In mast 'piece of crap' furling system

[Perfect Excuse]

I have tried everything suggestion in forums except to buy a new sail which I hesitate to do unless I am a guaranteed that it would solve the unfurling problems. Quite frankly, I think the design is crap and I am thinking that the only solution is to sell the GD boat and buy a power boat because that is to which this system reduces me. I am sick of sailing with a 1/4 main and jib. Is there anyone out there that has successfully stopped the main from binding when unfurling? It normally takes two or three hours to get the main out of the mast. I am personally challenging the designer of this crap system or someone from Hunter to provide a solution. Go ahead prove me wrong! Major problem is that the sail binds trying to get it out of the mast. I usually unfurl the main by hand pulling on the sail. Yes, we keep tension on the outhaul when furling and do so very slowly. Yes, I have tried, in desperation, spraying the sail with WD40 as a suggestion from the forum. Yes, I have experimented with different boom angles. Yes, I have taken all bend out of the mast. Yes, I keep tension on the furling line when applying tension to the outhaul.
Second, the furling jumps or misses the groves on the furling post.
I had just minor problem unfurling until I had the boat re-rigged supposedly to Hunter specs. I have had nothing but problems ever since. It is total BS to have to go up the mast and push the bulge back into the track then pull out another wrap and repeat. Tonight, I am crossing the Sea of Cortez likely under diesel power because a 1/4 main just won't do. Please help save a polite, mild mannered Canadian from creating random acts of power boating!

 

[seadaddler]

Sounds like big problems for sure and don't know where to start but you did say it all started when having it re rigged and why was that done.
Yes if and when a sail gets old or worn out or baggy it will cause jamming for sure and you said you add tension when furling in to the mast and that is when most problems cause jamming if you see the sail is not going in nice and flat than yes it will bunch up and will not unfurl out of the mast easy as suppose to.
I have 2007 H-36 and only had maybe 2 times jamming because my bad not furling into mast properly but love my inmast and never go any other way.
I am not expert and before wasting more $$$$ you need some one who knows inmast to see what is wrong either with the rigging setup or the sail and if the sail is wrinkling than it's not going in properly and is the boom down on the arch properly and the proper bend in the mast specks.
Wish I could help more and what year and model Hunter do you have and who made your sail UK or ??????.
Jumping do mean the continuous furling line jumps and that line maybe worn out but need a good sailmaker help you find the problem and let the sailmaker come to the boat and see what is going on.

 

[shemandr]

The good thing is that tonight you are crossing the Sea of Cortez.
I had jamming problems with my in mast furling. I had vertical battens which were a problem. I had them re-done at the suggestion of my sailmaker. That helped a lot. But after many cases of jamming I never regained confidence in the system. It seemed to me that the system just didn't roll up the sail evenly leaving too thick a roll in the middle which would jam in unfurling. Furling in a breeze left me as winded as any other task on the boat except for hauling someone up the mast. It also seem to me that the boat was all about the furling. The sail is cut flat so it will furl. I couldn't have the full roach main because of the furling. The boom kicker is set to help the furler. The topping lift? Set for the furler. Luff tension? The Furler. The furling system was soooooo needy.
Many others love their's. I feel like something must be different. I never could understand what. There was a post recently about adjustment of the furler tension. I never got to try that.

 

[woodster]

Sounds like whom ever did the rigging got something incorrect some time one has to go back to sq 1 and start over forgetting everything in the past you know like getting a divorce only what you left behind will not leave it alone

 

[Brezzin]

Just out of curiosity how's the main halyard.
If their is any slack in it,your sail will jam.

 

[seadaddler]

As said above could be anyone of many thinks maybe over looked and start over and check everything over,should not be having that much trouble but if something was done wrong than nothing but problems.
Most love Inmast but some times it can be a problem and than I would hate it if I was having problems that you are having and hope you find the fix and fall back in love with it like most of us do.
Nick

 

[Sailgunner]

Can only guess what might be the problem. We rarely have problems with our sail on our 410. Maybe the sail is stretched and needs replacing? Maybe halyard tension not right? Would it be possible send pics at different staging of furling or unfurling then main?

 

[Ralph Johnstone]

Not familiar with "Piece of Crap" furling systems as mine is a Selden.
Obvious question I know, but is the sail furling in the correct rotation for your make of mast ?

 

[shemandr]

This is the way mine was set up. We would leave the boom off to the port side a little to make the feed more fair. Still not easy and in a breeze a two person job. And often as not a source of marital discord. Occasionally frostiness in August.

 

[Scott B]

I had just minor problem unfurling until I had the boat re-rigged supposedly to Hunter specs. I have had nothing but problems ever since.

Most likely this is the problem? What specs did they use and it should be set up specifically for the Selden furling mast.

 

[charliegrau]

I had trouble with my system too...did all the stuff folks recommended...luff tension, halyard tension, etc. What seemed to make the most difference was two things. 1: I lubricated the gears on the furling winch on the mast, and cleaned all the blocks the sheet, outhaul, and furling lines went through. 2: bought a new sail. Works fine now. I can furl/unfurl without winches, and the boom angle and topping lift setting don't seem so critical. A couple of weeks ago I had a "new" issue come up...the outhaul came off the sheave in the end of the boom near the mast..that introduced a huge amount of friction and I couldn't get the sail furled until I discovered and resolved it.

 

[uncledom]

There are ALOT of things that will effect a successful furl but if a Selden in mast furling system is setup per the directions the sail should go in and out with little issue. I have a very thin triradial laminate main and it is silly how easy it furls and unfurls. It has no battens and the sail holds a beautiful shape. I had the the clew cut three inches shorter than the original, which makes adjustment a bit easier as the boom height position isn't as critical. The sail maker, Z Sails in Ct., also increased the size of the clew roller over the original Doyle. Halyard tension is important. If it is slack you will definetly have a bunching issue and if it is too tight it puts tension on the furling rod. You mention it became more of a problem after someone tuned the rig. I hate to sound this jaded but I would say from MY experiences that only one in five people that work on sailboats in any capacity are actually competent to do so. Find a local sailmaker that racers use and have him or her come take a look. They will tell you what the problem is if they are worth their salt and might even show you a trick or two to get that sail furled and unfurled. Good luck. BTW two one hundred pound neices can furl my main, one tailing the outhaul and one pulling the furling line and it only takes one to unfurl it.

 

[Rasselas36]

Sorry you are having such a difficult time with your in-mast furling. I have a 2004 H-36 and I have never experienced the problem you are having. Good luck finding a solution.

 

[JamesG161]

I have tried everything suggestion in forums except to buy a new sail which I hesitate to do unless I am a guaranteed that it would solve the unfurling problems.

Mine worked fine for my first year of my boat ownership. Z-Spars is the maker. I replaced/rebuilt the entire furling drum for $190 buy US-Spars ( USA Z-Spars ). I talked at length with their furling expert, but it still was way to sensitive.
Then I notice that the OEM 14 year old sails had lost their stiffness and was "baggy at the clew, thus putting excess cloth in the worst area of the furl, THE FOOT.

So just installed my new sail (14yrs of service was good enough). I went in like silk, no struggle or fuss. I out hauled it again and it unfurled. like silk. with an easy never seen before. My helpers, who helped drop the old sail, remarked how stiff then new fabric was and also the material was silky smooth and not like the "raised fiber" or rough feel on the retired sail.

If look at my profile picture, you can see how I made the old sail last 6 more months, by leaving the "excess stretch" out of the mast. You can see the "stretch in sail" near the clew fabric in the big picture.

I am now amazed at and understand why many love the in-mast furling.

My new Sail maker put it up and warranted the performance. Give me a private message if you want more tips I have learned.
Jim...

PS: The sail maker wouldn't guarantee the bearing, swivels, drum or rope, but after seeing that the were like new. He said to me, "You didn't buy this sail, you bought me and the sail! Your in mast furling will be fine now."
He helped me feel more secure about what may have been a gamble.
Jim...

 

[tkwhalen]

Have you adjusted the tension on the furling spindle in the mast as suggested in the Selden In mast Furling instructions ??

 

[PeterBld]

Slab resting is so KISS and reliable I wonder why any one would consider any alternative. Used on boats up to 61ft with no issues (benneteau 61, Dufour 52.5) last boat I sailed on, Auckland to Fiji , we had trouble with the In-mast. It finally completely jammed during a period of 50 -60kn. I had to go up the mast to the spreader. Spent an hour pulling the sail out of the slot. Dangerous and painful. Why not strip out the in mast and go for slab?

 

[captainpat]

I had the same problem with my '03 Hunter 44 and it took a couple of seasons of trying different fixes before I solved the problem. I assume that your sail is not blown out as this would cause furling/unfurling issues. Here are all the things I did knowing that you accomplished some of them based on your post.
1) Re-tuned the mast to be straight. It was rigged incorrectly by the PO (Selden and rigger recommendation)
2) Maintained outhaul tension when furling as per basic furling technique - with no improvement.
3) Applied waterproof grease to the lower bearing accessible by two round plastic plugs on port side of mast - this helped somewhat (Selden recommendation)
4) Applied dry lube to all sheaves and clutches. Also helped somewhat.
5) THE NUMBER 1 RESOLUTION!!!! For some reason, if you look at all Hunters with furling mains, the outhaul is attached to the boom way too close to the mast on an adjustable slide fitting on top of the boom. The overall result is that when you unfurl the sail it is being pulled down instead of back. This also effects the furling process. I moved that fitting further aft - by about 4 feet to roughly a foot beyond the point where the boom vang attaches. The problem went totally bye bye ever since. It is now a real pleasure to use the system.
6) Some other considerations: a) Everyone is aware of problems caused by a loose halyard, however it is possible to over-tighten the halyard which would cause furling issues. b) The extrusions can be tensioned and relaxed also. If they are too loose or tight it will cause furling issues. The Selden manual covers or you can contact Selden CS directly.

 

[uncledom]

5) THE NUMBER 1 RESOLUTION!!!! For some reason, if you look at all Hunters with furling mains, the outhaul is attached to the boom way too close to the mast on an adjustable slide fitting on top of the boom. The overall result is that when you unfurl the sail it is being pulled down instead of back. This also effects the furling process. I moved that fitting further aft - by about 4 feet to roughly a foot beyond the point where the boom vang attaches. The problem went totally bye bye ever since. It is now a real pleasure to use the system..

Captain Pat makes some good points, I'm not at the boat but I believe there is an easily adjustible stop in the top of the boom that can be moved to stop the clew car from coming too far forward.

 

[JamesG161]

5) THE NUMBER 1 RESOLUTION!!!! For some reason, if you look at all Hunters with furling mains, the outhaul is attached to the boom way too close to the mast on an adjustable slide fitting on top of the boom. The overall result is that when you unfurl the sail it is being pulled down instead of back. This also effects the furling process.

Right on target! I called it "Mechanical Advantage". In addition, the sail furls with actually less maximum furled diameter in the mast as it 'barber poles" from the top and the bottom ( not just from the top).
However, there is another way to do exactly the same, without the "Boom Car" adjustment. My sailmaker released the boom vang (kicker) tension to let it run free, then used the boom topping lift to reduce the angle of the boom to mast (in my sail's case, about 80°, or 10° upwards). The key angle depends on your mainsail's cut ( a variable most don't mention). My best description is to decide on your best angle by watching the main slowly furl. The foot of the sail should furl roughly parallel to the boom, with the correct boom angle. I marked the Halyard, of course.

Halyard Tension... (a tip from the spar maker)
There is a "sweet spot" for tension. Too tight and the upper swivel is in a bind and won't turn. Too loose and the swivel spins with the sail. It took me two tries to find that "sweet spot".

Leech...
As noted above, the correct boom angle and a slight wind in sail (counter clockwise furl.. starboard tac) is used to tighten the leech. Key here is to make sure as it furls that it doesn't twist at the top. At first signs of twist, unfurl and redo it. I slacken the main sheet a bit to help this, without too much wind in the sail.

Furling Bearings...
Mine are Stainless self lubricating, but they need a good water flushing 2 times a year to washout "spider dung" or whatever. If you lube them, use and dry lube that won't accumulate/attract dirt.

Furling Line...
Mine is new ( OEM suggests changing every 4 yrs but don't know why if the line is not swollen) and the old line did jump track when I tried too much force to pull out a jammed main.

Line Tensions when moving the Main...
I think the tension is only slight on outhaul when furling, the older the sail the more tension needed to give a tight wrap inside mast. Unfurling, just make sure the furling line tracks in the drum.

Once this is down pat, no more "piece of crap"! It sounds a bit complicated, but really, once you set your halyard tension and boom angle right, it is a easy routine.
Jim...

BTW: This info was not in MY data base when I first used mine. As the guru said... "Become "one" with the sail, and don't fight it!"

 

[JamesG161]

1) Re-tuned the mast to be straight. It was rigged incorrectly by the PO (Selden and rigger recommendation)

Mine is a B&R rig (I think most Hunter have this). I sent a eMail to Z-Spars to find their tuning. They said refer to the boat Designer. I looked in my Hunter owner's manual and there is a calculation that Hunter used, which is standard per mast height, for pre-bend.
One reason for pre-bend is to prevent mast moving in high winds and fatiguing the aluminum over time.
But...
I found more than the Pre bend calculations, to compensate for the head sail pull.

I would urge caution on a straight mast. The inside tube (foil) and furled sail should freely turn in you mast, but the foil is bent, when under full wind power, so it does flex.
Jim...