Thinwater; Are you suggesting that I should use PG in my engine freshwater circuit just because it has a loop that heats my hot water heater? That kind of ignores the anti-corrosion and lubrication requirements of the engine coolant system.
Winterizing plumbing
- Thread starter Peggie Hall HeadMistress
- Start date
Certainly no criticism intended here. It just had the appearance of being thin skinned.Any reason why you waited six years to criticize me for that comment?? It certainly wasn't your first post!
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I just to make it clear to folks that there can be an interconnection and that a leak can put EG in the potable system. Not that uncommon.
There are PG engine coolants that you may want to explore. Some are very good. This is not an issue I face, but I would have to give this consideration. These are 2 first-rate PG products, one LD and one HD.
http://www.starbrite.com/item/starcool-prem-engine-coolant-464-oz?category_id=518
https://www.cumminsfiltration.com/sites/default/files/LT32599_09_0.pdf
So no, there is no reason to ignore corrosion inhibitors. The lubrication claim part is a bit more amorphous, since I am not aware of any ASTM test for that (and I am on the engine coolant committee). They've been selling that for 50 years, based on what has never been clear.
Please don't get mad at me because this has been covered a million times in these threads. I have Peggie's book and use it. I will have my Hunter 31 stored on the hard in northern Michigan this winter for the first time. In the previous winters the boat was in southern Illinois. Previously I just bypassed the Force 10 water heater by connecting the hot and cold lines together and just used the drain cock to empty the hot water tank. I am concerned that with the very cold winters up north that the residual water below the drain cock in the tank will freeze and cause damage. Can someone tell me how to evacuate the tank completely air pressure or vacuum I have a shop vac and an air compressor. I have 4 access points into the tank - cold water inlet, hot water outlet, drain cock, and the TP valve. Exactly to which fitting do I attach the vacuum or air pressure and should the other 3 orifices be open or shut to get the water out?
I don't worry about the residual water. I also don't bypass the tank but I use a bottle of CO2 to purge the water out of the tanks and lines. Before last year I just used my dinghy pump to blow the lines clear but a friend who in in the fire equipment business set me up with a 5# CO2 bottle and using that it is much easier.
What I do is this: I drain all of my water tanks by running the faucets until there is no water spurting out. I then attach a hose to the drain on the hot water tank, open the P/T valve, and use a drill powered pump to pump all of the hot water out of the tank and into the bilge. I add some liquid soap to the bilge and then scrub that out and pump with the bilge pump. A couple more rinses with fresh water and my bilge is clean. Then I close the hot water tank drain and P/T valve.
I now connect the CO2 bottle to an access port that I added before the fresh water pump. With all of the faucets closed, I open each valve on the water manifold and blow any water in the line back into the water tank. I have four tanks that I clear the lines. I am not concerned with any small amount of water in the bottom of each water tank. Then with all of the manifold valves to the water tanks closed I pressurize the system and blow CO2 through the pump and purge each water line to every faucet- both hot and cold lines. I then run the drill pump to remove any small amount of water that was pushed into the hot water heater.
That's it. Done. When I used to use the dinghy pump I would do the same thing except I would disconnect the lines to and from the fresh water pump so I could blow back into the water tanks, through the pump separately, and through all of the distribution water lines. Blowing air through the water pump adds a great deal of restriction, so that is why I disconnected it. Now with my CO2 system I just pressurize the system to 30psi and walk around to each of the faucets.
What I do is this: I drain all of my water tanks by running the faucets until there is no water spurting out. I then attach a hose to the drain on the hot water tank, open the P/T valve, and use a drill powered pump to pump all of the hot water out of the tank and into the bilge. I add some liquid soap to the bilge and then scrub that out and pump with the bilge pump. A couple more rinses with fresh water and my bilge is clean. Then I close the hot water tank drain and P/T valve.
I now connect the CO2 bottle to an access port that I added before the fresh water pump. With all of the faucets closed, I open each valve on the water manifold and blow any water in the line back into the water tank. I have four tanks that I clear the lines. I am not concerned with any small amount of water in the bottom of each water tank. Then with all of the manifold valves to the water tanks closed I pressurize the system and blow CO2 through the pump and purge each water line to every faucet- both hot and cold lines. I then run the drill pump to remove any small amount of water that was pushed into the hot water heater.
That's it. Done. When I used to use the dinghy pump I would do the same thing except I would disconnect the lines to and from the fresh water pump so I could blow back into the water tanks, through the pump separately, and through all of the distribution water lines. Blowing air through the water pump adds a great deal of restriction, so that is why I disconnected it. Now with my CO2 system I just pressurize the system to 30psi and walk around to each of the faucets.
Actually, no coolant can be trusted beyond one year in boat applications, according to Yanmar and others (they accept the longer ratings for shore-based generators). The reason is potential seawater leakage. It takes only one part in one thousand to exceed the condemning limit for chloride. So either change every year, analyze, or roll the dice that you have zero heat exchanger leaks.
With shipping charges and analysis, just about the same cost as replacing the antifreeze for a small engine. And that's with distilled water.
Ralph has it right, that is the point. Changing is cheaper. Even a basic lab work up will be >$250.
But we live in Lotus Land here. The only weather extremes we see is the rain, and with the last two storms that just went through, I'd feel safer on the boat lest we float away in our houses.
So as I prep for an antifreeze drain, flush and replacement I notice that Mack Boring has a directive out that doesn't not mention those OAT antifreezes that you recommend:
http://ldmarineservice.com/files/yanmar_bulletins.pdf
And ToadMarine specifically says no to nitrite, nitrate antifreezes:
http://shop.toadmarinesupply.com/ma...ntsection=yanmar&contentname=yanmaroilcoolant
Any guidance on this confusion?
http://ldmarineservice.com/files/yanmar_bulletins.pdf
And ToadMarine specifically says no to nitrite, nitrate antifreezes:
http://shop.toadmarinesupply.com/ma...ntsection=yanmar&contentname=yanmaroilcoolant
Any guidance on this confusion?
Confusion is the word. High silicate, low silicate, no nitrates or nitrites ........ what a load. Even Mack Boring leaves you scratching your head when they say:
"Prestone Extended Life Coolant. Product code AF888. If the above coolants are not readily available, Prestone Extended life coolant is satisfactory."
First they recommend Prestone and then they say to use it as a last ditch because it's only satisfactory. I give up.
I've been using Prestone Concentrate Antifreeze/ Coolant for 17 years, change it every two years because I'm too lazy to blow out the domestic hot water heat exchanger tubes, and it's identical coming out as compared to going in after approx. 200 hours. No problems with the original pump seal after 1800 hours either. Don't know what it contains and they're not telling, but pretty bold claim to fame from a pretty big company.
There are literally hundreds of formulations out there. They have listed some of the most common OATs, but the Starcool, for example, is in the same class.
The other thing to consider is the disagreement between OEMs. The truth is that practically any quality formula will work if maintained.
The other thing to consider is the disagreement between OEMs. The truth is that practically any quality formula will work if maintained.
If you are referring to the fresh water system, the answer is NO. Just because no more water is coming out of the faucet, doesn't mean that there isn't water somewhere in the system that can freeze and cause damage. Some potential trouble spots are low areas in water lines and inside the fresh water pump. If there is a dip in the drain hose from the sink, that needs to be emptied or antifreeze added to it as well.