What conditions can a water ballast boat sail in?

Benny17441 · Aug 9, 2020

Sailboats are slow and weather forecasts are not very accurate. Distance to the closests safe port in the face of possible rapid changes in weather will define safe limits. It is a proven concept that more than the boat, it is the ability of the Captain, that determines the weather limits. Could not find a reliable classification source for any of these boats. The classifications go from A to D and establish some limits of wind force and wave heights. For example a Class C boat is rated for inshore coastal sailing up to Force 6 winds and wave height of up to 2 meters. Become familiar with the boat and practice sailing in the Bay under increasing weather conditions until you find your limit of comfort for the boat before venturing outside. Also study the weather and its propensity for changes in the areas you want to sail. Oh by the way, Water Ballast is not a limiting factor, it is in use in many boats large and small. It is in the overall boat design and size that you will find limiting factors.

rgranger · Aug 10, 2020

I have the Hunter 26. And I am now living someplace where I can count on a decent breeze almost any day. I am considering a second set of reef points in my sail but... to answer your question more directly. The water ballast boats are very tender until they heel about 5 or 10 degrees, then they stiffen up. So.. regarding ability.

1) If you are a person prone to sea sickness, a water ballast boat is probably not the best choice. They have a "less smooth" ride in a rough sea way.
2) If you take the time and care to set up your boat for single handed reefing and get your reefing protocols smooth, there is no reason you can't sail a water ballast boat like any other coastal cruiser.

rgranger · Aug 10, 2020

Bdeller said:
thanks for the reply, rgranger.
I appreciate your personal account and experience. I have heard about the rolling nature of the WB boats. I figure most of the small less than 25 ft trailer sailboats, at least that is what I have read.

I used to own a Balboa 26. They have a 1200# chunk of lead at the bottom of a cast iron swing keel. They are stiff as hell.... but... not the sort of boat I would want to set up and take down more than once or twice a season. They are big and beefy and you need the tow vehicle for it as well. But boy did she punch through chop like a hot knife through butter...... :beer:

Serenity on Hudson · Aug 10, 2020

Haven't sailed my H 23.5 for the last few years but I found the boat quite uncontrollable when the wind got above 12 mph. It was better reefed but still had a tendency to head up violently in significant gusts. Since I keep my boat at a marina, the ease of launch was not that important. Only once trailered it 50 miles to Raritan Bay. Forgot to open the ballast and sailed for 1/2 hour wondering why this tender boat was sooooo tender. Light winds so no problems. Have a Capri 22 now and love the stability of 700 pounds of lead under me. Much more stable unless you tack too quickly and stall the keel. Interesting sailing sideways.

srimes · Aug 10, 2020

The 12' Pelican was designed for that bay. No ballast. Easy to tow

12' San Francisco Bay Pelican Plans PDF

www.duckworks.com

The people who say a Hunter 240/260 or Catalina 250 can't handle over 15kts probably say you need a 4x4 to drive on a dirt road.

Jim26m · Aug 10, 2020

What sailing experience do you have?

As @rgranger says, you get heel quickly with water ballast, but it does stiffen up. If you are used to heel, or at least not afraid of going over (it won't), a water ballasted boat would be fine. It is not a keel boat, and generally the ride is a bit rougher when things get interesting. But, 12-15 is a fine sailing day as far as I'm concerned. When it gets to 20, gusting higher, then it's time to find the trailer, unless you want a white knuckle experience. You can do it fine heavily reefed, but I can't say I enjoy it that much. But, I have a roller main and roller Genoa, so basically I can Reef down to a handkerchief if necessary.

Also, do you anticipate trailering every time, or will you get a slip and only trailer on occasion? The sailing experience can't start until the boat is rigged and on the water. So, there are trade offs to consider if you trailer every time (which I do). I can be rigged and on the water in 15-30 minutes (variation due to number of competent helpers - 2 or 0). My boat launches and retrieves as easily as a bass boat if the ramp is decent. While they aren't everyone's cup of tea, water ballasted boats do some things rather well.

srimes · Aug 10, 2020

Bdeller said:
Hello Jim26m,

I am a novice sailor with no immediate plans for a boat purchase. Doing my research and all of the comments have been insightful. I am not interested in a slip as it limits my sailing options. My wife and I kayak up on the Gulf Islands and Desolation Sound in BC. wrestling with a 20 foot kayak may be a hobby we will want to stop as we get older. Sailing might be a nice alternative, as we love being on the water. Especially, up north. So set up and teardown are a fact.
I do want to be clear, I have no illusion that I will buy a boat and jet out the Golden Gate. I figure it will take much sheltered sailing on inlets and Lakes to get comfortable. My question seems to be getting answered about water ballast boats. Like all trailer sailboat's they are limited in one fashion or the other.
Is the tippy nature due to ballast CG or the flat nature of the hull design? I sailed on an Olsen 40 and it seemed to always pitch over . I was told it had a floater hull.

anyway thanks for your time.

That's good to hear! Coming from kayaks you're in a better spot than most who want to start sailing. A water ballasted sailboat will feel as stable as a barge compared to a kayak! And you have experience with packing light. And weather windows!

All monohull sailboats tip when sailing, unless you're going dead down wind or have enough movable ballast (which includes people) to balance it out. That's just the physics of being propelled by the wind.

It's mostly the ballast CG that makes water ballast boats more tippy. Often the ballast ratio is lower than keel boats of the same length, and overall displacement is less as well.

People speak of boat length but the best way to compare boat "size" is displacement. A 20' kayak with a max displacement of 700 lb is a lot smaller than a 15' sailboat with a max displacement of 1200 lb.

My Mac26D is longer than a Catalina 25, but closer in displacement to the Catalina 22. A Catalina 27 is 1 foot longer but 2.4 times as heavy. A totally different class of boat and way more stable.

That said, the Mac is much easier to trailer and the interior space is very big for it's weight. All boats are compromise.

srimes · Aug 10, 2020

Just guesstimated on the kayak, I'm sure the manufacturer has a published capacity. Add that to boat weight and that's max displacement. A lot of basic stats including published displacement can be found on https://sailboatdata.com/ . I've seen errors but it's really convenient.

Jim26m · Aug 11, 2020

Bdeller said:
Hello Jim26m,

I am a novice sailor with no immediate plans for a boat purchase. Doing my research and all of the comments have been insightful. I am not interested in a slip as it limits my sailing options. My wife and I kayak up on the Gulf Islands and Desolation Sound in BC. wrestling with a 20 foot kayak may be a hobby we will want to stop as we get older. Sailing might be a nice alternative, as we love being on the water. Especially, up north. So set up and teardown are a fact.
I do want to be clear, I have no illusion that I will buy a boat and jet out the Golden Gate. I figure it will take much sheltered sailing on inlets and Lakes to get comfortable. My question seems to be getting answered about water ballast boats. Like all trailer sailboat's they are limited in one fashion or the other.
Is the tippy nature due to ballast CG or the flat nature of the hull design? I sailed on an Olsen 40 and it seemed to always pitch over . I was told it had a floater hull.

anyway thanks for your time.

The ballast location allows the boat to be "tippy" for the first several degrees. But, as you noticed on the Olsen 40 (and per @srimes post) monohulls heel. Hull design certainly plays a part in it, but the biggest part IMO is the number of hulls you have. If you want flat with little heel, you will need a multi hull.

You seem to have realistic expectations.

What type of tow vehicle do you have, or do you plan to buy a tow beast? The type of boat you can tow safely is dependent on the tow vehicle. Water ballasted, or multi hull boats can typically be towed with lesser vehicles than heavily ballasted boats. So, as you shop, keep in mind that your boat purchase can spawn a vehicle purchase.

rgranger · Aug 11, 2020

My H26 would round up in an uncontrollable way when I first got her. But I then got a new mainsail and now she sails very well. The rig on the WB hunters has an oversized headsail and a smaller than normal foresail. The result is that it is easier to tack the jib and the boat drives well in light air... the "down side" is that if you main is old and tired, you will heel too much and round up easily in a gust.

But if you have a WB Hunter and feel you can't sail in wind above 12... consider getting a new mainsail.