PERKINS 4107 RAW WATER PUMP

[jssailem]

The engineers made the water pump inaccessible on my 1974 boat. I figure it is about time I replace the impeller. I located the raw water pump. Challenge is that the 4 plate screws are inaccessible. The pump is facing the engine bulkhead. It is about 10 inches from the pump.

Here are some pictures. Any one with some ideas I would be greatful in helping me attack the problem.


You can see the 4 screws on the plate in the first photo. I tried to loosen the straight slot screws with a 90 degree screwdriver. No luck. It was slipping in out of the slot. I was wondering what is the pump like. Can I remove the 4 nuts holding the pump to the engine? What will I find? Likely a shaft. Would there be an index point on the shaft. If I remove the whole pump I can then remove and replace the impeller on my work bench.

Thanks for your insight.

 

[bobtigar]

Its probably just like my 4-108. The shaft that drives the pump has a center raised portion that fits a slot on the pump. You really cant screw it up. You'll need a new gasket to fit between the pump and the mount. Bob

 

[jssailem]

Thanks Bob. Can you take a picture of your pump?

 

[JamesG161]

I remove the whole pump I can then remove and replace the impeller on my work bench.

Don't do it!

Use these to remove the cover plate that has the screws.
First use a penetrating oil.
https://www.lowes.com/pd/3-IN-ONE-4-oz-Penetrant-Drip-Oil/50370416
to help release.

These are a small ratcheting with box end.
https://www.lowes.com/pd/Kobalt-10-Piece-Ratcheting-Hex-Multi-Bit-Screwdriver-Set/1171067
or this
https://www.lowes.com/pd/Stanley-32-Piece-Screwdriver-Bit-Set/1000332301

The gasket is "onion skin" thin and must be used since the cover plate is part of the impeller seal.

Perkins makes a replacement screw with a hex head now.
Jim...

 

[dlochner]

Well, I was about to recommend a Speedseal as a replacement cover, but alas, he has closed his business. Perhaps some enterprising soul will buy his business.

http://speedseal.com

 

[jon hansen]

kroil, blaster, ...... your favorite penetrating oil. everything jim writes is how it is for me too. my 107's pump has total access. so right tool for the job big blade flat screw driver that is a perfect fit for the slots. so it's a 90 degree screw driver or create temp access ports for the screw driver head on. the rubber blades of the impeller are stiff. soapy water is the lube i use to push it in. it's firm to yank the old one and it's firm to get the new impeller pushed in. honestly john, the rubber blades do have a expiration date. every time i change this i am glad i did.
kroil some more.

me, i might cut a big screw driver down and use a crescent wrench on the shaft.
....or dremil tool a hole in the bulkhead then re glass. i build big RC airplanes. i got allot of micro tools that i can open up anything to make ports.

mine boat is fresh water. the pump cover plate end looks new. the screw slots are clean. the switch out of impeller is easy. i'm just saying the switchout is a reasonable project.

 

[dlochner]

.or dremil tool a hole in the bulkhead then re glass.

I like the install and access port idea. But rather than seal it back up with glass, install an inspection port like this one from Beckson: https://www.defender.com/product3.jsp?path=-1|7504|2290180|2290183&id=47488

 

[jssailem]

Thanks James. I was looking at those tools next. Just tried what I had on hand. It was so tempting to think about dislodging the whole pump. It was the wonder about what was behind door number 2. Thanks.

Dave, I looked at speedseal 4 or so weeks ago. Then when I sent on line to buy one saw the closed note. Bummer.

I’ll be calling Perkins today about the hex head option. Fortunately there only 40 minutes away if no traffic otherwise 2 hours. Just love the hiways setup for 1 million cars and 3 million are trying to use them.

 

[JamesG161]

I had a slight drip from mine, which was "tolerated" by my boat's PO. I was told by my trusted son-in-law's, I needed to completely rebuild by Volvo Penta [Perkins] water pump.
You maybe able get that thin gasket from Volvo Penta too.

After changing out the impeller, the "drip" stopped.
_______
I am now removing all the "drip corrosion" and will have my engine drip area restored to @Rich Stidger show room perfect VP engine. He has the same year and model Volvo Penta and guided me on the restoration path.
____
The "pump" is gear driven and the bearings are "pressed" onto the geared shaft. Not a "on my bench" type of fun.
My engine hours are about 1380 after 19 years of use.
Jim...

 

[jssailem]

My engine hours are “No one knows”
I’ve recorded 241 hours in the past 3 years. Probably the most use the boat has had in the past 15 years.
No drips... Plenty of water flowing while running the engine. Just preventative maintenance.

 

[Charles Erwin]

John.

No meed for long drive. These hex fasteners are plain vanilla stanless screws. Decent hatdware store has em.

Charles

 

[Rich Stidger]

Speedseal out of business? Not good for replacement parts.

 

[Sumner]

...It was so tempting to think about dislodging the whole pump. It was the wonder about what was behind door number 2.....

Yours looks to be the same as our Perkins 4-108. If so ....

... above is what is behind the pump most likely. I replaced the impeller but then the pump was weeping out of the holes on the side behind the front part of the pump indicating the seal on the pump shaft was bad. I pulled the pump and rebuilt it with a kit from here...

https://www.ebay.com/itm/Sherwood-G...ash=item1c48ee4376:g:S6AAAOSwol5Y0Jl-&vxp=mtr

I have a hydraulic press so it was not hard, but it would be without one. Here is a link to someone doing this without a press....

http://www.cruisersforum.com/forums/f54/rebuilding-sherwood-g65-for-perkins-4-108-a-20618.html

If I didn't have a press I'd probably have someone else do it. Mine looked like the one in the link with the bearings rusted. If yours is not weeping water and those holes are open then you probably just need an impeller kit like I got if you have the same pump ...

http://marinepumpdirect.com/sherwoo...bdhngmUI1MT4p_EwAIcBIuH3dJPe6-wRoCzagQAvD_BwE

Good luck with the job and I agree about putting in an access plate. Since our boat sits for long periods between running the engine I replace the impeller every year when we return to the boat. I have a friend that put a rebuilt diesel in his boat and the impeller in the pump was suppose to be new but still disintegrated when they were out and plugged things up. A real mess,

Sumner
====================================================================================
1300 miles to The Bahamas and Back in the Mac...
Endeavour 37 Mods...
MacGregor 26-S Mods...
Mac Trips to Utah, Idaho, Wyoming, Canada, Florida, Bahamas

 

[Ward H]

Just preventative maintenance.

Which means you’ll replace it again. You'll like the access port the next time and really really like it if the empeller needs replacing on one of your cruises.

 

[All U Get]

Well, I was about to recommend a Speedseal as a replacement cover, but alas, he has closed his business. Perhaps some enterprising soul will buy his business.

http://speedseal.com

Noooooooooooooooo, I bought speedseal covers for my main engine and generator just so I could easily replace the impellers which I have done so. The cover on the engine is nearly inaccessible so its been working well for me. Somebody please defer your retirement and buy this business.

 

[jviss]

I was going to suggest Speedseal, too, as I have one on mine. Other than the "O"-ring, what spares might me needed?

 

[dlochner]

I was going to suggest Speedseal, too, as I have one on mine. Other than the "O"-ring, what spares might me needed?

The knobbed screws that have a penchant for inspecting inaccessible areas of your bilge.

 

[jviss]

The knobbed screws that have a penchant for inspecting inaccessible areas of your bilge.

Aha! Yes. When I took possession of my boat, I found that there was an envelope with two knurled screws. When I looked at the impeller cover I noted three knurled and two conventional screws. I'm sure there are two knurled screws in the bilge.

 

[jssailem]

Speed seal looked so slick. It was a by your seat business model When the seat left the doors closed.
Sad.
Had a good. Sail till the wind got straight on our nose. So fired up the Iron Ginny and we powered the rest of the 18 miles to Poulsbo. Just finished a nice Italian Sicilian Lasgana and great glass of Chianti, well ok 2 glasses. Then we remembered we had pieces of Cherry Chocolate cake waiting on the boat. Found a Gelato shop and picked up a dish of Vanilla. Sitting here enjoying the evening. Some great guitar jazz. And the Ice Cream and Cake. This sailing life is great.

 

[jviss]

Speed seal looked so slick. It was a by your seat business model When the seat left the doors closed.
Sad.
Had a good. Sail till the wind got straight on our nose. So fired up the Iron Ginny and we powered the rest of the 18 miles to Poulsbo. Just finished a nice Italian Sicilian Lasgana and great glass of Chianti, well ok 2 glasses. Then we remembered we had pieces of Cherry Chocolate cake waiting on the boat. Found a Gelato shop and picked up a dish of Vanilla. Sitting here enjoying the evening. Some great guitar jazz. And the Ice Cream and Cake. This sailing life is great.

Wow, sounds like heaven! (Except 18 miles of motoring!)