Help removing waste pump-out tube

[patrickkidd]

Hi there!

My black water tank is full (and slightly filling into the toilet leaving a stink) on my Catalina 30 but the stainless waste pump-out cap froze onto the stainless thru-deck housing. I have tried hammering with a large screwdriver but no luck.

I bought a new filler cap and housing but now am trying to get the 2" hose off the housing (new filler is 1.5"...nuts). It's totally stuck. I'm trying heat and dish soap but no dice, maybe since it's hard to get the dish soap down into the hose. I don't have a pipe wrench that big (yet).

Any ideas?!?

Thanks!

 

[centerline]

you will probably have to drill 2, 1/4inch holes in it, and then insert a phillips screwdriver in each hole.... then use a long screwdriver or bar between them for leverage to unscrew it.... but first, I would try a sharp hammer blow or two right in the center of the cap to try and jar the threads loose....

the cap looks like it is recessed pretty far into the fitting, which means it probably doesnt have an oring on it and is the most likely cause of the problem.... good lubricated orings prevent stuck caps

 

[patrickkidd]

Man, thanks so much for that idea. It worked and I only broke one drill bit in the process which I consider a win. Turns out the o-ring was on there. It's unbelievable how fused those threads were, and I had that cap off a couple of months ago!

 

[Stu Jackson]

Glad you were able to get it off. Put Lanocote on the threads next time.

 

[patrickkidd]

Lanocote - hadn't heard of it before now, thanks. I'll stick it on the diesel deck plate too.

Anyone know where to get ahold of a metal key for these things? West marine only seems to carry the cheap plastic ones.

 

[jssailem]

Anyone know where to get ahold of a metal key for these things? West marine only seems to carry the cheap plastic ones

Try the SBO online store.http://shop.sailboatowners.com/prod.php?13917

 

[Gunni]

It is an aluminum fitting and cap - not a particularly good material for corrosive waste tank contents. Try stainless steel.

 

[Peggie Hall HeadMistress]

I'm guessing that PO lost the cap and replaced it with one that doesn't fit. 1.5" is the standard size deck fitting...which means that the hose barb fits a 1.5" discharge hose, but the cap will be 1.25" even though it may be labeled 1.5". It gets worse if the deck fitting is OEM equipment on a boat built before about 1985, because the early fittings were 16 TPI (threads per inch), today they're all 11, and nobody sells a 16 any more...as I found out when I had to replace a cap. Only solution: replace the whole fitting.
I suspect you have one more problem to solve besides the pumpout fitting: That your tank is backing up into the toilet instead of overflowing out the vent is a VERY strong indication that the vent is blocked. So before using the toilet again, clean out the thru-hull--or, worse yet, the slit in the rail stanchion (this would be an excellent time to relocate the vent to a new thru-hull in the hull) and also the vent line connection to the tank too--both that end of the hose and the vent fitting on the tank. Warming the hose a little with a blow dryer makes it a lot easier to get off the fitting. Use a screwdriver blade, ice pick or whatever works to scrape out what you find at both ends. And finally, replace the joker valve in the toilet.

Peggie
"If you can't explain it to a six year old, you don't completely understand it yourself." --Albert Einstein

 

[patrickkidd]

Peggy, you know what's funny is that this waste deck fitting looks the same as the diesel deck fitting (granted, the diesel cap isn't as recessed when tight), yet the hose for the diesel is 1.5" and the waste hose looks like maybe 2" hose, at least from the outside diameter. From what I can see online, and from what you've said, there are no 1.5" waste deck fittings out there. So I wonder if this waste hose is just 1.5" with a large outside diameter? I don't see any marking on the hose. Just weighing my options before I cut the hose or continue trying to pry it off to replace the deck fitting.

Regarding the backfilling into the head, it only does it when the tank is full, and at that point I also can hear it slush up the vent tube when I pump (I really need to get around to installing that tank monitor I bought...so many projects).

P.S. I bought the new edition of your book for my Dad for his birthday and he thought it was absolutely brilliant! That says a lot considering he's impossible to shop for.

 

[Peggie Hall HeadMistress]

....this waste deck fitting looks the same as the diesel deck fitting (granted, the diesel cap isn't as recessed when tight), yet the hose for the diesel is 1.5" and the waste hose looks like maybe 2" hose, at least from the outside diameter.

Because hose wall thicknesses vary, it's always the INNER diameter that determines hose sizes. Because hoses need to fit onto the outside of fittings, fittings sizes are always determined by the OUTER diameter..

From what I can see online, and from what you've said, there are no 1.5" waste deck fittings out there

That's not what I said. It's just the opposite: all deck fill fittings--including waste--are nominally 1.5" because it's a 1.5" hose that has to go onto them. However, the inner diameter of the threaded part that the cap and pumpout fitting screws into will always be 1.25". Once upon a time, that part was also 1.5", but because that made the flange too wide for most modern side decks--which is where most deck fills are installed-- 1.25" became the standard size of the deck opening. However, the nominal fitting size is still 1.5' because that's the standard size for tank discharge hoses.

Peggie
"If you can't explain it to a six year old, you don't completely understand it yourself." --Albert Einstein

 

[Peggie Hall HeadMistress]

Regarding the backfilling into the head, it only does it when the tank is full, and at that point I also can hear it slush up the vent tube when I pump (I really need to get around to installing that tank monitor I bought...so many projects).

One more time: an overfull tank should only overflow out the vent. That waste is only "slushing up the vent tube" and backing up into the the toilet instead is a VERY strong indication that the vent is blocked and flushing the toilet has pressurized the tank...the contents back up into the toilet because they have nowhere else to go! Clearing the vent needs to be moved to the top of your project list and completed before using the toilet again! 'Cuz if you don't it's gonna result in a cleanup job you do not want to do!

Glad your dad liked my book! You might also find it helpful!

 

[patrickkidd]

That's not what I said.

Whoops, type-o on my end. I meant to say that the hose on my waste fitting looks like it's 2" hose, and I meant to say that I don't see any evidence anywhere that 2" waste fittings exist. Would I be right in assuming that this hose is probably just very thick? Just asking since I can't get it off...

Thanks again for the assertion on the vent. I wish I had a good through hull that I could hook a hose up to to flush it out. I'll get a copy of your book.

 

[Sefuller]

I have the same deck fills as you show in your picture, but mine all have plastic threaded caps. Might be something to look into to avoid the threads seizing.

 

[Peggie Hall HeadMistress]

Actually, color coded plastic caps are a good idea because they make it easy to tell what each fitting is without having to read what's embossed in the flange--black for waste, blue for water, red for fuel. Plastic caps are also cheaper to replace when you lose one overboard...which is easy to do with a waste cap because there can't be a chain on on that one.

 

[centerline]

Would I be right in assuming that this hose is probably just very thick? Just asking since I can't get it off...

yes... a 1.5unch hose that has 1/4" thick walls will measure 2"OD.... the walls may be slightly thicker, and the fitting may have increased the diameter of it slightly when it was slipped on... so it could easily measure 2.25" OD even though its 1.5" hose.....

to remove it, spray the end with wd40 and work a screwdriver or radiator hose hook in around the barbs.... the wd40 will lube it so you can work it off without too much effort...

 

[FastOlson]

We changed out all of our original deck fittings some years ago. The best I have found is the SS type with the swivel up SS tab. No special tool needed. You still should grease the threads each season.
Ours are from Skandvik. Here is a vendor link:
http://www.go2marine.com/product/209250F/scandvik-1-1-2-deck-fill-fittings-316-stainless-steel.html

As others have pointed out, your hose size is 1.5" (i.d.).
Time marches on and your old hoses have likely permeated. Replace them with new vinyl reinforced ones.
No more odor.
And, finally, keep listening to Peggy... she's the expert!

Loren

 

[Peggie Hall HeadMistress]

to remove it, spray the end with wd40 and work a screwdriver or radiator hose hook in around the barbs.... the wd40 will lube it so you can work it off without too much effort...

Using screwdriver or radiator hose hook can "dimple" the fitting, which will prevent a hose from sealing. Warming the hose a bit with a blow dryer (use a heat gun ONLY if you really know what you're doing with one 'cuz you don't want to damage the hose unless you're replacing it) will expand it enough to make it fairly easy to remove without any damage to a fitting. Warming the hose also makes it much easier to put onto a fitting. Use dishwashing liquid--or better yet, K-Y surgical jelly, which is also water soluble but a lot slipperier-- to lube the inside of the hose and outside of the fitting. Never use any any oil or grease that stays slippery.