How are Sabres higher quality?

[jssailem]

Thanks @Scandium . I like to share thoughts that are relevant and as free from confusion as is possible. Your clarification, helps me as I can understand them.

I have a 1974 built boat. I have made refit changes to bring it up to a condition that I feel would allow me to sail out of contact with the coast in moderate weather conditions off the Pacific Coast. In other words the boat is strong enough for such a cruise of 2-5 days during a good weather condition. I would not want to take it out in boarding seas with out further modifications. These are the types of decisions made by a skipper.

Based on the history and boat construction information I have been able to review, I support my comment on the Sabre boat. Yes a boat in good repair and outfitted for such a cruise, the Sabre could be termed a strong boat for "Light Offshore" use.

One of the differences among boats i.e. Westsail and Sabre the shape and design of the two boats would impact the feel of the boat "sea kindly nature" in various sea states. That would be a subjective feel. That would be something that you and I might see differently. I might be more susceptible to boat motion then you or your crew.

Clearly an advantage of the Sabre is the speed of the boat in comparison to a Westsail. Speed helps you get out of trouble where a slower boat may find itself engulfed.

 

[FastOlson]

Lots of helpful information so far, and a good 'mantra' might be: 'Specs are NOT related to Scantlings".
A lot more ($$$) labor and materials go into the high-end boats, and an uninformed buyer will not see that work by a casual walk thru.
Uninformed buyers do not want to pay for what they cannot see.
I know of surveyors than can expound on this subject, but will be cautious so as not to hurt the feelings of customers.

I could give you a "short list" of higher end boat names, but it would inevitably leave out someone's favorite.
Suffice to say, that it is sort of like houses, where the construction detailing that you can not view (footings, foundations, and framing...) is lots more important 20 and 30 years later than the photogenic 'gingerbread' that sells those cheapie "street of dreams" McMansions.
(sigh)
Example: we spent a year (!) of shopping and crawling around on a dismaying parade of 'weak built' boats before finding our Ericson-constructed Olson. Worth it, totally.

 

[Jackdaw]

Here is an example of crossing the "Gulf Stream" out of Miami by a "YouTube"...

And information that may help in planning.
https://gcaptain.com/high-wind-wave-events-crossing-gulf-stream-explained/

That boat and crew is a disaster on so many levels.

Maybe stop buying GoPros and save up for an autopilot for starters.

 

[Jackdaw]

My current boat is a XXXXXXXXX, which from what I can tell is a bit "above average" built.

EVERYBODY thinks this about their own boat! ;^)

 

[Meriachee]

Maybe stop buying GoPros and save up for an autopilot for starters.

Ha ha ha! An apropos statement, but somewhat diminished in a topic that is largely theoretical in nature. GoPro's are great for spot service - that is, capturing the actions of the crew and the rig for operational or technical review, but they're pretty lousy at being cameras.

 

[Kings Gambit]

Lots of helpful information so far, and a good 'mantra' might be: 'Specs are NOT related to Scantlings".
A lot more ($$$) labor and materials go into the high-end boats, and an uninformed buyer will not see that work by a casual walk thru.
Uninformed buyers do not want to pay for what they cannot see.
I know of surveyors than can expound on this subject, but will be cautious so as not to hurt the feelings of customers.

I could give you a "short list" of higher end boat names, but it would inevitably leave out someone's favorite.
Suffice to say, that it is sort of like houses, where the construction detailing that you can not view (footings, foundations, and framing...) is lots more important 20 and 30 years later than the photogenic 'gingerbread' that sells those cheapie "street of dreams" McMansions.
(sigh)
Example: we spent a year (!) of shopping and crawling around on a dismaying parade of 'weak built' boats before finding our Ericson-constructed Olson. Worth it, totally.

If you’re mostly tied to dock anyway or sailing very local venues not far, that extra quality of construction doesn’t mean much. But then again, I’ve known folks who have bought Island Packets just to go 23 n.mi. to Catalina Island from Long Beach a few times a year during summer. Somehow, I question whether our OP will actually be “light racing” (if there is such a thing) to Bermuda. All fantasy shopping.

 

[Scandium]

If you’re mostly tied to dock anyway that extra quality of construction doesn’t mean much. But then again, I’ve known folks who have bought Island Packets just to go 23 n.mi. to Catalina Island from Long Beach a few times a year during summer.

Certainly. As an engineer I'm all about efficiency. No point buying an ocean crosser if you never go more than 8 nm from land. If I decide when looking for a boat I'll never leave the Chessie then sure I'll buy a catalina or whatever. But if think I might want to venture bit offshore (few days) I'll look for something sturdier. Similarly if I then want to cross to Europe I'll need something different again.

 

[jssailem]

I would not count the Catalina boats out for the activities you have described.

It is always a combination of emotion (I like this boat) and money (this boat is ok.. and I can afford it). But it is a certainty that if you do not feel "safe" (to use a term) in the boat on big water you will not be safe. There are folk who have successfully made ocean passages in 15-20 foot boats. Boats that many would say "that boat is not a blue water boat".

Even the Chessie can become nightmare to a boater.

 

[Kings Gambit]

But if think I might want to venture bit offshore (few days) I'll look for something sturdier. Similarly if I then want to cross to Europe I'll need something different again.

You have to think in terms accessibility of ports when unexpected bad weather is approaching when you are “offshore.” If you’re less than 100 n.mi. from port (safe harbor), you’re not really “offshore.” In any event, accomplished sailors pay attention to weather windows, equip the boat properly, and develop skills compatible with their goals. The overall quality of construction of the yacht itself and its condition is but one of several variables in the equation.

 

[JRT]

@JK_Boston_Catalina310 has been sailing / living on his Cataline C310 since leaving Boston in 2015 and they are in the Caribbean and heading further south. The C310 was not a boat for this and it has survived several hurricanes. I believe there success is because he and his wife built the skills and abilities and used the boat they had.

 

[Scandium]

You have to think in terms accessibility of ports when unexpected bad weather is approaching when you are “offshore.” If you’re less than 100 n.mi. from port (safe harbor), you’re not really “offshore.” In any event, accomplished sailors pay attention to weather windows, equip the boat properly, and develop skills compatible with their goals. The overall quality of construction of the yacht itself and its condition is but one of several variables in the equation.

Of course. Sailing to Newport can always duck in somewhere. Bermuda is 600 nm, so up to 300 nm to nearest "emergency landing", potentially across the golf stream if you have to turn back to the coast.

 

[Jackdaw]

Even the Chessie can become nightmare to a boater.

The difference is, of course, that in a bay you can read the the day's forecast while sitting on the dock and can choose to go or not go out. Most boats will be fine operating under these parameters. Same for coastal cruising or island hopping. Middle of a crossing, that option goes away. You have to deal with what comes. Boat need to be much better found to deal with that.

 

[Kings Gambit]

My point, Bermuda is not offshore “a bit.” I guess it was lost in the translation.

 

[TomY]

any opinions on sabres for "light offshore" sailing? Like I said for example Chesapeake to RI, Maine, bermuda or carribean? Are they strong enough? Is storage too limited below a certain lenght, say 38 ft?

Give yourself a break. Consider yourself a 'coastal sailor'. That's what I do. My limit would be 2 nights at sea, but in practice we've stayed below that ceiling with an overnight and 48 or so hours at sea. That covers what You're envisioning. Bermuda is out for me.

This allows me to set my own rules and safety equipment on the boat. A coastal boat can be very basic. You're protected from extreme weather (if you do your homework) by accurate weather reports on the east coast.

A well found Sabre, any of them, is more than up to that.

 

[Kings Gambit]

Weather traveling toward you, at say 12 kt, from 300 n.mi. will overtake you b/f you can reach safe harbor if you are 300 n.mi. distant. If you’re only 100 n.mi. distant, you can arrive to port several hours ahead of the weather, etc., if you wished to.

 

[jssailem]

There are folk who have successfully made ocean passages in 15-20 foot boats. Boats that many would say "that boat is not a blue water boat".

Even the Chessie can become nightmare to a boater.

I think in context my intent to communicate was; while out in the middle of the Chesapeake you can become embroiled in a sudden storm that can become a life saving decision making opportunity. The Catalina line of boats can survive most such events if the skipper and crew are prepared. Being 300 miles from shore (between Bermuda and the US Coast) this also can occur. In both circumstances the availability of weather planning is available to the skipper. The decision of 'Go-NoGo' are the same and not boat dependent. Once upon the water the the skipper is still faced with such decisions as the weather forecast evolves.

 

[kloudie1]

I have crossed the Gulf of Mexico twice in a Sabre 38 MKII with a crew of 5 .. three or four nights nonstop.. no problems with storage or with the boat.. We chose the window carefully and had days of great sailing.. Did the same thing in a Tartan 37.. I didn't see anything that would have been a problem in my H-34..

 

[Scandium]

My point, Bermuda is not offshore “a bit.” I guess it was lost in the translation.

It's less offshore than sailing to Ireland..

 

[jssailem]

It's less offshore than sailing to Ireland..

Yes it is. But going to Ireland you can sail in the ice berg track and jump from Labrador, Greenland, Iceland, the Faroe Islands, Scotland to Ireland along the way... Your sails would each be about 250 to 300 mile legs... Just not like going to Bermuda.

 

[FastOlson]

To many or most of the posters, "quality" is kind of subjective. And that's normal.
To clarify on my view, I have owned my boat since 1994, and done a lot of upgrades and additions. Every time I get into the "hidden" parts of it I am presented with construction methods that are mean't for the long haul. Like removing parts of the headliner or bulkhead teak trims and verifying that all (!) of the interior bulkheads and ancillary frp moldings are tabbed in. Nothing loose and nothing has ever come loose. The whole structure is one engineered piece. Our hull/deck joint is an inside overlap, thru-bolted thru an aluminum toe rail. Without fail, every deck fitting I have occasion to remove, that was installed by Ericson reveals a dry core. i.e. well bedded with the right material.
Other boats are built just as well, but not a lower price point.
We specifically avoided boats with a "shoe box" hull/deck joint. Prone to weakness and leaks.
Of course my opinions and experiences are going to different than yours.... but having been offshore in a gale on on memorable delivery of a Cascade 36 down to SF, I will opt for basic strength and speed over lesser construction and low price.
And for the other 99% of sailing days, there are a number of folks posting on this thread that could give me sailing lessons!