Attaching the Headstay while on the bow

[Crazy Dave Condon]

Doug J
Can you take a side view of your boat with mast up. Also standing in front of the upper or outer shroud without moving your hand and arm, pull inward with your two upper fingers only and tell appx how much you can pull onward the upper shroud.
Thanks
Dave

 

[VT Fitz]

Since you only draw about 21" with the swing keel retracted, is there a place where you can drive into shore? You should be able to stand in the water in front of the bow to get your normal perspective on the job, ala working from in front of your trailer. If you beached her firmly enough, you'd get additional stability too. Just check which direction the tide is going!!!

 

[jeffclown]

If you are using the mast raising tackle (gin pole, mainsheet pulleys, winch, etc.) you should be able to tighten it up to the point that it facilitates connecting the forestay.

+1, and to loosen the shrouds if necessary. The point of highest tension in the mast raising process should be when the mast is horizontal. You should be able to apply at least that much force in order to provide the slack to get the furler/forestay attached, right? Trying to do this with any wind or sea state would be frustrating and maybe risky, but otherwise I think it would be no problem to do it from the bow.

 

[Doug J]

Doug J
Can you take a side view of your boat with mast up. Also standing in front of the upper or outer shroud without moving your hand and arm, pull inward with your two upper fingers only and tell appx how much you can pull onward the upper shroud.
Thanks
Dave

I do have the mast up right now on the trailer, but I can't get a good side pic. I'll have to check that when I have the opportunity. It's a little hard to gauge. If I understand you correctly, I stood inside the shrouds and pulled on the upper shrouds, toward the mast. I would say I was able to pull 4-6 inches. Seemed even on both port and starboard.

 

[Doug J]

Since you only draw about 21" with the swing keel retracted, is there a place where you can drive into shore? You should be able to stand in the water in front of the bow to get your normal perspective on the job, ala working from in front of your trailer. If you beached her firmly enough, you'd get additional stability too. Just check which direction the tide is going!!!

That could be an option. I guess my thoughts have been while at a dock or on anchor.

 

[Doug J]

+1, and to loosen the shrouds if necessary. The point of highest tension in the mast raising process should be when the mast is horizontal. You should be able to apply at least that much force in order to provide the slack to get the furler/forestay attached, right? Trying to do this with any wind or sea state would be frustrating and maybe risky, but otherwise I think it would be no problem to do it from the bow.

I really would like not to change the settings on the shrouds.

In any case, I was able to pin the headstay while on the bow. I removed a set of extension tangs that previously attached to the U-bolt on the bow, and instead, attached to the point where the tack would connect if there were no furler.

I really was not comfortable with that setup as there is a crack under the rub rail, which I'm sure is a result of that connection point. (see another thread I posted about that)

I removed those tangs and replaced them with a toggle.

In doing so, the pin point is relieved by about 2.5 inches. (hope that makes sense) The shrouds still seem tight. I'm wondering if the rig was overly tight before. I don't think it should be really difficult to pin the headstay, like it was. I'll post pics soon of the final setup.

 

[Crazy Dave Condon]

Doug J
Pulling on the upper or outer shrouds with two fingers should only be 1-1/2 inch play with the mast up. Otherwise it could be overtuned or undertuned depending on what you have.
Folks, I tuned too many and even in my sleep. If tuned correctly, you will be able to pull tight on the mast raise system and pin it without tuning at all and when released having enough tuning to go sailing.

 

[Doug J]

Doug J
Pulling on the upper or outer shrouds with two fingers should only be 1-1/2 inch play with the mast up. Otherwise it could be overtuned or undertuned depending on what you have.
Folks, I tuned too many and even in my sleep. If tuned correctly, you will be able to pull tight on the mast raise system and pin it without tuning at all and when released having enough tuning to go sailing.

Hmmm. Dave I realize with your vast experience you can feel the tension of the shrouds with your fingers and know if they have the correct tension or not. But your instructions leave room for interpretation. Also the strength and weight of a person likely has an affect as to how far a shroud moves. If I had to guess, which I don't like to do, I would say my shrouds are tight enough. But what I really would prefer is to measure them with a loos guage.

 

[Crazy Dave Condon]

Doug, You have no idea as to what I have seen over the years and that includes one boat I am helping someone out as we speak. With these masts and the mast raising systems, I was involved with Hunter to a degree that no other dealer in the country was plus the fact I sold appx. 1,000 or more and tuned many that I did not sell which is why I speak from experience. So often I see gauges being used and even dealers and yards use to call me for my advice to retune. Like I tell everyone I speak from experience and knowledge and that alone has helped many over the years. We can agree to disagree but your boat is yours and yours alone to make the decisions as to how it is prepped and so on. That I will respect.

I am curious. Can you post a photo of the rubrail at the bow on the port side. In addition is the strap under the bow pressed inward with the nuts as it appears to be?

 

[Doug J]

Doug, You have no idea as to what I have seen over the years and that includes one boat I am helping someone out as we speak. With these masts and the mast raising systems, I was involved with Hunter to a degree that no other dealer in the country was plus the fact I sold appx. 1,000 or more and tuned many that I did not sell which is why I speak from experience. So often I see gauges being used and even dealers and yards use to call me for my advice to retune. Like I tell everyone I speak from experience and knowledge and that alone has helped many over the years. We can agree to disagree but your boat is yours and yours alone to make the decisions as to how it is prepped and so on. That I will respect.

I am curious. Can you post a photo of the rubrail at the bow on the port side. In addition is the strap under the bow pressed inward with the nuts as it appears to be?

Dave, don't get me wrong. I'm not questioning your abilities and expertise, or disagreeing with you. I'm just saying for my lack of test by feel abilities like you, I might be better off with a Loos gauge.

Anyway here are a couple pic's, is this what you asked for?
The last image is of an Eye Jaw Toggle I purchase only chrome plated, of the same length, that will replace the toggle you see in the pic.

 

[Crazy Dave Condon]

Doug J;
That is a good purchase and Jackdaw and others would agree. I will be glad to talk to you about the hand tensioning if you would like to on the phone. let me know if you want my number.

As for the request for the additional pictures, let me explain. The port crack at the lip of the hull to deck joint shows a crack thru the deck portion of the glass extending backwards with a slight crack what appears to be in the 5200 that marries the hull to deck joint together. I looked at the new photo and see dents/cuts in the black inserted portion of the rub rail. I think that may have been caused by a hit from the previous owner but cannot be sure. If it was from the forestay issue, then both sides should be cracked in a sense.
As for the strap under the U bolt nuts underneath, not sure but it may have been overtightend resulting in that hairline crack in what to appears to be only in the gel coat. It looks bad but cannot tell since I am there. May I suggest a slight or small 1/8 inch hole only in the gel coat to keep that crack from extending further and go ahead and repair it. I pretty sure it looks fine but I know your concern. You did say the rig was over tightened by the previous owner.
If you want to call me, send a private message and I will send you my cell phone and then you can decide but I would suggest against any gauges as my experience rigs over tightened.
Here is a Hunter 26 I am working with the new owner to correct this but waiting on two addl. photos of the shroud turnbuckles.

 

[Doug J]

Doug J;
Here is a Hunter 26 I am working with the new owner to correct this but waiting on two addl. photos of the shroud turnbuckles.View attachment 138426 View attachment 138430

I installed a CDI FF2 furler on my last boat. Looking at the pic of the boat you are working on, I would say the furler is installed incorrectly, if the turnbuckle is below the drum, it should be inside the drum. The link below accesses the CDI FF2 owners manual that clearly shows the turnbuckle inside the drum.

http://www.sailrite.com/PDF/FF2-Online-Manual.pdf

 

[Crazy Dave Condon]

you are absolutely correct on that Doug. I am waiting on photos of the shroud turnbuckles to see if there is any spacing left which to adjust. My biggest concern is the forestay whether or not wires will break and I think they will unless the owner does not follow the correct directions of the manual sent to him in a private email. This is what I come across as an example trying to untie a mess.

 

[Doug J]

Dave, I gotta ask. If I understand correctly, you're saying you sent the owner the CDI FF2 owners manual in a private email. Why don't you share all information with all here in this forum so others can benefit as well?

 

[Solarfry]

I have the CDI roller furler. I raise and lower mast on the water. Sometime while at anchor (if windy). I have the MCGregor brake winch contraption to raise and lower mast. I crank the mast upright grab the bow cleat with my right hand and move the furler to the bow stanchion with left hand, then lying on the side I can see what I am doing under the furler drum. I stick the pin in and use an easy circle clip to secure it in place. I find cotton shirts keep me from slipping off the bow. I go fwd with cotton socks on. The polyester or cot/poly socks are too slippery. Real easy and takes about 5 to 10 minutes. I got it down to three minutes now. I been doing this for several years.

 

[Crazy Dave Condon]

Doug J;
The manual for the CDI FF 2 furling manual is now in the Hunter 26 and 260 downloads if that helps sir.

 

[justsomeguy]

Doug J;
The manual for the CDI FF 2 furling manual is now in the Hunter 26 and 260 downloads if that helps sir.

I think what Doug J meant is:

Why don't you share all information with all here in this forum so others can benefit as well?

instead of going the "private" route. I think...

 

[Crazy Dave Condon]

Manual is posted under boat info for H 26 and H 260 unless there is another place to post that which I do not know about. by the way @justsomeguy I truly appreciate all the kind postings that you have contributed to this forum. Now keep sailing Captain, That is an order.

 

[justsomeguy]

I truly appreciate all the kind postings that you have contributed to this forum. Now keep sailing Captain, That is an order.

Thanks.
And we appreciate having your wisdom and experience on these forums. Now post that wisdom for all to read for all time!
It's like 100 degrees plus both here and in Mexico, so I'm going to limit my sailing for now.

 

[Crazy Dave Condon]

I thought yesterday 97 with a lot of humidity cutting brush on the side of a mountain was darn hard work. Gave up after nearly 5 hours but job done. Embankment is steep but thank goodness no copper heads nor rattlers seen. See ya. Oh tomorrow will be building bench work for my new N scale railroad layout. Sorry but no sailboats in that.