What conditions can a water ballast boat sail in?
- Thread starter Bdeller
- Start date
in am mist
Just want to keep the mass down on slippery ramps and the less I tow, the less I have to stop. We will be potentially hauling this up and down the west coast. From Monterey Bay to Port Hardy BC.
Besides, it seems that is the range of the boats that fit my criteria.
Brian
We used to have a hunter 23.5 and have sailed it reefed with winds in the low 20s gusting higher. It was a handful and exciting but never any real worries. This was on one of NY's Finger lakes.
More important is the sea state. No way would I try the same thing on Lake Erie, where we are now on a much larger boat. At 20 knots steady the waves start to get huge and short. I think you'd probably be fine on the larger 26 / 260 but you would be reefed at 15. The water balasted hunters are tender at first but settle down once heeled close to 15 degrees. Too much sail up and they will lay down first then round up in a gust. Won't capsize, though.
More important is the sea state. No way would I try the same thing on Lake Erie, where we are now on a much larger boat. At 20 knots steady the waves start to get huge and short. I think you'd probably be fine on the larger 26 / 260 but you would be reefed at 15. The water balasted hunters are tender at first but settle down once heeled close to 15 degrees. Too much sail up and they will lay down first then round up in a gust. Won't capsize, though.
We have owned our Hunter 23.5 since the year they were introduced, in 1993. We’ve sailed extensively on Lake Erie, having crossed from Sandusky Bay Ohio to Leamington Ontario on several occasions, and cruised the Lake Erie islands for as long as a week. We’ve trailered to Presque Isle Bay in Erie Pennsylvania and spent as long as a week there, both in the bay and out on the lake. We’ve sailed through unpredicted storms with gusts as high a 45+ knots. With good planning, an eye on the weather and shortening sail early, and sound weather tactics, a good skipper can handle more weather than many give the boat credit for.
Having introduced the Catalina 250 and all the Hunter water ballast boats, I told all my customers not to heel over 12-14 degrees using sail control. Learn the boat and taking it easy till your skills improve is suggested
Thank you for your expert reply CDC. You have peaked my curiosity, what happens at 15degrees of heal? Does a portal to an alternate sailing universe open? Do tell.
@Crazy Dave Condon and @Kermit appear in the cockpit, armed with not enough beer, and looking for snacks
Easier to handle thru use of sail control and secondly, you do not scaredy-cat those who want an enjoyable ride like your better half.
@Meriachee now have the Mitzukazie(dcc), Ice 4 (dcc/sound) land CN with A-B-A (dcc/ sound. Waiting on the George Washington due in soon and the Canadian Pacific.
@Meriachee now have the Mitzukazie(dcc), Ice 4 (dcc/sound) land CN with A-B-A (dcc/ sound. Waiting on the George Washington due in soon and the Canadian Pacific.
I have owned an H23 and an H260. The 23 goes through chop better than the 260 but they both take it well. The 23 took me most of the day to set up. So clearly it’s not a good choice for you. I’ve heard several people say how quickly they can trailer their 260 and have it launched, ready to sail in 45 minutes. It took me 3 hours on a good day with good help.
As far as how much wind it can handle, the correct answer is as much as the skipper can handle. Get to know your boat and how to reef quickly and easily. But there’s more to knowing your boat than just how to reef. You need to know first-hand what happens in any given situation. A friend drove mine in a pretty heavy wind and heeled the boat up far more than I was comfortable with. He kept telling me to tighten the main and to pull traveler higher. His goal was to scare the tadpoles out of me to prove that it would NOT capsize. I’m telling you, there’s no wind short of a small tornado that will capsize it. But that doesn’t mean I would do that again. I found the experience to be a bit too, shall we say, “exhilarating” for my taste. But I found out what the boat could handle. (I was a very conservative sailor. I guess I needed bigger toads.)
It’s also possible to balance the sails so you can go straight with no steering from you. I remember one day I had them balanced perfectly for over 20 minutes. I actually fell asleep. I woke up just before bumping into the far shoreline.
I trailered mine with a 2008 Expedition with air suspension and tow package. The dry weight is 5,000 lbs but it weighs 7,000 with a full ballast tank. As much as Dave Condon warned me not to, I pulled the boat out with the ballast tank full and dumped the water immediately on the ramp. A good ramp is key. I also found using a hitch that drops very low helps with the loading process. Then change to an appropriate hitch once you’re on level ground.
All of this may sound like I’m sort of an expert. Nothing could be less true. My only great achievements in sailing were that I never lost any crew and I was always able to return to where I started from. What I just wrote is just I found to be true for me.
We sold our H260 a year ago. I spent more time cleaning it and worrying about it than sailing. I miss sailing but not boat ownership. Your description of yourself sounds like you’ll make a fine sailor.
Good luck and above all have fun!
As far as how much wind it can handle, the correct answer is as much as the skipper can handle. Get to know your boat and how to reef quickly and easily. But there’s more to knowing your boat than just how to reef. You need to know first-hand what happens in any given situation. A friend drove mine in a pretty heavy wind and heeled the boat up far more than I was comfortable with. He kept telling me to tighten the main and to pull traveler higher. His goal was to scare the tadpoles out of me to prove that it would NOT capsize. I’m telling you, there’s no wind short of a small tornado that will capsize it. But that doesn’t mean I would do that again. I found the experience to be a bit too, shall we say, “exhilarating” for my taste. But I found out what the boat could handle. (I was a very conservative sailor. I guess I needed bigger toads.)
It’s also possible to balance the sails so you can go straight with no steering from you. I remember one day I had them balanced perfectly for over 20 minutes. I actually fell asleep. I woke up just before bumping into the far shoreline.
I trailered mine with a 2008 Expedition with air suspension and tow package. The dry weight is 5,000 lbs but it weighs 7,000 with a full ballast tank. As much as Dave Condon warned me not to, I pulled the boat out with the ballast tank full and dumped the water immediately on the ramp. A good ramp is key. I also found using a hitch that drops very low helps with the loading process. Then change to an appropriate hitch once you’re on level ground.
All of this may sound like I’m sort of an expert. Nothing could be less true. My only great achievements in sailing were that I never lost any crew and I was always able to return to where I started from. What I just wrote is just I found to be true for me.
We sold our H260 a year ago. I spent more time cleaning it and worrying about it than sailing. I miss sailing but not boat ownership. Your description of yourself sounds like you’ll make a fine sailor.
Good luck and above all have fun!
Probably more important than where the ballast is, is the overall performance of the boat. If the boat responds and sails well, that can make up for some tenderness. If the boat is responsive, it translates wind into speed, rather than heal. My RL 24 was a very light boat that was considered tender by some, however I had sailed in 25 knot winds and had a blast. I also got caught in 40 to 50 knot winds, and could not sail in it. We had to switch to motoring. The motor is in a motor well, so the prop stays in the water, so even in very rough water, you are fine. The boat only has 350 lbs in the swing keel. That is all the ballast it has, but yet does handle fairly high winds and rough water. Most of that is just that the boat responds well.
It is also worth noting that some permently ballasted boats do not have all of their ballast in the keel. Many times they will have half the ballast in the keel, and the other half in the bottom of the boat. In those cases, the advantage over water ballast will be much smaller.
It is also worth noting that some permently ballasted boats do not have all of their ballast in the keel. Many times they will have half the ballast in the keel, and the other half in the bottom of the boat. In those cases, the advantage over water ballast will be much smaller.
As for dropping ballast contrary to Kermit, once on the trailer with valves open allow water to drain before pulling off the ramp
That’s exactly why I chose to not do as I was told. But... I trust Dave and should have done as I was told. I noticed some odd tread wear on one side of the trailer. My tire guy told me the axle was slightly bent. Hmmmm. Maybe I should have heeded his advice.
I doubt that any reputable manufacturer of a water-ballasted sailboat would spec out a trailer that couldn't handle the weight of the ballasted boat on the ramp.
The Hunter-branded trailer for my 1998 H26 is rated by the factory at 6000# GVWR, on two 3000# axles. To me, this should be more than enough to pull the ballasted boat up onto the ramp to drain without bending an axle. In my case, the axles have been replaced with 3500# axles, so even better.
Now, I know that actual boat weights are typically higher than the manufacturer claims, but you should be able to exceed the GVWR of the trailer and/or axles by a little bit on a ramp without bending them. It's not like a 3000# axle is going to bend as soon as you put 3001# on it.
If someone things their ballasted boat bent a trailer axle on the ramp, they should check the trailer and axle specs and the actual boat weight ballasted to see just how far over they were.
Not saying you should exceed the ratings on the highway, I just doubt that it was the ballasted boat on the ramp that bent an axle. Unless the trailer was significantly under-spec'd.
I did bend the rear axle of my front-drive Audi 100LS nicely, in my younger days, when I filled the trunk up with MG parts, including engine blocks, transmissions, etc., and moved to Colorado. It had a nice squatty look to it after that. And definitely wore the insides of the rear tires in a hurry.
The Hunter-branded trailer for my 1998 H26 is rated by the factory at 6000# GVWR, on two 3000# axles. To me, this should be more than enough to pull the ballasted boat up onto the ramp to drain without bending an axle. In my case, the axles have been replaced with 3500# axles, so even better.
Now, I know that actual boat weights are typically higher than the manufacturer claims, but you should be able to exceed the GVWR of the trailer and/or axles by a little bit on a ramp without bending them. It's not like a 3000# axle is going to bend as soon as you put 3001# on it.
If someone things their ballasted boat bent a trailer axle on the ramp, they should check the trailer and axle specs and the actual boat weight ballasted to see just how far over they were.
Not saying you should exceed the ratings on the highway, I just doubt that it was the ballasted boat on the ramp that bent an axle. Unless the trailer was significantly under-spec'd.
I did bend the rear axle of my front-drive Audi 100LS nicely, in my younger days, when I filled the trunk up with MG parts, including engine blocks, transmissions, etc., and moved to Colorado. It had a nice squatty look to it after that. And definitely wore the insides of the rear tires in a hurry.
Exactly
I've sailed mine in 20 knot winds without any thought at all. In the bay here when we get winds out of the east the fetch on our side of the bay gets uncomfortable and is more of an issue than the winds. The Hunter water ballast seem tippy as they are quick to heel over to six or eight degrees but are quite comfortable there till you get up to about fifteen where the rudder comes out of the water and the boat rounds up.
4K for an F150 is absolutely reasonable for a trip of any distance. I've had 6K behind mine but would not want to do it routinely nor for any significant distance.