016 when I was marooned off Sausalito.

 

[Calif. Ted]

I've used Petit Trinidad Pro for decades, 2 coats with a third at the waterline and leading edges, in water and used year round, cleaned monthly by a diver. Used to last 3 years to the day, didn't disappear but if you rubbed lightly with your hand great clouds come off, shouldn't do that unless it's toast. 2010 bought a new boat and had it painted 2011 while hauled because paint looked ok but unknown age. Diver also changed methods to use only towels or carpet scrapes, no 3M or scrubby pads except on running gear. That job actually lasted 6 years to the day and everyone at shipyard was as amazed as I, just a little white showing on a couple leading edges. Now not quite 5 years later and I should have got painted last winter, freaking green crap grows overnight in this warm water season.
I have never had barnacles on my prop and running gear even after the 6 year stretch that's just one of the tougher jobs my diver does monthly.
Shoot, I helped my present diver get his start and now he's the "old" guy in the harbor, one of your best sources for info, they are there every day, all day, they know the other divers, mechanics, canvas guys and boat owners. They hear it all and see far too much.
And don't believe half the crap you hear about the our local shipyard, they can only do what the customer tells them to do, if you want the 1 year paint, that's on you.

 

[fstbttms]

And Matt (@fstbttms ) thanks again for your help back in August 2016 when I was marooned off Sausalito.

 

[fstbttms]

I've used Petit Trinidad Pro for decades, 2 coats with a third at the waterline and leading edges, in water and used year round, cleaned monthly by a diver. Used to last 3 years to the day, didn't disappear but if you rubbed lightly with your hand great clouds come off, shouldn't do that unless it's toast.

A hard paint shouldn't do that ever. If it does, it's likely because the yard (or whomever) put the second coat on too soon, before the solvents in the first coat have flashed off. They are then trapped under the second coat rendering the first coat unstable and much more ablative-like than it otherwise would be.

 

[jeepbluetj]

<snippity>
Shoot, I helped my present diver get his start and now he's the "old" guy in the harbor, one of your best sources for info, they are there every day, all day, they know the other divers, mechanics, canvas guys and boat owners. They hear it all and see far too much.
And don't believe half the crap you hear about the our local shipyard, they can only do what the customer tells them to do, if you want the 1 year paint, that's on you.

That's why I said "Legend Has It" i.e. not personal experience. Prev boat was 2 coats + 1 on the leading edges, and I got good use out of that. Was pretty much toast when I sold the boat though. Was done in Newport (scheduling was the reason).

I'll bet I used the same diver on the old boat. Couldn't do the new one, full up.

 

[MikeHoncho]

Where are all the sailors in the Pacific Northwest ............................. ? Obviously out sailing.

@Stu Jackson , @Hello Below , @YVRguy , @Phil Herring , @jssailem , @leo310 , @Terry Cox , @MikeHoncho , @FastOlson , @Tedd , @Michael Davis , @Tricia , @John Nantz , @ComoxSweetCaroline , @RickSegal , @VisionPNW , @Irek , @DinghySailor , @Ken Cross , @Mark Maulden , @LeslieTroyer , @Bob&Cherie&CM and every other sailor in the PNW.

I would be eternally in your debt if you would be so kind as to supply any information you have regarding your bottom paint:

I'm curious to hear:
- what is the brand name of your bottom paint
- what are your results
- years between re-coating
- where is your location
- what is your water like
- whether you periodically scrub in the water
- and any other pertinent information and remarks you could share.

Thanks very much for your help.

Sailing or cleaning my bottom myself because I’m on season 6 with my bottom paint that the previous owner applied. I wish I would have written the brand down when he told me. I believe he said it was hard but clouds of red comes off when I scrub it with a white 3m scrubby. My hookah system has already paid for itself many times over. Not so sure about the dry suit. That will be a little longer.

 

[Ralph Johnstone]

If (after 7 years) all you are getting is light slime on the hull, why bother to repaint at all?

Because I live in fear of the year that I see the first traces of the dreaded black warning coat. Epoxy barrier coat underneath. Once that happens, it's time to hope the yard can squeeze me into a slot where I can bottom paint. Really busy yard and one year I'm going to lose out.

 

[Ralph Johnstone]

After reading this thread and a previous one...

Everybody is probably correct

True. But aren't some more correct than others ? Just asking.

The Rate of Transfer is dependent on...
1) Temperature of the water
2) Exposed painted surface area of the hull.
3) Velocity of water passing the hull.
4) Concentration of Cu ion in the paint, but absent from the Waters.

Very true. I'm sure there's an ASTM standard for this analysis, but as you point out "what happens when the environment changes ?"

Temperature - maybe one or more products have a negative Solubility Product Constant for the Cu ion. Organic chem. was not was not my fave by a long shot.

Velocity - this is so wide open, where does one start ?

Testing and reporting the data for the plethora of boats in endlessly different environments experiencing different usage, seems near impossible. All you can do is revert back to the standard acid test ............. who's had good luck with what in your area.

One thing I neglected to mention is that I do the bottom paint first an then spend 3-4 days lightly compounding the hull above the WL. Maybe the drying time aids in some way rather that the usual splash it wet you often see. But then again I'm an agnostic so that offsets any benefit from drying.