Super Secret Settled Science of Sailing?

Oct 19, 2017
7,795
O'Day 19 Littleton, NH
Randomness is certainly a more promising theory than an omniscient being.
Indeed! However, neither of us was actually talking about an omniscient being as a part of our discussion. I think, however, he might have thought I was. I don't understand why one is exclusive of the other. Understanding a scientific explanation behind a particular phenomenon doesn't say one way or another about the existence of a "Creator".
Discussing the origins and nature of an apparent spontaneous creation of matter from nothing certainly has its implications around that, especially since the whole concept seems paradoxical to what we believe about science. That may be a good reason to avoid discussing the subject and declaring it settled.

-Will (Dragonfly)
 
Oct 19, 2017
7,795
O'Day 19 Littleton, NH
As a retired science teacher who just bought a sailboat I love to see the explanation of the applications of SCIENCE!
Welcome to SBO. It sounds like a great forum just got even better. Hope to hear from you a lot.

-Will (Dragonfly)
 
May 24, 2004
7,140
CC 30 South Florida
Pedantic semantics get frantic but can be fantastic for gigantic ego boosting intellectual gymnastics.

-Will (Dragonfly)
Intellectual Gymnastics? Is that like picturing your boat anchored in the blue turquoise waters of a cove in a deserted Caribbean island? If it is not, I'm not interested.
 
Oct 19, 2017
7,795
O'Day 19 Littleton, NH
To further clarify my discussion of mirages, I found this picture that explains the concept of light reflection on smooth mirror-like surfaces verses rough surfaces.

Here's a little jargon to helphttp://data:image/png;base64,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
'normal' in physics, usually refers to a force or reference standard at a right angle to a plane or line.
="http://farside.ph.utexas.edu/teaching/302l/lectures/node127.html"]The law of reflection states that the incident ray, the reflected ray, and the normal to the surface of the mirror all lie in the same plane. Furthermore, the angle of reflection
is equal to the angle of incidence
. Both angles are measured with respect to the normal to the mirror.
As the angle of the incident ray on the rough surface becomes more acute, the points of reflection move to exclude more of the troughs in the rough surface and the back sides of the protruding points. Thus, the surfaces struck by the incidence rays begin to equal each other in their normal angles more and more.
Interestingly, I found this picture on a painting Web site, not a science Web site.

This is about light's behavior on water.

-Will (Dragonfly)
 
Last edited:
Feb 20, 2011
8,019
Island Packet 35 Tucson, AZ/San Carlos, MX
http://data:image/png;base64,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
'
Hardly on-topic, but you've reminded me of

 

JamesG161

SBO Weather and Forecasting Forum Jim & John
Feb 14, 2014
7,707
Hunter 430 Waveland, MS
middle school 50 years ago.
I never saw that at all.:pimp:

There is a great part where Donald gets educated on the...
Golden Section or the Pentagon mystery.
Cool companions to flowers shapes that match it.
Jim...
 
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jssailem

SBO Weather and Forecasting Forum Jim & John
Oct 22, 2014
21,991
CAL 35 Cruiser #21 moored EVERETT WA
Disney did a lot of good in the development and promotion of their characters. Don't see that in the current productions. Just entertainment no real educational component.

In Theaters

  • Incredibles 2
  • Solo: A Star Wars Story
  • Avengers: Infinity War
  • Ralph Breaks the Internet: Wreck-It Ralph 2
  • Christopher Robin
 
Oct 19, 2017
7,795
O'Day 19 Littleton, NH
I also remember the Donald Duck tour of mathematics from middle school. It was the only introduction to the ancient Greek institution of Pythagoreans I ever got until I began researching Pythagoras in collage after a comment in a math class that Pythagoreans didn't eat beans and were the only monastic order to give women equal status. I decided that the bean fast diet was probably because they included women and that Pythagoras and the Pythagoreans were more important to the development of modern civilization than I had ever been taught. Basically, science, as an organized discipline for study of the universe, started with him. Pretty big contribution to be overlooked in our history classes.

-Will (Dragonfly)
 
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JamesG161

SBO Weather and Forecasting Forum Jim & John
Feb 14, 2014
7,707
Hunter 430 Waveland, MS
This is about light's behavior on water.
I was remembering a SBO thread on wind speed detection by visible ocean sea state.

Then I thought of the great pictures of Sailboats showing a silky, smooth, water surface reflections of the surroundings.

Then there is the distortion of light when scuba or snorkeling under water.

In sailing, we use Sun light to power our boats and abhor light's UV degradation of our sails and boats.
We use artificial light to identify our boats stern and bow at night, beam lights for dark passages, and now even infrared light to see in the dark.

Weather patterns are Sun light driven, which is the key to safe sailing.

I see the light...
Jim...
 
Oct 19, 2017
7,795
O'Day 19 Littleton, NH
Science, sailing and art. Science and art very closely related in that they fundamentally are about observation and paying attention to the world around us. Using my example of the nature of mirages and reflecting/refracting light, I have noticed when walking through a shopping mall, the tiled floor is reflective of light because it is glossy. It is also reflective of images when you look out at the floor on a more acute angle. Look at your feet and you see the shine of the ceiling lights, but no image of your feet or your face looking back at you. Look out and the farther out you look, the more clear the mirrorred images of the people walking along ahead of you get. As an artist, I tend to see things like this with the thought, 'how would I paint this scene?' As a scientist, I would look and observe in exactly the same way, but for a different reason, maybe. This is also a huge part of sailing. To rely on nature to provide the motive forces that drive your vessel demands attention to nature and its ontology. We NEED to be observant to manage our boats because they work with the environment as opposed to powerboats which work almost in spite of it.

-Will (Dragonfly)
 
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Oct 19, 2017
7,795
O'Day 19 Littleton, NH
Long distance navigation. I took a class once, called Geometries. It focused on non-euclidean geometry: hyperbolic and spherical. The differences are fascinating and the similarities are even more fascinating. Euclides developed his famous postulates about geometry and all, but one, hold true in all regular (uniformly organized and formulaic) geometry. The one postulate that doesn't carry through to non-Euclidian geometry is the infamous parallel postulate. What's interesting about that is that Euclid himself hesitated to include the parallel postulate. In fact, I seem to remember him giving the proof, but not actually giving it full postulate status, or something like that. It was later mathematicians who compiled Euclid's work on the parallel postulate into what it is today.
Why didn't Euclides follow through with that proof? Because he was working in both flat plane space and spherical space (my guess, no source to cite, although I doubt it's an original idea).
What happens if a sailor at the equator sail's 0 degrees North from just off the coast of Africa for a week then turns a ninty degree angle to sail West for a week, then turns 90 degrees so sail South for a week before finally turning 90 degrees to be sailing East for a week (given the speed over ground was consistent the entire trip)? Now try the same exercise on a sphere measuring your actual angle of heading change (90 degrees) with a protractor instead of a compass. What happens?
Where do you end up?
How many degrees are in a triangle measured across the Earth's surface?

This is a two question essay quiz. Good luck.

-Will (Dragonfly)
 
Jan 1, 2006
7,338
Slickcraft 26 Sailfish
Long distance navigation. I took a class once, called Geometries. It focused on non-euclidean geometry: hyperbolic and spherical. The differences are fascinating and the similarities are even more fascinating. Euclides developed his famous postulates about geometry and all, but one, hold true in all regular (uniformly organized and formulaic) geometry. The one postulate that doesn't carry through to non-Euclidian geometry is the infamous parallel postulate. What's interesting about that is that Euclid himself hesitated to include the parallel postulate. In fact, I seem to remember him giving the proof, but not actually giving it full postulate status, or something like that. It was later mathematicians who compiled Euclid's work on the parallel postulate into what it is today.
Why didn't Euclides follow through with that proof? Because he was working in both flat plane space and spherical space (my guess, no source to cite, although I doubt it's an original idea).
What happens if a sailor at the equator sail's 0 degrees North from just off the coast of Africa for a week then turns a ninty degree angle to sail West for a week, then turns 90 degrees so sail South for a week before finally turning 90 degrees to be sailing East for a week (given the speed over ground was consistent the entire trip)? Now try the same exercise on a sphere measuring your actual angle of heading change (90 degrees) with a protractor instead of a compass. What happens?
Where do you end up?
How many degrees are in a triangle measured across the Earth's surface?

This is a two question essay quiz. Good luck.

-Will (Dragonfly)
Geez Will, you're making my brain hurt. Maybe tomorrow.
 
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Nov 1, 2017
635
Hunter 28.5 Galveston
Nice introductory video of sail physics.

-Will (Dragonfly)
.
- Square riggers were not slow
- Square riggers could sail approximately 55 degrees to the wind (on a good day)
- Most square riggers didn’t only have squares’ls. They also flew stays’ls between masts and fore and aft sails which were triangular and gaff-rigged (spanker) and tops’l on the mizzen.
 
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jssailem

SBO Weather and Forecasting Forum Jim & John
Oct 22, 2014
21,991
CAL 35 Cruiser #21 moored EVERETT WA
@Will Gilmore
If I understand the assumptions of your problem, My answere would be that the boat would be on the same Latitude that it started, but would Fall short of the Longitude stating point. The distance from the starting point would depend on the value of constant speed.
 
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Oct 19, 2017
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O'Day 19 Littleton, NH
Nice rebuttle Simon.

John. You are correct, of course.
Now, what happens when you measure your turning angle with a protractor rather than with a magnetic compass?

-Will (Dragonfly)
 
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