I hear ya, but I have little faith in either lawyers or insurance companies to bring the innocently killed or maimed back to life.
Navigation Channel Markers
- Thread starter BobbyFunn
- Start date
Fellow Libertarian, know that licensing under those circumstances is meant to improve freedom by insuring improved education around activities that might otherwise be dangerous to others. I don't feel my freedom is impinged upon because it is required that I learn the rules of the road and safe driving practices to join others in using the city, state and federal road system. I would, however, feel my freedom was being restricted unduly by requiring the same to operate a vehicle on my own private property.
After all, we live at least part of our lives in a community where others have to trust that poor judgement and training, on the part is their neighbors, won't get them hurt or killed.
I believe in freedom at the cost of safety until that freedom costs the safety of others practicing their freedoms.
- Will (Dragonfly)
I agree that this is usually the case, but there are some exceptions that I am aware of. Some of the recreational guys around here fish cannon ball downriggers off one side of the boat. In many of those cases, the boat may not be able to turn away from the rigger without wrapping a stainless steel cable around the prop. This is especially true of outboards & I/Os with the short arm downriggers that are commonly used on smaller boats.
A small boat fishing a greenstick is probably also restricted significantly.
Also, just for general perspective, It is not uncommon for recreational trolling guys around me to drag lines 200 or even 300 yards back when they are fishing on the outside. Some of the braided fishing lines that are commonly in use these days are pretty effective at cutting up seals when they get wrapped around a prop shaft. I've seen some of those lines cut through rub rail & even fiberglass when a fish goes on a hot run.
To claim the position in the hierarchy they would need to display the lights or the day shapes associated with it.
Bet they don't
Bet they don't
Around here, we called that flat lining, that's what the guy was doing in my earlier post. There was no way of knowing where his lure was and he was in a small boat with an outboard. Altering course to avoid him was not a quick simple duck his stern, it would have required a gybe sailing some unknown distance and then gybing again.
This is also done in our area. This is fine in open waters, but in a channel or harbor, this is a bad practice, because it necessarily limits the boats maneuverability. Yes, the fish might be in the harbor, but that doesn't give anyone the right to obstruct the harbor or channel. Out on the lake they use 4 outriggers, 2 in close and 2 on planer boards about 100 feet abeam of the boat. They take up a lot of water.
The good news is the trophy hunting fisherman have mostly moved on. The guys out there now are much more respectful of sailors and other boaters. Now if they would only watch their wake, while we're taking out sails down....
My recollection of the inconvenience imposed on us by the tribe if fisherman trolling in the harbor access channel (Lake MI to Muskegon Lake) wasn't the speed, wasn't the intrusion (had to slowly and carefully navigate around and through the array of boats), wasn't the delay is cost us (maybe 15 minutes), it was the stink! When behind these guys running 2,3 and even 4 abreast the exhaust for those old 2-cycle engines at just above idle was making us choke!!!!
Recreational fishing boats have no more priority than any other motor boat. None! If they don't have the commercial fishing day/night shapes and lights, then they must follow the rules to the letter for a power driven vessel. Your responsibility is to act accordingly. If they choose to block a fairway or put their gear in harm's way, it is their choice, and short of a collision, you have no obligation to avoid their gear. Another good reason to have a cutter on your running gear if you are in waters frequented by inconsiderate or ignorant recreational fishermen. Perhaps if they lose enough gear, they will learn to fish outside of the marked, navigable channels.
If they are restricted in ability to maneuver due to the gear that they have out, then I believe that they do gain stand on status, as would a commercial guy. Yes, they need to give proper notice. No, this is not often the case in reality. Very few recreational fishermen ever qualify for stand on status as a fishing vessel. Very few is not quite the same as none.
I believe that you do have an obligation to avoid their gear, just like you have an obligation to avoid every other type of collision. If you intentionally run into their gear, I believe that puts you in a position of liability.
I agree that they should not block a fairway. I agree that they should not fish in the marked channels when other traffic is in the area.
No, they do NOT! If their gear restricts their maneuverability, then they should pull it in. They have no more rights than any other power driven vessel, PERIOD.
There were once, and may still be a few, sailing salmon trollers off the west coast, so your question may be more valid than you thought. However, registration has nothing to do with anything. I'm a documented vessel with 10% commercial fishing (for fish boat prices on diesel) but it affords me zero benefits in the Colregs, unless I am actively engaged in commercial fishing with the appropriate day shape and lights showing.
From the USCG Documentation site: National Vessel Documentation Center - FAQ
ARE THERE DIFFERENT TYPES OF DOCUMENTATION?
Yes. A Certificate of Documentation may be endorsed for fishery, coastwise, registry, or recreation. Any documented vessel may be used for recreational purposes, regardless of its endorsement, but a vessel documented with a recreational endorsement only may not be used for any other purpose. Registry endorsements are generally used for foreign trade.
The history of USCG documentation was to create a register of vessels US flagged vessels. Way back, long before any of were born (think the War of 1812), the government wanted to know what kind of vessels would be available for military use in the event of a war, thus the various documentation categories. Of course over time the military need for vessels has declined and other reasons for documentation have evolved, like proof of ownership.
I had a similar encounter in that entrance, but the hundreds of boats fishing there were anchored and fishing. There was literally no way I was going to navigate my 80' vessel though that mass of illegal and incredibly inconsiderate boaters at idle speed. So I put her up to a speed that gave me excellent maneuverability and them heart attacks as I wove my way through the mess. There were innumerable complaints to the CG and when they arrived at the boat to cite me, I demanded the name of the ranking officer of the station. Once I had it in hand, I made a phone call to CG headquarters in Washington DC, right in front of the boarding coasties, to make a formal complaint that the station was not keeping the channel clear for vessels to transit the entrance.
The shoe quickly slipped to the other foot and they left rather quickly without issuing me a citation. One hour before my departure I called the station to inform them that I would be needing a clear fairway out to the lake. Miraculously, there were no fishing boats in the channel, that time.
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Actually, the military used yachts for coastal defense through WWII. Many sailing boats were used for anti-submarine detection and defense. What a great gig for a sailor that must have been!
@capta while the vessel we navigate is just half the length and I would be a third the displacement I was very nervous as I cleared the marina (Harbor Village) and made my way out on Muskegon lake, I had to swing far to the East to miss all the fishing boats anchored and trolling at the mouth of the channel going out the big lake. This was my first time piloting the vessel once in the channel it was plugged with boats trolling, it is a good thing there wasn't a strong wind blowing across the channel as it would have made navigation more difficult than the situation already demanded. But that is Lake Michigan in the fall the salmon run and the fishers are out there attempting to stock their freezer. Like I said the stink was worse than anything!
I feel for you, I have had a few fishermen insist that they do have navigation status. And they can get pretty animated about it. If I can fall off a few degrees to meet them half way on avoiding grief I am happy to do so. After that I simply stand up and stare at the captain so he knows I see him. These guys can be very aggressive and I know some of the local boys carry weapons, but they know me too.
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