Runaway Yanmar

Apex

.
Jun 19, 2013
1,222
C&C 30 Elk Rapids
Like a small child, it started to "run away" but then came to its own senses, came back and seems to be operating normally with no ill effects... what gives?

Okay so details:
Yanmar YSM-8R, water inlet on Port, heel angle 15-20°?
I was sailing single handed, sailing into Muskegon channel, pointing on Starboard tack. I decided it may be a good idea to have the engine at the ready, so that after entering the outer arms I can simply roll in the headsail and head upwind, click into forward gear and into the channel. After starting the engine and assuring water was flowing out the exhaust properly, I continued sailing along merrily. Several minutes passed when engine revs started climbing, I quickly blamed the dog, (Bear has earned a reputation for laying on the throttle) then confirmed the throttle was in idle position. Immediately revs continued to climb quickly along with some sheen on the water behind the boat from the exhaust and a HUUGE plume of white smoke. The engine stop cable had no effect...$H&%!@
I quickly set about getting the boat flattened to secure the headsail and allow the main to flog while finding a shoe or suitable air block in effort to stop this runaway before imminent self-destruction. Shortly after turning upwind and furling the headsail, the engine returned to idle speed and the engine stop cable did indeed stop the engine. ?huh?
I had to restart the engine to get through the channel, and everything seemed FINE. Afterwards I checked oil level: EXACTLY on the line....Startup results are the same, and everything appears to operate just fine.

...wayward child, an engine that doesn't like to sail and wants more attention, mixing elbow? :O)
provinence of the engine is unknown, and I must admit attention to the little engine that can is limited to annual impeller and lubricant changes. Our usage is very limited, approx 5 gallons of diesel in a given year, preferring the white dacron genny to the iron variety.
 
Jan 4, 2006
7,577
Hunter 310 West Vancouver, B.C.
Several minutes passed when engine revs started climbing
Was the engine in gear or neutral at this point ?

I'll put in a guess that one or more rings are intermitantly passing oil which the engine is then burning as fuel.
 
Jul 5, 2007
196
Kenner Privateer 26 schooner, Carlyle Illinois
I have a YSE 8, and had the same thing happen. It's caused by the engine somehow sucking up motor oil from the oil pan and running wild .

Your lucky it stopped so soon.
 
Jan 30, 2012
1,150
Nor'Sea 27 "Kiwanda" Portland/ Anacortes
Most likely maybe the crankcase breather aspirating oil mist from crankcase case to air intake. Clean same so oil mist trap is operative.

Charles
 
Sep 15, 2009
6,244
S2 9.2a Fairhope Al
all of the above .....check the oil level ......and make sure your fuel pump is not leaking oil into the crankcase
 
Apr 22, 2011
971
Hunter 27 Pecan Grove, Oriental, NC
If oil was pulled into the combustion chamber and caused the runaway, you should have seen blue smoke. White smoke indicates unburned diesel fuel. How it got there in large quantities and why it only happened when the boat was heeled is puzzling. I've only seen large amounts of white smoke while starting a very cold engine.
 
Dec 29, 2008
806
Treworgy 65' LOA Custom Steel Pilothouse Staysail Ketch St. Croix, Virgin Islands
We've experienced that our engine revs just before it quits due to fuel starvation, such as air in the fuel line. I agree with your instincts to Chevy the oil level, which would tend to obviate both oil getting past the rings and a leak between the fuel pump and oil. It also does not explain the fuel shutoff not working - which supports the oil burning scenario. I think if have a very heavy bag or cloth ready to throw over the air intake in case it happens again...
 
Sep 15, 2009
6,244
S2 9.2a Fairhope Al
get a very dense sponge and cover the air intake and don't use your hand to close it off without the sponge in your hand ...these things have very strong suction in runaway mode
 
Jun 28, 2016
334
Hunter 23.5 Paupack, PA
For what it's worth, I found this on another forum post submitted by a seemingly angry individual. The italics below is NOT from me, but might be relevant. You can probably skip over the rant to get to the meat in the last sentence.

The poster states his engine runs away for no apparent reason. If people replying to this post think it (OP's problem) could be related to lubrication oil being driven through the rings causing such a perfect combustion that: a highly precision built; one cylinder; high compression; 3200rpm revving; with very delicate timing; and a precise injection system; 8hp diesel engine could run out of control: then you all need to TAKE ONE APART.
Seriously, the bloke with the Comby motor had five run-down cylinders, pushing away a very tired 6 cylinder motor. He attributes his claim that diesel engines run out of control because of an oil leak through the rings!
DIESEL ENGINES/MOTORS DO NOT RUN ON THEIR OWN LUBRICATION OIL. FACT!
Take one apart. No, take 3 apart, like I have, and get them to start, AND RUN.

I know what the problem with posting on a sailing forum is: you people change the oil in your engines as much as you change your underwear.
If you can't read between these lines then I will help.
The rack and pinion fuel distributor is within the oil sump (connected to the fuel pump). I you do not keep this item religiously clean( through changing the oil), it foul, and cause irratic behaviour with your motor.


Ok, Hardblower here...
I am not an engine mechanic (you'll see why), so I'm not sure if my story has any bearing, but my engine runaway problem occurred in a twin cylinder two-stroke JetSki that I later found out was caused by a lean mixture condition. This occurred while it was out of the water on the hose with no engine load (ie, neutral). I had just rebuilt the carburetors and just wanted to see if it would start. It didn't, so I helped it with a spray of fuel into carbs (but not starting fluid - never use starting fluid in a two-stroker, you might explode the crankcase). Once the revs climbed, I frantically pulled the lanyard, spark plug boots, and applied full choke, but she just kept the high revs until I squeezed the throttle. I believe now that probably richened up the mixture enough to regain control and allowed me to save it. Thank God.

So I did some digging. It turns out there is so little friction in these modern engines that even one with a spark-ignition that runs on gas mixed with oil can diesel out of control - just sipping fumes. The interesting part is that - they aren't sure exactly why the revs climb, but there are theories and anti-theories about exhaust gas scavenging. But this lean mixture runaway problem is not uncommon on two-strokers. I've heard other stories like it involving various air leaks in the intake system (under carburetors and manifolds, quite honestly), and probably why all mechanics keep plenty of rags to shove into carburetors on first start after a rebuild.

Now, I know your diesel and my SI 2-stroker are WORLDS apart, but what comes to mind is, could a lean condition exhibit this in a diesel and perhaps be caused by whatever the sailboat-hater above says it is?

G
 
Jan 30, 2012
1,150
Nor'Sea 27 "Kiwanda" Portland/ Anacortes
Apex

Tennis pressed into air intake? Assuming you can release the"air silencer" unit. Worked for me.

Charles
 

kito

.
Sep 13, 2012
2,011
1979 Hunter Cherubini 30 Clemmons
Decompression levers?
(to stop one, I mean)
That's what I have a question about. The ysm-8 has a decompression lever....like my ysm-12. The OP says the "engine stop" cable had no effect...? Was he talking about a fuel shutoff? You would think activating the decompression lever would stop a runaway since the exhaust valves are not seating which means no compression.
 
May 24, 2004
7,209
CC 30 South Florida
What would the risk of a runaway diesel engine exploding into fragments? We know a runaway diesel has a high probability of mechanical failure including bearings seizure from excessive RPM. It can also create a significant amount of heat which could fracture components. As a sure thing I would say it is not worth the risk to life and limb to try to save a diesel engine but it seems that daily people are able to stop runaway diesels without adverse consequences. I would consider the fact that auxiliary diesels are small and slow revving engines which will not generate a huge amount of energy to quickly self destroy. I would consider that if I could get to stop it within 15 or 30 seconds of the condition starting that it would be adequately safe to attempt to save the engine but after that I would not risk it. Anyone has a different or tested insight?
 

Apex

.
Jun 19, 2013
1,222
C&C 30 Elk Rapids
Thanks for the repolies to date: The next days conversations seemed to think the engine MAY be very tired, and that would allow crankcase oil to get into the combustion chamber. I am trying to figure out if I need to pull and service something immediately, this fall, or just go with it operating as it is, which seems "normal".
Ralph: Engine was in idle speed, transmission in neutral. I guessed the same, excess fuel coming into the cylinder somehow.

Okawbow: YES LUCKY

Charles: oil mist...hmmmm I'll have a closer look in the engine compartment for signs of combustible spewed. I did see the drip pan was clean, and oil level looked right. As far as tennis ball: Bear LOVES them, so trying to throw one in the air intake would likely result in him simply catching it before it got all the way installed. sticks are 2nd on his list; Rabbits, Squirrels, Cats, and Deer...not so much. Maybe I should keep one of those on board just in case? The air silencer opening is perfect for a tennis ball size, or whatever else is close at hand....easy to get to once the companionway steps are removed, and thoughts on how to stay out of the moving belts is processed.

Woodster: HOW would you check that. I could change the oil, looking for signs of contamination. The oil is black, I pump the old oil from filler cap, so never get all of the old out, thus never clear. of course I am not as familiar with Diesels as I should be.....time to read my Nigel Calder book?

GGordon: thanks for the previous post: rack and pinon fuel pump in the oil sump....The fuel pump being in the sump is very INTERESTING. As is exhaust gas scavenging, again something for somebody (me) with no knowledge to chew on for quite a while. BTW Dog exhaust is on par with his owner, no previous ill efffects of extra combustion were noted, heal angle not-withstanding.

Kloudie and Kito: I will need to verify the engine stop cable, but believe it to be fuel shut-off cable. I do also have a decompression lever below. I have used that before to start the engine manually. I have never tried to stop in the same manner...Any potential damage going that route? would that lead to rich mixture at next startup, or create other issues?
 

kito

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Sep 13, 2012
2,011
1979 Hunter Cherubini 30 Clemmons
My ysm-12 does not have a fuel shutoff cable.....never did. I have always used the decompression lever to stop it, I have no other way to. My decompression lever is in the cockpit next to the panel. I have seen many sailors with small diesels stop their engines using the decompression lever.
 
Jan 4, 2006
7,577
Hunter 310 West Vancouver, B.C.
Woodster: HOW would you check that. I could change the oil, looking for signs of contamination. The oil is black, I pump the old oil from filler cap, so never get all of the old out, thus never clear. of course I am not as familiar with Diesels as I should be.....time to read my Nigel Calder book?
Are you sure it's the filler cap or do you mean the dip stick insertion point ? Don't think you could get down to the oil sump from the filler cap.
 
Sep 15, 2009
6,244
S2 9.2a Fairhope Al
Woodster: HOW would you check that. I could change the oil, looking for signs of contamination. The oil is black, I pump the old oil from filler cap, so never get all of the old out, thus never clear.
pump from the dipstick hole and check how much oil you pump out after pumping it as dry as you can get it if you have more oil coming out than you need to refill then you may have fuel in the oil ,,,as for the fuel pump leaking you have to take it off the block and take it apart and see if the diaphragm has a pin hole leak in it ...if you are not well versed in this you may have to have a mechanical friend help you out
 
Jul 5, 2011
755
Oday 28 Madison, CT
My ysm-12 does not have a fuel shutoff cable.....never did. I have always used the decompression lever to stop it, I have no other way to. My decompression lever is in the cockpit next to the panel. I have seen many sailors with small diesels stop their engines using the decompression lever.
Are you sure that "decompression lever" is not actually shutting off the fuel? Not typical to stop a diesel with decompression.......