Repairing Hunter 40 damage from Hurricane Matthew

[B757Captain]

You might also want to consider power coating them. Could be faster, easier, more durable and about the same cost.

I asked my welder/fab guy, he says a coat of OSFO, then two or three coats of epoxy primer, let it cure, then paint - more durable and will withstand the environment better than powdercoating. Plus I don't think I have anyone close by that can do powdercoating. This guy has been doing marine fab work for close to as many years as I have existed, so I'm going to do what he says. Neat guy, likes to talk even more than I do. Any trip to his shop must have a time buffer built in for gabbing!

Mark

 

[B757Captain]

If you made them from Stainless Steel, you may be able to forego the coating business, that is if they remain dry (not submerged in stagnant water).

Not sure about stainless, I wonder about possible corrosion effects from dissimilar metals - bolts, motor mounts, etc. The steel ones lasted this long and probably weren't prepped very well at the factory, so I think properly treated going back with steel will outlast me.

Mark

 

[B757Captain]

They may look bad, but probably not that much structural integrity lost. The expansion rate of rust is 12:1, meaning the layer of rust you see is 12 times thicker than the metal it originally was.

One area of one of the bearers was down to about 1/64th" thickness (maybe thinner!) of what could generously be called good remaining material. Time for replacement!

 

[B757Captain]

So today was time spent working mostly on the engine. Scrubbing rust with a wire brush, pulling hoses and other pieces off to access areas for paint. I did want to inspect the heat exchanger while I have easy access to everything, and there is where things went wrong!

I managed to break the head of one bolt each on the HE covers! Rats! Good news is that there is a little bit of stud remaining, bad news is no dice on getting them to start turning. I got one drilled out but I can't find my easy-outs. I need some long drill bits to drill the other broken bolt, so while it's storming tomorrow I get to go shopping (guy shopping at the hardware store, yay!).

The heat exchanger did have three tubes with some blockage so I used the brush from my gun cleaning kit to clean out the tubes. The rest looks good but the o-rings look like they could be replaced. Anyone done that before? My manual has zero info on how to accomplish this.

Another item to address now is the exhaust system. The mixing elbow, though not completely blocked, has started the dreaded carbon/scale buildup. This was a poor design from the factory - the mixing elbow isn't even for the 4JHE, it's for the 3 cyl. Hunter had space issues and got Yanmar to agree to the setup but it has caused many problems over the years. I might have pics to show the setup, but in a nutshell, the exhaust leaves the manifold, makes a 90 straight up to the mixing elbow, 180 in the elbow to attach to the exhaust hose which makes an immediate 90 to run forward over the top of the heat exchanger, then makes a 90 straight down the front of the engine to the lift muffler, mounted under the engine. Then the hose leaves the muffler, makes a 90 straight up the back of the engine to the siphon loop, back down to run overboard. The hose makes another smaller loop before exiting at the bottom of the hull just in front of the transom. Lots of hose, lots of backpressure. I can't wait on this because I have to decide on the location of the muffler before dropping the engine back in - there's not enough room to fit the muffler in the factory location with the engine installed.

So lots of research for the next few days to see if I can re-engineer a better system.

Cheers,

Mark

 

[JRacer]

Boy, all those 90's cause a lot of restriction I would think.

 

[SEMPERAVANTI41]

Mark, you are doing an amazing job. Just for the record, the rust treatment is OSPHO. I used to use it when I was in the welding business on railings before painting.

 

[artboas]

I asked my welder/fab guy, he says a coat of OSFO, then two or three coats of epoxy primer, let it cure, then paint - more durable and will withstand the environment better than powdercoating. Plus I don't think I have anyone close by that can do powdercoating. This guy has been doing marine fab work for close to as many years as I have existed, so I'm going to do what he says. Neat guy, likes to talk even more than I do. Any trip to his shop must have a time buffer built in for gabbing!

Mark

Mark,

Ok, no question you are very talented, and are doing an excellent job. You are lucky to have such extensive skill.
And now I'm going to say something that's hopefully taken as respectful, and not piss people off.
Firstly, there is no question that you are enjoying the process of repairing this boat. You take a lot of obvious pride.
You brought up initially that you had little regard for insurance companies, and that the premiums paid would have exceeded the boat's value in 8 years. To elect not to insure this way is called self-insurance, which typically means you stash away the cash you are saving for such a reason. I am not certain if you went down this road, so can't comment.
I took your point about being adverse to sitting in front of a loan officer ever again. I understand that some of these experiences can be demeaning, but loans are nothing more that a way to provide you with something sooner, and giving you the luxury of enjoying it while you pay it back.
There is one thing that you nor I can never buy, not for all the money in the world; that's one extra day in our lives.
Loans are a tool which help you have joyous experiences (such as owning a home) before you have every last dime.
I've sailed all my life.
When I first got married, I had 7 bucks in the bank, and a good job.
A boat was at the very bottom of our priorities.
Then a buddy died.
Next day I borrowed the dough, and bought the boat.
For that I have a lifetime of experience, and several thousand dollars in interest costs which I'll never miss.
So, here's what I'm saying. Follow your passion... Which is boats, and fixing them. But all the long hours you're spending on getting her put back together are coming from somewhere.
Don't ever let a pure financial equation stand in the way of life. It's just way too short, and you can never get back one day of it.

 

[B757Captain]

Boy, all those 90's cause a lot of restriction I would think.

Yep, I can't imagine how bad it was even when new. I have a plan for the new exhaust, still working out a few details but I think I can make a much better system.

 

[B757Captain]

Mark, you are doing an amazing job. Just for the record, the rust treatment is OSPHO. I used to use it when I was in the welding business on railings before painting.

I found it at the local hardware store:

I'm using it both on the new engine bearers and treating the rust on the engine prior to paint. Engine updates coming soon!

Mark

 

[SEMPERAVANTI41]

Art, your posting about loans and living life are spot on! In addition here in the states interest on a boat is deductible if the boat has a cabin and a head.

 

[artboas]

I get your point about loans being tax deductible, but it doesn't matter in the grand scheme of things.
You have 80 odd laps around the sun. Use them wisely.

 

[B757Captain]

Mark,

Ok, no question you are very talented, and are doing an excellent job. You are lucky to have such extensive skill.
And now I'm going to say something that's hopefully taken as respectful, and not piss people off.
Firstly, there is no question that you are enjoying the process of repairing this boat. You take a lot of obvious pride.
You brought up initially that you had little regard for insurance companies, and that the premiums paid would have exceeded the boat's value in 8 years. To elect not to insure this way is called self-insurance, which typically means you stash away the cash you are saving for such a reason. I am not certain if you went down this road, so can't comment.
I took your point about being adverse to sitting in front of a loan officer ever again. I understand that some of these experiences can be demeaning, but loans are nothing more that a way to provide you with something sooner, and giving you the luxury of enjoying it while you pay it back.
There is one thing that you nor I can never buy, not for all the money in the world; that's one extra day in our lives.
Loans are a tool which help you have joyous experiences (such as owning a home) before you have every last dime.
I've sailed all my life.
When I first got married, I had 7 bucks in the bank, and a good job.
A boat was at the very bottom of our priorities.
Then a buddy died.
Next day I borrowed the dough, and bought the boat.
For that I have a lifetime of experience, and several thousand dollars in interest costs which I'll never miss.
So, here's what I'm saying. Follow your passion... Which is boats, and fixing them. But all the long hours you're spending on getting her put back together are coming from somewhere.
Don't ever let a pure financial equation stand in the way of life. It's just way too short, and you can never get back one day of it.

I definitely get your points, but I'm sticking to my guns on dealing with banks and insurance companies!

On insurance - I wasn't fully "self-insured" since I did (and still do) carry liability on the boat. If I'd had hull insurance I would probably be about even money or slightly out of pocket on this repair - I think I know that the insurance company would have totaled the boat and I would have a check for some percentage of the market value (or if I'd had an agreed-upon value, that amount). I could have bought the boat back and had a check for the repairs, but that would have essentially just been giving them installment payments over the years. If I couldn't do the work myself I would be a fool to not carry full coverage but my circumstances affords me some flexibility. Another part to this flexibility is not owing money - if you have a loan, you will be required to carry full coverage insurance!

As to banks and loans, for years I had the typical mortgage, car loan, boat loan, credit cards, etc. A little over 15 years ago, through lucky timing in the housing market I wound up with a windfall that allowed me to pay everything off and become debt-free for the first time in my adult life. It was indescribable! I have maintained that with one exception - I did finance the boat when I bought it for the very purpose you describe! But I paid it off over the next three years. I won't go into the intricacies of bank relationships except to offer a very real scenario I have seen and still see: my profession has its ups and downs and suddenly finding oneself unemployed is very real and commonplace. Guys I have flown with have been essentially forced to take any job they can just to keep the bills paid. By being debt free I have the luxury of waiting for the right next opportunity and not having to worry that the boat (or house, or car, etc.) I've been paying for faithfully for 2 or 5 or 10 years will be taken from me over a missed payment or two. It also helps to be able to make a little more than monthly expenses - I manage that once in a while to add to the cruising kitty.

I think I'm doing what's right for me and definitely know that everybody's circumstances are different. I've been lucky that I've had the last few months to jumpstart the repairs (starting the new job next month - that's where being able to wait for the right next opportunity comes in handy) and the way things are going there will be a marina to tie the boat up to about the time I finish!

Next up: Working on engine stuff.

Cheers,

Mark

 

[B757Captain]

Engine stuff:

Lot's of stuff accomplished over the last week, but first, as I promised, pics of the old motor mounts:

Aft mounts. One completely separated, the other severely distorted:

Forward mounts. One rubber isolator was cracked and almost separated, both in sad shape:

Definitely way past time for replacement! I did find out that whoever put these mounts in messed up - the book calls for 150# mounts on the starboard side, 200# mounts on the port side (for engine torque). All four of the old mounts were 150#. Might have had something to do with the broken ones!

I fitted and installed the port-side mid/aft bulkhead and removed the center bulkhead:

I will need to cut, fit and finish the center bulkheads before dropping the engine back in so I need to get on that!

Meanwhile, I finished cleaning the engine and got it painted:

I still have a few things to do which will be easier with the engine sitting in the garage - I'm going to replace all the fuel lines, the fuel filter and oil filter. I got the new engine bearers from the welder the other day - they look great!

I pulled the prop shaft a few days ago. It needs to be checked for straightness since the strut was bent by the lift bag. The shaft coupler was corroded and I couldn't get it off, so I pulled the prop and removed the shaft from the inside. After soaking the shaft and coupler overnight they came apart. I'm still trying to get the strut off - it's fighting me but I will win!

Cheers,

Mark

 

[Alan Gomes]

RE: the Yanmar engine mounts--Though I have a much smaller Yanmar than you (a 1GM), there are different mounts specified for front and rear, not port and starboard. Maybe on your larger engine it's different. But do confirm that, as I've seen conflicting information on this. Yanmar themselves makes it clear--for my mounts, anyway--that the difference is between front and rear.

The Yanmar mounts are really garbage, by the way, and *highly* overpriced. I'm replacing mine with the original factory Yanmars becuase I managed to snag a new, never installed set for an excellent price on eBay. When I was looking at full price I had contemplated replacing them with something better and also less expensive, but the smaller Yanmar mounts are on 5" centers and all the mounts I'd get otherwise would be on 4" centers. It would not be the end of the world to make up an adapter plate, but since I got these cheap I figured I'd just stick with factory--for now. In your case, though, you might want to consider a better quality and also less expensive mount since you've got everything out. It might save you some grief in the future.

 

[B757Captain]

RE: the Yanmar engine mounts--Though I have a much smaller Yanmar than you (a 1GM), there are different mounts specified for front and rear, not port and starboard. Maybe on your larger engine it's different. But do confirm that, as I've seen conflicting information on this. Yanmar themselves makes it clear--for my mounts, anyway--that the difference is between front and rear.

The Yanmar mounts are really garbage, by the way, and *highly* overpriced. I'm replacing mine with the original factory Yanmars becuase I managed to snag a new, never installed set for an excellent price on eBay. When I was looking at full price I had contemplated replacing them with something better and also less expensive, but the smaller Yanmar mounts are on 5" centers and all the mounts I'd get otherwise would be on 4" centers. It would not be the end of the world to make up an adapter plate, but since I got these cheap I figured I'd just stick with factory--for now. In your case, though, you might want to consider a better quality and also less expensive mount since you've got everything out. It might save you some grief in the future.

Hi Alan,

I double-checked the mounts in my manual, it's specifies the heavier ones port-side.

I thought about changing to different mounts but I've read a lot of complaints about vibration from the aftermarket mounts. Seems to me to bear out - the sheer difference in rubber between factory and aftermarket. So I stayed with the Yanmar mounts even though they were more expensive.

Mark

 

[artboas]

I definitely get your points, but I'm sticking to my guns on dealing with banks and insurance companies!

On insurance - I wasn't fully "self-insured" since I did (and still do) carry liability on the boat. If I'd had hull insurance I would probably be about even money or slightly out of pocket on this repair - I think I know that the insurance company would have totaled the boat and I would have a check for some percentage of the market value (or if I'd had an agreed-upon value, that amount). I could have bought the boat back and had a check for the repairs, but that would have essentially just been giving them installment payments over the years. If I couldn't do the work myself I would be a fool to not carry full coverage but my circumstances affords me some flexibility. Another part to this flexibility is not owing money - if you have a loan, you will be required to carry full coverage insurance!

As to banks and loans, for years I had the typical mortgage, car loan, boat loan, credit cards, etc. A little over 15 years ago, through lucky timing in the housing market I wound up with a windfall that allowed me to pay everything off and become debt-free for the first time in my adult life. It was indescribable! I have maintained that with one exception - I did finance the boat when I bought it for the very purpose you describe! But I paid it off over the next three years. I won't go into the intricacies of bank relationships except to offer a very real scenario I have seen and still see: my profession has its ups and downs and suddenly finding oneself unemployed is very real and commonplace. Guys I have flown with have been essentially forced to take any job they can just to keep the bills paid. By being debt free I have the luxury of waiting for the right next opportunity and not having to worry that the boat (or house, or car, etc.) I've been paying for faithfully for 2 or 5 or 10 years will be taken from me over a missed payment or two. It also helps to be able to make a little more than monthly expenses - I manage that once in a while to add to the cruising kitty.

I think I'm doing what's right for me and definitely know that everybody's circumstances are different. I've been lucky that I've had the last few months to jumpstart the repairs (starting the new job next month - that's where being able to wait for the right next opportunity comes in handy) and the way things are going there will be a marina to tie the boat up to about the time I finish!

Next up: Working on engine stuff.

Cheers,

Mark

Don't get me wrong, I completely understand your situation. ;now better explained, and frankly, who the hell I thrying to tell you how to run. Your life'?
I hey what you said re:cyclical employment even at captain credentials. airlines will pay you off if it saves them 100 bucks, I Frankly would have a tough time skeeping at night under these circumstances.
So, it's about balance.
But, just remember that life's way to frigging short. If you can squeeze a bit more out of it, then I admire you.
Ever up in Toronto, cone sailing!!!!

Arthur

 

[B757Captain]

Motor mounts:

When dealing with replacing the motor mounts I found an odd thing. The rear mount brackets were both bent like this:

I noticed it because this was the cause of the rear mounts being deformed. The bracket foot is supposed to be 90 degrees but somebody had bent both of them. Here is where it gets strange - they were both bolted into the original holes in the engine bearers, but new holes had been drilled about 3/4 inch aft of the originals for the front mounts! Hmmm. All I can figure is that at some point someone decided the engine had to be moved 3/4" rearward and they decided this was the easiest way to do it.

So what to do. No way am I going to reinstall the new mounts like this. So I tackled it in two directions. I figured that I needed to keep the engine in the altered location but I should straighten the bracket. I measured the current setup and checked it against the dimensions in the Yanmar manual and sure enough, 3/4" short with the brackets bent.

First, I got out the BFH and hammered the brackets back to the proper shape:

Next I did some measuring of the new vs. old engine bearers. If I kept the engine bearers in the original location but moved the rear holes back, there was not enough room for the rearmost hole. So I measured and marked the holes for bearer/grid location 3/8" forward, which moved the bearers aft by 3/8". Then, using the altered front mount hole location as a guide, I marked them on the new bearers and measured from them for the rear mount holes. The new mount locations are 3/8" aft on the bearers compared to the old ones but I got the room I needed for the rearmost bolt and the engine will be back in the same location it came out from.

I drilled all the holes to mount the bearers and mounted them to mock up the engine location. I cut a piece of ply to simulate the mount locations and started aligning the bearers. After checking proper bearer angle and matching both sides I ran a string from the strut pad outside then through the shaft log to a marked centerline. I had drawn a centerline on the ply so I could line everything up and drilled the rest of the holes. Looks good so far except I broke the tip of my step drill bit in one of the holes. What a PITA to fix that!

I also cleaned up and rebed the rear keel bolt. The bearers are back off and in the garage for a coating of OSPHO then paint, the engine bilge is ready for primer and paint, and tomorrow I'll fit the center bulkheads and get them ready for finishing.

Cheers,

Mark

 

[artboas]

Motor mounts:

When dealing with replacing the motor mounts I found an odd thing. The rear mount brackets were both bent like this:



I noticed it because this was the cause of the rear mounts being deformed. The bracket foot is supposed to be 90 degrees but somebody had bent both of them. Here is where it gets strange - they were both bolted into the original holes in the engine bearers, but new holes had been drilled about 3/4 inch aft of the originals for the front mounts! Hmmm. All I can figure is that at some point someone decided the engine had to be moved 3/4" rearward and they decided this was the easiest way to do it.

So what to do. No way am I going to reinstall the new mounts like this. So I tackled it in two directions. I figured that I needed to keep the engine in the altered location but I should straighten the bracket. I measured the current setup and checked it against the dimensions in the Yanmar manual and sure enough, 3/4" short with the brackets bent.

First, I got out the BFH and hammered the brackets back to the proper shape:



Next I did some measuring of the new vs. old engine bearers. If I kept the engine bearers in the original location but moved the rear holes back, there was not enough room for the rearmost hole. So I measured and marked the holes for bearer/grid location 3/8" forward, which moved the bearers aft by 3/8". Then, using the altered front mount hole location as a guide, I marked them on the new bearers and measured from them for the rear mount holes. The new mount locations are 3/8" aft on the bearers compared to the old ones but I got the room I needed for the rearmost bolt and the engine will be back in the same location it came out from.

I drilled all the holes to mount the bearers and mounted them to mock up the engine location. I cut a piece of ply to simulate the mount locations and started aligning the bearers. After checking proper bearer angle and matching both sides I ran a string from the strut pad outside then through the shaft log to a marked centerline. I had drawn a centerline on the ply so I could line everything up and drilled the rest of the holes. Looks good so far except I broke the tip of my step drill bit in one of the holes. What a PITA to fix that!



I also cleaned up and rebed the rear keel bolt. The bearers are back off and in the garage for a coating of OSPHO then paint, the engine bilge is ready for primer and paint, and tomorrow I'll fit the center bulkheads and get them ready for finishing.

Cheers,

Mark

You must be losing a patch of hair in the location where you're continually scratching your head to figure this stuff out.
Quite odd how they mashed the original rear mounts to move the engine. You'd think if someone was talented enough to move around and re-align the Yanmar, they wouldn't resort to such barbaric measures.
Have an idea for you.
To line up the engine with the prop shaft, make a bushing, and press-fit a small laser pointer into the strut. (Remove the cutlass bearing first)
You might want to make a dummy plate which bolts onto the coupling for this.
Good luck!!

 

[B757Captain]

You must be losing a patch of hair in the location where you're continually scratching your head to figure this stuff out.
Quite odd how they mashed the original rear mounts to move the engine. You'd think if someone was talented enough to move around and re-align the Yanmar, they wouldn't resort to such barbaric measures.
Have an idea for you.
To line up the engine with the prop shaft, make a bushing, and press-fit a small laser pointer into the strut. (Remove the cutlass bearing first)
You might want to make a dummy plate which bolts onto the coupling for this.
Good luck!!

My guys here in the yard have tons of experience doing engine alignments so when the time comes I'll lean on them to help me get it right. Still a week or so away from reinstalling everything.

Yesterday's update: We had such a gorgeous day I decided to play hooky! Dropped the top on the convertible and went for a drive.

Cheers,

Mark

 

[JRacer]

"It's a ragtop day"