Slack shrouds on leeward side?

[solodare]

Just had my first sail this weekend and had some concerns about really slack shrouds leeward. Is that a normal thing? I was told the rigging was new (and it looks new for what ever thats worth here) But was not told to expect any kind of break in or settling. I noticed first some slack, like I said on the leeward side which I thought... "Okay I should keep an eye on that" thinking maybe its normal. But it became more and more and eventually while becalmed it was still there and not just on one side. I did the best I could to tighten ever thing down. It is all pretty sold now but a couple of my turnbuckles are ran almost all the way in.
Any advice?

venture 22 btw

 

[justsomeguy]

Hmm, you've got turnbuckles?

Someone did replace some standing rigging, it seems. I wonder if your mast-supporting post in the cabin was also changed out...The Mac owners manual does state when you're sailing hard, there will be some slack in your lee shrouds, but I'm not a big fan of that advice.

But, if you're out of threads on your turnbuckles, and you still find too much slack, you could either place some material under the mast step, or re-rig.

Good luck.

 

[Justin_NSA]

Should not be any slack. Any new stranded cable is going to 'stretch' as the strands get pulled tighter together.

 

[DougM]

You may have to start over again in tensioning the rig. . In attempting to take up the slack on the side that was to leeward when you noticed it, you could have pulled the mast over that way, hence the lack of further adjustment in the turnbuckle. I would suggest running a tape measure up on the main halyard, and measuring from the masthead to both sides to determine if the measurement is the same. If not, loosen the short side shroud turnbuckle a couple of turns, and take up a couple of turns on the long side sequentially until the measurements are equal. Then tension each side a further few turns. Remember that the equal number of threads showing inside each turnbuckle may be meaningless.

This is really only an initial adjustment. Finally, go sail, and look for slack in the shrouds on both port and starboard. Take up the slack slightly on each side in sequence.
Until you are satisfied that the tension is equal. You may never get all of it with a bendy mast.

If it turns out that you still have no ability to tighten further, you may have to have a rigger shorten the shroud and installing a new end.

 

[kloudie1]

Sounds like the mast foot may be compressing the cabin top or post? Do check all the chainplates to be sure that they aren't being pulled upward by the shroud strain.
A spacer under the mast step may get ya some more adjustment if straight and chainplates are solid.

 

[solodare]

You may have to start over again in tensioning the rig. . In attempting to take up the slack on the side that was to leeward when you noticed it, you could have pulled the mast over that way,

DougM, I actually did not adjust until we were becalmed, And in fact believe it or not I adjusted the windward side. Don't ask me how I knew to do that first. I did a lot of things that day that I probably shouldn't have known how to do and yet some how they came out of my brain.... I'm still trying to piece them all together

kloudie1 ,
I did check the chain plates last night though just visually, Gave them a tug. they seem fine but didnt have time to raise the mast and check to see if they are moving when there is more of a load on them. the old bedding/sealant is beat so looking at that is not very conclusive.

justsomeguy,
The MSP looks to be the original,
You knocking my turnbuckles buddy??:naughty: NO REALLY?? Should I start changing those out? I think I heard one other person say something about turnbuckles being bad for shrouds....I think it was Roger Macgregor actually......MAybe in a promo video for the Mac19.

I will step the mast tonight and check some more for give around the mast support and play in the chain plates.

Thanks guys for the help. Looks like its time to go meet the Riggers. What do you take Riggers for bribery.... doughnuts just do not seem respectful. Maybe BBQ!!!! :dance:

 

[justsomeguy]

snip-
justsomeguy,
The MSP looks to be the original,
You knocking my turnbuckles buddy??:naughty: NO REALLY?? Should I start changing those out? I think I heard one other person say something about turnbuckles being bad for shrouds....I think it was Roger Macgregor actually......MAybe in a promo video for the Mac19.

I will step the mast tonight and check some more for give around the mast support and play in the chain plates.

Thanks guys for the help. Looks like its time to go meet the Riggers. What do you take Riggers for bribery.... doughnuts just do not seem respectful. Maybe BBQ!!!! :dance:

Not knocking your turnbuckles, just noting that they're not original equipment on these Macs. They'll work.

 

[solodare]

Thanks for the help. I was joking of course about the knocking part. I really appreciate the input.

 

[justsomeguy]

 

[WayneH]

Slack shrouds shouldn't be an issue. My leeward shrouds have always slacked a bit on the 16 footer, the 21 footer but maybe not so much on the 37 footer.

BUT!!! Your description of them getting slacker and slacker concerns me, especially if you have cotter keys on your turnbuckles. The keys prevent the turnbuckles from turning and loosening up. I know, first grade stuff but you said you were a newbie.

I missed the part about how many stays you have. Some V-22's had 6 stays but some do not have a back stay. The side stays on those also provide the support that a back stay would. If you have 6 stays then you just have issues with your side stays. Check them from top to bottom. How is the connection on the mast? Do the spreader ends have visible wear? Are your wire to fitting connections still good? Look at both sides of the chainplates for a shift in position vertically. This one is bad.

Three other places to look at before and after stepping the mast: The mast step on top of the deck should not be sitting in a depression. The compression post inside the cabin should not be sitting in a depression. The top of the compression post should not be sunk into the overhead. All three of these are BAD!!! But they are fixable with money.

Hopefully, this all just fear mongering and your stays are just finally seated. And the problem with that is the stays were mismeasured and fabricated a bit too long.

But if you have them tight now and you don't see any of the things I mentioned above, GO SAILING!!!

 

[MrBill_FLL]

I'm also thinking the mast step is compressing. Assuming the shroud lengths matched the old ones.

is there a post on a M22 ?

 

[solodare]

When you say "cotter" i dont think thats what I have. Maybe your talking about the same thing. its a pin but its more of a ring that keeps the pin from coming out. I dont know if that matters just wanted to be clear. Ill post some pics to night when I step.

The V-22, or at least mine has 6 stays. Ill have to wait till i get off work to check the other connections.

 

[solodare]

Dont know about the M-22 but the V-22 def does have a post. Its the same hull so I would assume its design is the same. Old chair leg looking post.LOL

 

[Joe]

When you say "cotter" i dont think thats what I have. Maybe your talking about the same thing. its a pin but its more of a ring that keeps the pin from coming out. I dont know if that matters just wanted to be clear. Ill post some pics to night when I step.

The V-22, or at least mine has 6 stays. Ill have to wait till i get off work to check the other connections.

cotter rings .... as opposed to cotter pins. same function.

Check the compression post under the deck... it supports the mast.. keeps the deck from warping under rig pressure.

 

[Ron20324]

...Check the compression post under the deck... it supports the mast.. keeps the deck from warping under rig pressure.

Is the deck a "sandwich" (balsa, whatever), which could allow deflection under load?

 

[WayneH]

Cotter keys in a turnbuckle

Here is the best picture I have of my turnbuckles. I was adjusting the tension on my stays so the starboard stay is complete with it's cotter keys installed and the tips bent to prevent snagging skin or sails. The aft lower is not complete and the cotter keys are not installed yet. Mostly, what you can see of them is the shiny knobs inside the turnbuckles near the end of the threads.

 

[justsomeguy]

Is the deck a "sandwich" (balsa, whatever), which could allow deflection under load?

There should be plywood sandwiched betwixt the inner and outer fiberglass layups.

Unless...

 

[solodare]

So, I step last night and I didnt see any compression in the mast. But heres the thing... Its on the trailer... that seems like it would give the boat a more solid set if that makes sense. I did not notice any compression on deck or in the cabin under the support post.
The chain plates all look solid as well. The rigging all looks fine at the top of the mast. Now that Im posting i just remember that I over looked the spreaders...:bang:
here are some pics of everything just in case you guys see something i do not.
should be in this order. Mast, Bow, Port, Starboard, Stern

 

[solodare]

okay... maybe this time BTW!! all the stays are tight now. I dont know if I mention that.... again thats in my back yard now not on water. I adjust when we were out in the water but for some reason it seems tighter on the trailer. Not by much. But before I adjusted on the water it was scary loose. (The shrouds that is.)

 

[solodare]

More of the rigging. if you look behind the mast in the starboard side pics, at the house in the background. About the same height as the roof peak. You can see the bend in the mast I spoke of in a diffrent post. I think this comes from the mast being supported (in travel) at the bow or pulpit area instead of the original mast bracket. I dont like that at all but no one else seems to think its a big deal. Im currently making a replacment mast crutch to fit on the mast bracket. Maybe it will bend back..LOL I dont know. I just want to sail and this boat really only has to last about 5 years then I have plans to by something bigger. HEY!!!! I just relized!! I have a 5 year Plan!!!! My Mom would be so proud of me!!