Forward hatch latches replacement (project complete photos included)

[allen-deckard]

We all have the same forward hatch well at least the non new models but I really hate the latches.

First of all I have to lay on my back in the bed to get to the latches. Second when they are closed and your sleeping in the bed they tend to take layers of skin off your head and back.

I don't worry about locking my boat no interest in doing so anyway.

The idea I have is using something like this.

Putting the latch in the center of the Forward hatch. I also know it's not as secure as the dog ears that come with the boat but I don't plan on going into a hurricane.

The problem I'm wondering if it would put enough pressure to seal the hatch from rain entering.

Or maybe one of them on both sides of the hatch to equal out the pressure?

Thing is I want the hatch to be able to be opened from the outside. anyway just lookin for opinions.

 

[Leeward Rail]

Photos of the existing latch setup for those of us with newer boats ?

 

[allen-deckard]

 

[Leeward Rail]

Oh yeah... wait. your post had me confused when you said:

We all have the same forward hatch well at least the non new models

The earlier boats had a hatch like this:

The "New Style" had 2 possible hatches depending on age. one is solid fiberglass with hatch dogs like those on the pop-top.


The later version had a "normal" bomar hatch:

 

[allen-deckard]

ok I "think" this is the one I'd go with or one like it. Not sure how it would install have to figure that out but don't see any impossible things stopping it. I kind of like the fact it can be unlatched from inside or out

http://greatlakesskipper.com/hydra-...-mi-62-8-nb-silver-stainless-steel-boat-latch

 

[Leeward Rail]

Yeah, sorry I realized that in your recent modifications thread you had photos of your boat showing that it's the same as mine.

The only difference between your hatch setup and mine, is that the hatch dogs on all my hatches use Star Wheel handles, like those with the CD replacements.

By making the bolts shorter, or putting spacers in, on my hatch and pop-top dogs, I lessened the pain of mashing your head/back into them.

That said, I wish our hatches could be opened from the outside.

From experience, I don't think a single latch would apply even enough pressure so that the seal won't drip.
I once left one side fairly loose and ended up with rain water dripping in.
There's a reason why both hatch styles use 2 latches/dogs.
In addition, any latch that you would use, would need to pull the hatch down tight or it would likely leak.

The first photo you posted might work, if the latch lever itself was bent on an angle, and the latch plate was angled.
That way, the further you turned the handle the more it would pull the hatch down.

The second style you posted may just work, depending on how the latch portion functions.
Does it lever the latch section move upwards and outwards (like a digging with a shovel) as the handle is pushed tight ?

I've wondered about using the same handle latches like those on the bomar hatch.

 

[allen-deckard]

seems like it would take a lot to make it leak. And I've had it leak before as well before I replaced the seal. With the large lip that goes around the entire hatch and since it's on a good angle still seems weird that it would leak even if only partially closed.

I'm going to keep looking there has to be a way. Honestly I don't use my hatch that much cause of the pain to get to it.

I'm not talking about camping just little afternoon trips. Getting in there laying on my back and messing with it is just a pain.

On a large boat I don't think it would be that bad simply cause you just walk up to it.

Anyway not the first project I've done out of the ordinary.

 

[Leeward Rail]

I agree. They are a PITB or PITH

Those latches may just work.
You'd need to see the second one in person to confirm if the latch portion actuates the right way.
If you do a web search for "hatch dog", you will see hatches in a similar size, with just a single latch, similar to the type you posted.

I still suspect that 2 would be needed, unless the hatch was reinforced to stop flexing.
As I say, the hatch on my boat leaked from just rain water, without both dogs being tight.
It may work with a single latch and thicker gasket. That way you would have to push/pull hard down on the hatch to compress the gasket and latch it.
Would be simple to test how much flex there is. Unfortunately my boat is in storage out in the country.

 

[allen-deckard]

I'm not trying to sway your replies one way or another but I went out there and I gotta say that there is like no flex in my hatch guess I never really looked at it that close. Don't know why but it's way thick in the center thinner on the edges but thinnest on the very edge is maybe half inch. I don't have long calipers to test the center but just goin by feel (so could be way off) the center could be as thick as 1.5 inches or so, Way thicker than I thought.

 

[Leeward Rail]

Way thicker than I thought.

Good to hear ! Yeah. You never look at anything in that much detail usually. Unless it's a cute redhead.
A single latch, with possibly a better gasket, may work.
It evidently works for the original C22 hatch.
It may have leaked for me simply because the latch that was tight was way over on the one corner.

Looking at an example..I wonder how the latch is built so that water can sit in the recessed handle and not leak down the shaft ? Some of them are plainly meant for interior hatches, but as the photo below shows, some work for deck usage.

I'd want something I could open from both sides. Some of the slam latches do that.
http://shop.sailboatowners.com/prod.php?8223
http://shop.sailboatowners.com/prod.php?8372

Some cheap locking method, if not included with the main latch design would be simple to add, for those that wanted it.

 

[Gene Neill]

You guys have entirely different hardware than what my Bomar hatch uses. I wanna help, but I got nothin'.

 

[Leeward Rail]

Gene: swap boats ?

How does your bomar latch ? I assume it's typical cam style dogs ?
Can you open it from the outside ?

 

[CaptDon01]

Gene: swap boats ?

How does your bomar latch ? I assume it's typical cam style dogs ?
Can you open it from the outside ?

Yes, and I believe the Bomar hatch is adaptable to the older "new design" C-22's. Was a GREAT change the factory made, but they aren't cheap. I thought they were an option originally, and then made standard equipment, I could be wrong....
Don

 

[allen-deckard]

leeward I agree with you and you really got me wondering how the waterproof works or if it even could since it's like a little cup that the water would sit in.

Then I started thinking. I've seen these flush mounted handles in boats all over where they use them not in hatches but for floor hatches. Basically doing the exact same thing as I'd want on the hatch but as a floor access I'd think those would have to be waterproof as well being in the floor.

See them a lot in fishing boats.

If you read the reviews (mixed good and bad) but they don't say the handle leaked, but the seal on the hatch (don't care about that) , I did read that the handles collect water and dirt and that it was hard to clean. Again I don't see that as an issue myself as long as it remains waterproof. I'm honestly not trying to push this to hard, I'm looking for issues and the reasons that it WONT work and if those reasons cant be overcome.

Thoughts?

edit

Did measurements today Slam latch will DEFINITALY NOT work. Hard to explain but it wont trust me. If you did get it to work the amount of modification to get it to work would not be worth it.

The compression latch I have no idea why it wouldn't work and am gonna give it a try I believe guess I'll be the guinea pig (wow I really didn't know how to spell that had to look it up hehe) again and let everyone know how it works.

Only modification will be a tapered part.

Only thing that sucks is it wont be able to be opened from inside which would be nice to be able to use from both sides but don't want a handle sticking up on the deck to trip on. In the end I still would rather open from deck than inside.

OH I also already replaced the stock hatch holder with one of the spring ones. WAY COOL and love it tons more than stock.
only neg is it sticks down in cabin a little when down but it's just spring so it don't hurt to hit so a non issue for me.

 

[Leeward Rail]

I'd love to see how the hatches that are designed to use that style of slam latch are configured.
Some of the locking versions use a tool (instead of a key) that fits in a socket down in the hollow.
Is there some type of drain hole ? What stops the water from running down the shaft ?

I'm hoping that the local store has something like it in stock so I can see one in person.
A call to the manufacturer would answer any questions.

 

[allen-deckard]

ordered 2 of these one for each corner. I think one in the middle would work fine. But I'm chicken. I'm afraid it wouldn't work with just one and then I got a hole in the middle of the hatch. I still think 1 would work like I said but this is the safer route add to that gives 2 handles to hold onto.

http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B014VAWCP0?psc=1&redirect=true&ref_=oh_aui_detailpage_o00_s00

I'll let ya know how it goes.

 

[Leeward Rail]

Those should work fine. Especially so since it's a compression latch that pulls the hatch tight.
Only drawback is that you would need to go on deck to open it.
Looking forward to the results.

 

[allen-deckard]

well I think of it this way.

The only time(or nearly only) that I need to open the hatch from the inside is when I'm camping and then it's typically open for the night.

What I like about opening it from the outside is especially during my afternoon trips can just go forward and pull hatch up spring keeps it in place and be able to get some air threw the boat.

Anyway I'm thinking might use the same tie downs that the originals use. Anyway we'll see nervous since you cant even get the stupid hatches anymore so we'll see.

BUT

Your right opening from both sides would be better but I'll take what I can get.

 

[Leeward Rail]

Yes, and I believe the Bomar hatch is adaptable to the older "new design" C-22's. Was a GREAT change the factory made, but they aren't cheap. I thought they were an option originally, and then made standard equipment, I could be wrong....
Don

From what I understand the deck is different so the bomar won't fit.
CD and I believe SBO, sell custom smoked acrylic hatches made by Cruising Concepts that are a direct replacement for the solid fiberglass ones used on the early "new style" boats. They use the original hardware and don't open from the outside.
Price is similar to the Bomar.. aka pricey

How does the bomar open from outside ?
Those handles simply go through round holes in the glass and have a cam action to pull the hatch shut ?

 

[Leeward Rail]

nervous since you cant even get the stupid hatches anymore

Yup. I'd "measure 15 times then cut once"
Another issue would be getting the correct spacer for the hatch thickness.
I saw a few companies listing slightly different versions for various thicknesses.