I am updating my 34 hunter head and I have some trouble making the best decision on raw water or fresh water and electric or manual. My installer leans towards manual because if you loose power you can still operate! My friend suggests that raw water will ultimately not smell good. I have a 15 gal holding tank and two fresh water tanks a 50 gallon and a 25 gallon. I would ultimately prefer a manual with a fresh water system. I purchased a jabsco manual head and was getting ready to install it when all these options came about. Suggestions here please,Thank ou
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If you are on a lake I would go with the raw water. If in salt water go with the fresh, Electric heads are nice.
the new raritan fresh water head is supposed to be the thing ...i plumbed my (not fresh water) to the head sink drain and have a valve so i can cut off the sea water and pour fresh water in the sink and let it go into the head.....or use sea water with the seacock open on the drain and plugging the sink bottom with a sink stopper at the suggestion of Peggy Hall
Fresh Water
I have electric sea era and what I do is I have spray hose like at the home sink
and when using the head I just spray fresh water in for flushing and did have a Raritan PHII which is a very good manual head the best head ever and same thing just use the sprayer to add fresh water.
Using fresh water makes everything better less smell and the big thing is less
salt water building up in your system,salt water builds up in the line going to your holding tank and keeps the head working with less problems.
Nick
I have electric sea era and what I do is I have spray hose like at the home sink
and when using the head I just spray fresh water in for flushing and did have a Raritan PHII which is a very good manual head the best head ever and same thing just use the sprayer to add fresh water.
Using fresh water makes everything better less smell and the big thing is less
salt water building up in your system,salt water builds up in the line going to your holding tank and keeps the head working with less problems.
Nick
Same as Nick, use the shower for flush but we use it after the gallon jugs of fresh we carry are empty. Seawater stinks and I didn't want to connect my fresh water supply to the waste system when everything I needed was already right in front of me. The raritan II can't be beat. Jabsco requires constant maintenance. YMMV
Might look at composting-type toilet
An interesting option may be the C-Head. Advantages include:
- No holding tank
- No thru-hull
- No smell
Disadvantage:
- You have to toss the poop when the bucket is full
I've read a lot of good things about this composting-type system, and am planning to install it as soon as the weather warms up a bit.
An interesting option may be the C-Head. Advantages include:
- No holding tank
- No thru-hull
- No smell
Disadvantage:
- You have to toss the poop when the bucket is full
I've read a lot of good things about this composting-type system, and am planning to install it as soon as the weather warms up a bit.
Both
My head is hooked up to salt inlet with a shut off value that always closed
and that is the way it was suppose to be setup but I keep it closed and use fresh water always but if needed I could use salt water to flush and could use salt water some times if you wanted and than use fresh water to flush out the salt water and than switch back to fresh water or either could be used.
Nick
My head is hooked up to salt inlet with a shut off value that always closed
and that is the way it was suppose to be setup but I keep it closed and use fresh water always but if needed I could use salt water to flush and could use salt water some times if you wanted and than use fresh water to flush out the salt water and than switch back to fresh water or either could be used.
Nick
Heads
Our 1991 P42 still has the original forward and aft cabin Jabsco electric macerator toilets. They still work well, but recently I decided to tear into the aft unit to see whether a pump symptom was due to a failed part/parts. The PO had replaced both pumps some years before and both original units were still on board as spares. One had frozen up, but the other still worked. During the process I learned a few things.
1. These toilets have a flapper valve, not a joker valve. If you order a joker valve for your original toilet it will not fit.
2. Replacement parts for the old units are no longer available.
3. They do have an upgrade kit whereby a new motor and macerator along with a joker valve fits to the old bowl.
4. The old motor and macerator assembly is very robust and simple. If it still works keep it.
Our original system still remains in good working order. They do make considerable noise during the flushing cycle, albeit brief at that. Just make sure that you only flush toilet paper and body waste. It really does not like trying to chew up these new fangled wet wipes. Even the flushable ones. That is another story.
I prefer using sea water over potable. The only time the sea water smells is on the first flush after the toilets have not been used in awhile. Otherwise, there is no sea water odor.
Our 1991 P42 still has the original forward and aft cabin Jabsco electric macerator toilets. They still work well, but recently I decided to tear into the aft unit to see whether a pump symptom was due to a failed part/parts. The PO had replaced both pumps some years before and both original units were still on board as spares. One had frozen up, but the other still worked. During the process I learned a few things.
1. These toilets have a flapper valve, not a joker valve. If you order a joker valve for your original toilet it will not fit.
2. Replacement parts for the old units are no longer available.
3. They do have an upgrade kit whereby a new motor and macerator along with a joker valve fits to the old bowl.
4. The old motor and macerator assembly is very robust and simple. If it still works keep it.
Our original system still remains in good working order. They do make considerable noise during the flushing cycle, albeit brief at that. Just make sure that you only flush toilet paper and body waste. It really does not like trying to chew up these new fangled wet wipes. Even the flushable ones. That is another story.
I prefer using sea water over potable. The only time the sea water smells is on the first flush after the toilets have not been used in awhile. Otherwise, there is no sea water odor.
hunter healer;1190200 My installer leans towards manual because if you loose power you can still operate! [/QUOTE said:
No one has yet to advise putting deodorant of some type into the holding tank following a pump out style holding tank. Also it is the hose from the head to the holding tank that can stink. Use some white vinegar flushed down the head so it can sit in the line. It sure helps a lot to keep the stink down.
Poop system alternatives
There has been some good debate here.
As for my two pence, I am not a fan of composting heads for two primary reasons:
1. You have to carry around both your poop and the sawdust/peatmoss/whatever around with you all the time. Neither one is ejectable at sea (without some awkwardness). On a small boat I'd rather have a fireplace if I have to carry wood pellets and stuff. It'd be more beneficial to the boat & crew.
2. Emptying the toilet is an indelicate affair and ultimately, despite the pro-compost lobby's eco-responsibility arguments, no good for anyone. It's just garbage-- and for heaven's sake don't tell the staff what's in the bag you're carrying up the dock or you may find yourself evicted from the marina! At least pumping out at a proper dockside facility enables the sewage to be processed into usable byproducts-- and relegates the responsibility for said process to a party with more money and better lawyers.
I have a friend who carries a quart mixing cup into the toilet room for flushing. He's the one who taught me about saltwater gremlins in the lines (most of my experience has been on boats kept in rivers). So I am plumbing my toilet with a line from the freshwater tank, through a one-way valve, up to the loop and down to a valve that lets it into the seawater-flush line. By opening this valve and shutting off the seacock I can use my (copious) freshwater supply for the head. Best of all I can still flush the toilet when the boat is out of the water-- which is a great benefit to liveaboards!
I don't get Peggy Hall's idea of stopping up the sink when the seawater line is open. Do I understand that right? I do like the idea of flushing using the shower-- it's simple and easy. But if you are altering the plumbing on the boat for a more elegant solution, I think mine is a good idea. The loop is important because the backwater will fall down towards the tank and check valve. A level line would give the check valve some opportunity to fail someday, which would muck up the freshwater supply.
* * *
There has been some good debate here.
As for my two pence, I am not a fan of composting heads for two primary reasons:
1. You have to carry around both your poop and the sawdust/peatmoss/whatever around with you all the time. Neither one is ejectable at sea (without some awkwardness). On a small boat I'd rather have a fireplace if I have to carry wood pellets and stuff. It'd be more beneficial to the boat & crew.
2. Emptying the toilet is an indelicate affair and ultimately, despite the pro-compost lobby's eco-responsibility arguments, no good for anyone. It's just garbage-- and for heaven's sake don't tell the staff what's in the bag you're carrying up the dock or you may find yourself evicted from the marina! At least pumping out at a proper dockside facility enables the sewage to be processed into usable byproducts-- and relegates the responsibility for said process to a party with more money and better lawyers.
I have a friend who carries a quart mixing cup into the toilet room for flushing. He's the one who taught me about saltwater gremlins in the lines (most of my experience has been on boats kept in rivers). So I am plumbing my toilet with a line from the freshwater tank, through a one-way valve, up to the loop and down to a valve that lets it into the seawater-flush line. By opening this valve and shutting off the seacock I can use my (copious) freshwater supply for the head. Best of all I can still flush the toilet when the boat is out of the water-- which is a great benefit to liveaboards!
I don't get Peggy Hall's idea of stopping up the sink when the seawater line is open. Do I understand that right? I do like the idea of flushing using the shower-- it's simple and easy. But if you are altering the plumbing on the boat for a more elegant solution, I think mine is a good idea. The loop is important because the backwater will fall down towards the tank and check valve. A level line would give the check valve some opportunity to fail someday, which would muck up the freshwater supply.
* * *
Vinegar may be the very cheapest solution, Dave.
I have it from Ms Hall that the best (and only) thing to put into the holding tank is nitrate, which effectively turns it all into dried dog poop on the lawn, which doesn't stink because it's dried-out in the air. Anything alcohol-based, such as cleaners and so on sold at the stores, will increase to the smell and in fact add new smells to the tank. (Anyone but me ever notice the incredible investment of shelf space for toilet chemicals at West Marine?
)Air is the best additive of all. Adding charcoal filters to the vent lines is false logic-- they will cut down on airflow when airflow is exactly what you want. A holding tank provided with two vents, at opposite sides of the boat, enabling air to flow through the tank, is the very best prevention of smell in there. I made mine 3/4", which Ms Hall says is a little small, and put shiny stainless-steel through-hulls in the hull stripe (like single Buick portholes). I provided them with rigid PVC tubes to the top corners of the tank, one on each side. The PVC prevents them from sagging, which would create a low spot that will collect water and sludge and therefore stink. Ms Hall says sailboats can benefit from this most of all because the wind is usually to one side of you-- thus blowing into the vent on that side, through the tank and off to leeward where you couldn't smell it if it stunk.
Of course this only works if you actually sail your boat-- so this is another reason to get out of the marina and go sailing! :dance:
WADR, wrong, wrong, wrong.
It's bad for the pump on the head itself if water isn't allowed to enter the pump and just for outflow.
NEVER tap into a freshwater tank for manual head use, a check valve will do NOTHING and doing so will subject you to possibly harmful bacteria.
This has been repeated so often on Peggie's forum, but it could easily have been missed.
The T into the head sink drain is way easier.
Here's a few links that may help you understand. These are all my "Head 101" topics
Head Odors 101 http://c34.org/bbs/index.php/topic,5755.0.html
Head Odors 101.1 - "T" into sink drain: http://c34.org/bbs/index.php/topic,5755.msg38216.html#msg38216
Head Leaks and Vented Loops 101.1.a http://c34.org/bbs/index.php/topic,5865.0.html
Head Odors 101.2 The Difference between KO & Odorlos (scroll up to Reply #2) http://forums.catalina.sailboatowners.com/showthread.php?p=890493&highlight=odorlos
Head Odors 101.3 Flix of New Vent http://c34.org/bbs/index.php/topic,8185.msg57288.html#msg57288
Head Hoses 101 http://c34.org/bbs/index.php/topic,5738.0.html
Head Pumps 101 Why just pouring water into the bowl is NOT a good idea http://c34.org/bbs/index.php/topic,5865.msg40604.html#msg40604
Healer...
I eliminated the overboard discharge and raw water intake when I installed a new holding tank in my H34.
Attached are pix of the small Todd tank I put into the starboard v-berth cubby to feed the head. The PVC pipe is the tank fill. The vent hose is zip-tied to it. It's easy to dump a gallon jug or two of freshwater into it and you don't get the "biological" decay odor from using raw water.
Also, get yourself a "Nozall" fitting for your pumpout deck fitting for a safe way to "offload" the holding tank contents.
I eliminated the overboard discharge and raw water intake when I installed a new holding tank in my H34.
Attached are pix of the small Todd tank I put into the starboard v-berth cubby to feed the head. The PVC pipe is the tank fill. The vent hose is zip-tied to it. It's easy to dump a gallon jug or two of freshwater into it and you don't get the "biological" decay odor from using raw water.
Also, get yourself a "Nozall" fitting for your pumpout deck fitting for a safe way to "offload" the holding tank contents.
Attachments
Thank you all for your direction with the marine head refit. I went with a jabsco electric fresh water head. Its being installed as we speak. I let you know how it turned and post some photos. tx, Hunter Healer
If you talk to composting toilet owners you will find that the number one reason people go with a composting toilet is because they don't stink. They are overall no more or less work than a holding tank system, in general, as far as daily usage goes. But with respect to odor control, in the case of composting toilets, all the solutions offered in this thread are not necessary. So in a nutshell, it really comes down to personal priorities. Which is worse, having to look at poop occasionally or having to smell it all the time.
We have 8 years on our SeaEra electric head and it has continued to be worry free. Just changed the joker last year for the first time. Ours is the raw water model and it is noiser than the fresh water version.
I have an MSD porta-potty plumbed through a macerator for overboard discharge. I don't have to smell *or* look at the poop, and the installation was much less work than a conventional holding tank system. And, the effective capacity is significantly *greater* than what I had on my Catalina 30 with a 15 gallon holding tank.