Fishing in Maine.

[shemandr]

Not to mention how the retirees (I'm one of them) and vacationers run up housing prices so the former locals can no longer afford to live where they grew up. This has been going on for at least a generation all over New England and likely other shore communities on the East Coast and elsewhere. It is happening here in Florida. Housing prices go up, job opportunities shrink, in part because the economically advantaged don't want their views spoiled by people who work. The towns become a caricature of themselves. 10,000 sq/ft "Houses" sit idle most of the time.

 

[Will Gilmore]

It is a fact of social dynamics, ecology, as well as Mathematics ("Gödel's incompleteness theorems are two theorems of mathematical logic that demonstrate the inherent limitations of every formal axiomatic system capable of modelling basic arithmetic.") that an attempt to become part of any system will cause that system to change such that it will no longer be the same system. Any attempts to adapt to the newly emerged system will again change the system. The growth of an industry, like fishing, creates an elusive utopia that seems to endanger it as it moves the abundance of its fisheries further and further away from its ideal.
Success sows the seeds of its demise. At the same time, success creates a deeper reliance upon its survival.

-Will ("pulling out the philosophy", Dragonfly)

 

[Rick486]

It is a fact of social dynamics, ecology, as well as Mathematics ("Gödel's incompleteness theorems are two theorems of mathematical logic that demonstrate the inherent limitations of every formal axiomatic system capable of modelling basic arithmetic.") that an attempt to become part of any system will cause that system to change such that it will no longer be the same system. Any attempts to adapt to the newly emerged system will again change the system. The growth of an industry, like fishing, creates an elusive utopia that seems to endanger it as it moves the abundance of its fisheries further and further away from its ideal.
Success sows the seeds of its demise. At the same time, success creates a deeper reliance upon its survival.

-Will ("pulling out the philosophy", Dragonfly)

Uh...the point is?

 

[JimInPB]

Not to mention how the retirees (I'm one of them) and vacationers run up housing prices so the former locals can no longer afford to live where they grew up. ...

I'm an example of that. I can't afford to live in the area in the North East where I grew up. A lot of people have a crazy amount of money these days, & it is warping society.

 

[Will Gilmore]

Uh...the point is?

"Nobody goes there anymore. There are too many people."

Things change.

-Will (Dragonfly)

 

[TomY]

I like this. Maine Coast Sea Vegetables, Sustainably Harvested and Certified Organic
It’s sustainable. Fish farming isn’t.

All it takes is a small cultural change, and we could feed the world and make it “greener”. If Everyone Ate Beans Instead of Beef

I actually stumbled on a few small harvesters of sea weed last season. Kelp, Rockweed, it's all finding a market.

Maine's lobster fishery will decline as the northward migration continues, it's not if but when. There are a growing number of entrepreneurs that are moving into these new markets. Shellfish farming seems to be lucrative enough to attract the farmers.

On the salmon farming, deserved or not, there is a stigma for farm raised fish. I know more than a few people that won't touch it. On the other hand, the median household income in Maine is something just over 50k per year. The median house is valued at something around 300K. That takes a household income of something like 100K. Any business that can supply good jobs to our area will get a lot of hopeful support. Can Nordic figure it out? We'll see.

 

[JimInPB]

...Maine's lobster fishery will decline as the northward migration continues, it's not if but when....

I've seen main lobsters caught as far south as the Carolinas. How soon do you think that lobsters are going to all move north of Main?

 

[TomY]

I've seen main lobsters caught as far south as the Carolinas. How soon do you think that lobsters are going to all move north of Main?

You can't be serious. One lobster?

Maine's lobster industry is a billion dollar business. How soon will they move North of Main(e)?

The North American Lobster has been moving Northward at a rate of 4 or 5 miles a year over the last 50 years.

With the Gulf of Maine warming faster than most of the worlds oceans, the North American lobsters preferred habitat (and the fishery) will be in Canada by mid century.

 

[Bob J.]

On the salmon farming, deserved or not, there is a stigma for farm raised fish. I know more than a few people that won't touch it. On the other hand, the median household income in Maine is something just over 50k per year. The median house is valued at something around 300K. That takes a household income of something like 100K. Any business that can supply good jobs to our area will get a lot of hopeful support. Can Nordic figure it out? We'll see.

Funny, I've run into 6 people this year from Maine that moved to western NH because of low paying jobs. You can't make a living on $10-$12 bucks an hour. I saw recently the average income in Maine is somewhere around 36K. Pretty tough to survive with the tax base let alone have disposal income to help fuel the local economy.

I'm only against it for environmental reasons. If approval is granted to Nordic my hope would be they'd at least provide payscales that are in line with what folks need in order to make a decent living up that way.

 

[Captain Larry-DH]

I just read an interesting article about Maine lobster industry/conservation and it made me think of this thread. The Enigma Behind America’s Freak, 20-Year Lobster Boom - Quartz - Pocket

 

[TomY]

I just read an interesting article about Maine lobster industry/conservation and it made me think of this thread. The Enigma Behind America’s Freak, 20-Year Lobster Boom - Quartz - Pocket

Well done in depth article, thanks. My hope is that we'll see a slow decline that will allow time for the industry - culture really here on the coast of Maine - to adjust and make changes. It's not a matter of if but when.

A collapse would be devastating for coastal Maine and I don't mean the consumers (us).

 

[Will Gilmore]

I was on Fisherman's Warf, in San Francisco, a few years ago and they were selling "Maine" lobster trail. They kept the lobster in a tank and on ice. Both specimen were spiny lobster. Not a Maine lobster in sight. I think spinney lobster in Florida are delicious.

Maine needs to learn to capitalize on their brand better. It's less important where the lobster comes from than who makes money on selling the Maine brand.

If the lobster industry doesn't sustain itself, there is still a world of opportunities for a coastal state in the North Atlantic. Imagination and ingenuity combined with the beauty and heritage of Maine suggests a number of tourist-based alternatives to me. Often it's the violent resistance to change that proves to be the most devastating blow to an economy.

Just because people have made a living at something for generations, doesn't mean they can't easily move on when the time comes. People are smart and resilient, if they don't get too caught up in preserving a dying way life. The rest of the world will move on and care only in retrospect about those who fail to keep up. The hard part is knowing when the time to cut and run is.

-Will (Dragonfly)

 

[All U Get]

NH found a way to squash chic peas into a form that looks like a lobster. They have been able to market them in Vt. That kinda makes up for the Massachusetts stores selling pollock in lobster rolls.

 

[AlastairLC]

With the Gulf of Maine warming faster than most of the worlds oceans, the North American lobsters preferred habitat (and the fishery) will be in Canada by mid century.

Despite the alarmist reports on ocean temperatures using percentages, which can be very misleading, “Data from the US National Oceanic and Atmospheric Administration (NOAA) shows that the average global sea surface temperature – the temperature of the upper few metres of the ocean – has increased by approximately 0.13°C per decade over the past 100 years.”
I cant see how that’s going to convince all those lobsters to hightail it to Canada.

 

[Hondo76251]

I wouldn't get irritated by climate change talk if it wasn't so darn political...

I dont want to turn my country over to the socialists... that doesn't make me a "climate change denier"

Far as I see it, using data from the last 100 years is like using the trend from the last 20 min to predict next weeks weather...

Fact is, looking at the weather trends from the last 10,000 years is more useful. It should also terrify you. We are still coming out of an ice age but mankind is clearly having some affect. How much? That is up for debate but it's nothing compared to what mother nature has dished out in the past...

But maybe I'm missing the big picture? Maybe if we go full socialist now... by the time the climate "disaster" occurs our people will be so used to starving by then, they'll hardly notice!

Hmmm... clever... very clever comrade

 

[Will Gilmore]

I wouldn't get irritated by climate change talk if it wasn't so darn political...

Nice little apophasis there, Hondo .

Climate change IS a political topic because we talk as if something can be done about it and that our fellow Earthlings should get onboard and help.

-Will (Dragonfly)

 

[Captain Larry-DH]

@Hondo76251 climate change is a scientific fact. Only people who ignore the facts are being political.

 

[Hondo76251]

@Hondo76251 climate change is a scientific fact. Only people who ignore the facts are being political.

I guess I just dont know that many people that ignore facts... it's in determining what they mean and what to do about them that things seem to go off the rails... the weather can make or break my livelihood in any given month. I've got as much to loose as anyone but I'm much more worried about the current batch of idiots at the helm (both sides, equally) than I am any climate disaster...

 

[jssailem]

climate change is a scientific fact

This is an “Inconvenient” statement. The climate has been changing for the past millions of years. It will be changing for millions of more years. Will it be “Hotter” or Colder. This is what is undecided. It is not a clear issue for scientists. It is not a clear definitive issue for politicians. Power brokers use the statement to enhance the power they find dear.

Who doesn’t fear the possibility they could loose everything. And who would not support an idea if they think that it will help them gain everything.

Why do we accept the word of individuals who want the public to give up their oil powered vehicle, while they fly in private jets criss crossing the country powered by oil and generating more carbon into the air they say is so dear.

 

[TomY]

I don't follow the politics of climate change, I'm interested in the science and follow that closely, especially where it concerns the ocean I live next to (and sail on).

For this thread, the (science) data supports the known (look up lobster landing history in Long Island Sound), migration of the American Lobster over the past 50 years.

With the Gulf of Maine warming at a faster rate than most (99%) of the worlds oceans, concerns about this industry are mostly local. We'll feel the greatest effect.

I look at this inevitable climate change in how the culture of my coast will also change and adapt. I'm living in it right now.