Navigation Channel Markers

Oct 29, 2016
1,929
Hunter 41 DS Port Huron
All this talk of provocation has me worried that there will be stories written about the water rage incident in XYZ that all started with a water ballon and ended up with 2 sailors dead from some nut case who decided that this action needed to be fixed by pulling out a real firearm and taking revengeful action, witnesses say the boat and its operators disappeared going West on the river at a high rate of speed.
 
Apr 16, 2017
841
Federation NCC-1701 Riverside
how did the BB gun rules work out for you & the rabbits?
I will neither confirm or deny success. I made a target range in the basement to refine my skills, so that was fun.

Further reading of tbe statutes spelled out that trapping was ok, killing vermin was ok, but releasing without a permit was not. So if you are a suburbanite, you must humanly free your vermin from life, but without pain and suffering, or projectiles. Not much left but clubbing, so i stopped trying and turned the backyard into a pumpkin patch.
 
Apr 16, 2017
841
Federation NCC-1701 Riverside
N
I've got one now that uses compressed air and shoots golf balls bounce one of those off of a hull and the offending sports fisher skipper would certainly notice.
Noooooo:yikes: its turned into a gun discussion.

My luck launching golfball at some 500k sport fisher...the skipper is a russion mobster enjoying his Florida vacation.
 
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Oct 19, 2017
7,976
O'Day Mariner 19 Littleton, NH
With the exception of a shotgun, or an "antique" (musket), basically everything else with a projectile over 1/2" in diameter is consider to be artillery under federal law.
What about one of these?
I am interested in building a trebuchet. My wife says no, but we now have a field that is just the right size for a small one. The other project I want to build is a railgun. Dragonfly comes first though. She is the stand on vessel in my channel. Only Winter and making a living cause her to be the give way vessel and my wife. She's always the stand on vessel.;)

- Will (Dragonfly)
 
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Jun 14, 2010
2,340
Robertson & Caine 2017 Leopard 40 CT
Back when I was an FFL holder, I followed the BATF's position on potato guns for a couple of years. They vacillated back & forth between classifying them as a toy & classifying them as a destructive device (artillery).

With the exception of a shotgun, or an "antique" (musket), basically everything else with a projectile over 1/2" in diameter is consider to be artillery under federal law. I don't know what the current position is on potato guns. If they are not currently illegal, I'm sure that they will again be illegal at some time in the future. The penalties for illegal possession of a "destructive device" are significant, if someone chooses to prosecute.

Just out of curiosity, how did the BB gun rules work out for you & the rabbits? I've had some racoon issues here. If it's allowed, that might be a nice way to handle the situation.
Raccoons are smarter than humans, and not easily intimidated. They might attack if provoked, especially if diseased or defending their young. The best course of action IMHO, is to make the place they’re invading unattractive or challenging to them. That means full enclosure for trash, chimney caps, spikes, etc. Mothballs (naphtha) might also repel them.
 

capta

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Jun 4, 2009
4,926
Pearson 530 Admiralty Bay, Bequia SVG
Channels as marked on official navigation charts are not designed for small pleasure craft. These channels are set up for commercial traffic, as are the charts. There are charts produced for recreational boating these days, but they are not printed by any official government agency.
One other thing to keep in mind if one is operating a pleasure craft in a channel marked by buoys set by the Corps of Engineers, is that they will intentionally build a shoal around the fixed marks for a channel, especially in the ICW. This servers to protect the marks from errant vessels and barges and saves the CoE a lot of repair time.
Often, there may be more water inside the mark, outside the channel, than there is close to the mark on the channel side.
I can't count the number of boats I've seen aground close to and on the channel side of marks in the ICW, over the years.
 
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pateco

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Aug 12, 2014
2,207
Hunter 31 (1983) Pompano Beach FL
I can't count the number of boats I've seen aground close to and on the channel side of marks in the ICW, over the years.
Speaking of ICW channel marks. We have quite a few down here that are wood pilings with Orange or green signs on them like these.
markers.jpg

Some of them have flashing lights on them, but many do not. Because this area is highly developed, at night there is a lot of light coming from the homes and condos along the shore. This makes seeing the unlit marks nearly impossible.

If someone were to place solar powered flashing LEDs in the correct red or green color on these unlit marks , how much trouble would they get in from the Coast Guard? :biggrin:

Like this
SOLAR FLASHING LED Marina Dock Barge Boat Safety Beacon Light
 
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capta

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Jun 4, 2009
4,926
Pearson 530 Admiralty Bay, Bequia SVG
I get a real kick out of all the hullabaloo from sailors who use the ICW. It was built as a commercial waterway and was supported by the tonnage of commercial traffic that used it. Pleasure craft got a free ride.
Commercial skippers didn't need every mark to be lit, nor did they require policing by some over zealous local LEO. They just ran their tugs and barges up and down the waterway, cursing at the fools who actually thought there was a chance in hell that the tugs and barges could avoid a collision, should the pleasure boaters put themselves in harm's way.
Then politics reared it's ugly head and funding dried up, and the waterway got shallower and shallower, cutting the commercial traffic and justifying the politician's cuts, because the tonnage decreased significantly.
I haven't used it in years, but when I did, it was a often. Ft Lauderdale to NY or even farther, the ditch was a quick (4 days) easy run inside to Newport, VA for the sport fishing boats I was delivering.
We used lots of fuel, around 800 gallons a day, and the marina's loved us. Free dinners or beer (fun tickets in Thunderbolt), and free donuts and coffee at the crack of dawn, when we departed. Good times were had by all.
On the day's voyage we would do our best to slow to pass the sailboats, but not so much the ones headed against us, as they'd take the wake on the bow. As any power boater knows, a boat on a full plane throws a lot smaller wake than one that is not, so slowing was a double edged sword. And those big, 1500 horsepower turbo diesels do not like going up and down, speed wise. It really screws them up. They are designed to go nearly flat out or trolling speed, not up and down a couple of dozen times a day. So not slowing for oncoming boats was more than just discourteousness. Of course, we would go outside whenever possible, but during the winter, those days were few and far between.
If anyone gets underway, be it in the ICW or the ocean, it is prudent seamanship to stow things away and secure hatches. If a sailor does not do this and encounters a wake that swamps their forward cabin through an open hatch, or throws unstowed items hither and yon around the cabin, they certainly cannot blame the boat that made the wake. Does not everyone who navigates the ICW know that this scenario is probable, if not certain?
Lastly, if a motor boat is coming up behind you and wants to pass you, SLOW DOWN to idle speed or even pull her out of gear for a minute or two, if you don't want a giant wake. The courteous motor boat skipper will slow down to pass in narrow water, but if you don't slow down sufficiently, then the motor boat cannot get by you without throttling up and making a much bigger wake. Your choice, not the power boater's. After all, he's adding time to his trip to slow for you, you can reciprocate, can't you?
I no longer run the ditch, so don't go yelling at me that I am an assh*ole. I had a job to do and I was using a commercial waterway for commercial purposes and was trying to be as courteous as possible within the constraints of my vessel.
It is up to all of us to understand the other boaters' needs and limitations, and act accordingly.
 
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Jan 19, 2010
12,557
Hobie 16 & Rhodes 22 Skeeter Charleston
.....

If someone were to place solar powered flashing LEDs in the correct red or green color on these unlit marks , how much trouble would they get in from the Coast Guard? :biggrin:.....
You only get in trouble if you get caught....
But if you want to avoid the possibility of trouble get you one of these....

http://store.marinebeam.com/marinebeam-ultra-long-range-led-illuminator-flashlight/

I have one... they are crazy. I can light up a marker or tree stump from a quarter mile away. The beam is a focused square designed to light up markers. It will blow your mind.


 
Jun 14, 2010
2,340
Robertson & Caine 2017 Leopard 40 CT
I’m sure that marinebeam is a great light, but I think it’s a bit pricey for a single-use light that’s rarely needed. A set of 7x50 binos is better and more useful for night vision and general use.
Search Amazon for “XM-L2” LED flashlight (“XM-L2” is brighter than “XM-L”) and pick a zoomable model using 18650 batteries. These are incredibly bright, probably just as bright as the Marinebeam and MUCH more versatile to be able to adjust the beam from a collimated long range pencil-beam (also square) to a wide dispersed cone more useful for walks ashore and general flashlight use. Not only that, but you can get good ones for $10-20 including 1 or 2 batteries. (I’d skip the cheap chargers included in the sets and buy a “smart charger“ and extra battery separately. )
 
Oct 19, 2017
7,976
O'Day Mariner 19 Littleton, NH
... the ICW. It was built as a commercial waterway and was supported by the tonnage of commercial traffic that used it.
And so goes the railroads, the Eisenhower highway system, and the Internet. They were all built with the country's defence in mind a way of moving troops, equipment and information easily around and across the country. The public is "allowed" to use it but the federal government maintained it.

- Will (Dragonfly)
 
Apr 16, 2017
841
Federation NCC-1701 Riverside
Your choice, not the power boater's. After all, he's adding time to his trip to slow for you
You wont find many here that will take pity on how ineffecient the fuel burn for delivery is. That is as much recreational as leading a paddleboard eco tour. Now if you were hauling coal or military waste from houston to new orlean in the icw to avoid the german uboats then id say you were a stand on vessel.

Cant say i wouldnt mind trading my job for a delivering sport fishing boats down the icw.

I think i have a good idea about channels now.

Its a zero trust game, assured only by tbe mutal destruction of collision. I have to assume responsibility for the safety of my self and crew knowing that there are assholes who dont give a f, and i will assume command of my space in the channel, since i wont give a f about you.

Manners cost nothing so i'll follow the rules politely, but should not expect others to do so. The rules themselves aren't hard to follow.

Its like the prisoners dilemma. If we work together and cooperate we'll get more as a community, but all it takes is a couple cheaters to break down the advantage of cooperation.
 
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Apr 16, 2017
841
Federation NCC-1701 Riverside
Let's go at this from a different angle. Would the coast guard and other government agencies rather have snowbirds and other boaters use the ocean or gulf rather than the icw?

Is the icw still used for that much bulk cargo? Its my understanding that there isnt enough cargo to pay for maintenance anymore.

My original question was for any channel though and not just the icw.
 
Apr 16, 2017
841
Federation NCC-1701 Riverside
Check this gem out.
In Florida its unlawful to sit on gunwale of a boat or anywhere else such as the bow or transom, where falling overboard is possible. There does not appear to be an exception for sailing.
 

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Jan 11, 2014
12,910
Sabre 362 113 Fair Haven, NY
Its a zero trust game, assured only by tbe mutal destruction of collision. I have to assume responsibility for the safety of my self and crew knowing that there are assholes who dont give a f, and i will assume command of my space in the channel, since i wont give a f about you.
I'm not certain that this the "every man for himself" approach is the best approach to dealing with our fellow boaters. Our entire social system is based on trust that everyone will follow the rules, on the water, on the road, standing in line at the grocery store, etc. That is how a civilized society works. Assuming malintent by others yields societies like Syria, Somalia, Afghanistan, Pakistan, Myanmar, and dozens of other third world nations. It leads to a sense of entitlement and increased violence, often with devices of increased lethality, devices far more lethal than a tennis ball cannon. (For example see this article: Attributions of Malintent | Psychology Today)

If we are to have safe and functioning waterways three conditions are necessary, boaters who are knowledgeable about the rules of the road, boaters who follow the rules, and trust that we are all working together to keep all of us safe. These conditions are necessary, but not sufficient. A fourth condition is essential, an awareness of what other boaters are doing, situational awareness if you will. A condition required by the ColRegs.

Collectively (and I'm certainly a contributor) we find stories about bad boaters far more interesting to share than those about good boaters. Last summer a tug and barge were coming down the Hudson River, the captain hailed us on the VHF and asked our intentions, we responded and cleared the way for the tug to pass. A few miles down the river, in a narrow spot, with a turn right after a bridge, a small (~20ft) sailboat was in the channel. We heard the captain hail on the VHF with no response, the sailboat was not getting out of the way, and then the repeated horn blasts. With little room to spare, the sailboat finally cleared the channel. When the captain returned to his dock, which story do you think he told, the story about the boat that got of his way or the one that didn't?

A better example than the Prisoner's Dilemma (Prisoner's dilemma - Wikipedia) is the tragedy of the Commons (Tragedy of the commons - Wikipedia). A channel is limited and shared resource, when cooperation dominates, everyone benefits. Conversely, when one takes advantage of a common resource, the resource collapses.

To paraphrase Henry Kissinger in restricted waterways "we must trust, but be watchful."

Edit: fixed a autocorrect error.
 
Jul 12, 2011
1,165
Leopard 40 Jupiter, Florida
On Dlochner's requirement "... boaters who are knowledgeable about the rules of the road ....", after a few close passes with other boaters, I was curious about the general knowledge level of my fellow mariners. I took a US Power Squadron Seamanship course, which is the first of a series of USPS courses but is not required by any insurance company or state law. First, the class was exceedingly small - six students - indicating either a lack of marketing or interest. The other students, all power boaters, were willing to learn, but started out very ignorant of boating basics and steering rules - not a criticism for an introductory course. I believe they represented the people in the area most interested in learning and following the rules and safety guidance, but at the beginning were woefully ignorant of the basics. Most recreational boaters view it as they do any other hobby like riding a bicycle or playing tennis - if you graduated high school, you probably know enough of the basics that you can do it. My classmates viewed crossing situations like driving around a big parking lot at the mall - if you catch the other guys attention, you can go ahead. Watch out for all those guys, because they're not mean, they're ignorant.
 
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Apr 16, 2017
841
Federation NCC-1701 Riverside
Our entire social system is based on trust that everyone will follow the rules, on the water, on the road, standing in line at the grocery store, etc.
This is what i meant to say. :plus:

We need to cooperate and be civilized, but being responsible also means being prepared for the events that are common for the area. Keep the navigation transactional.
 
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capta

.
Jun 4, 2009
4,926
Pearson 530 Admiralty Bay, Bequia SVG
You wont find many here that will take pity on how ineffecient the fuel burn for delivery is.
Gee, what a strange statement coming from a sailboat owner. A sailboat, unlike a motor boat, has the option of going outside and SAILING, using little or no fuel. And yet so many sailors choose to go inside, be it because they are scared to go outside or, gee I don't know (weather not being a factor), and plodding along at a 3 knot average. Talk about inefficiency!
I've never done the ditch on a sail boat, and I can't imagine a more boring and unnecessarily time consuming trip. At least at 20 knots plus, it was fun, challenging and interesting.