Lack Of a Traveller

[Don Guillette]

Alnims: The only function of the traveler is to control angle of attack. Here's one example of how you can use it. Assume you're closehauled and you're hit by a sudden gust of wind and the boat heels over. You could use your mainsheet to bring the boat back on it's feet but the mainsheet is also used to control twist and draft position and you may not want to mess with those element. The easiest way to bring the boat back on it's feet is to drop the traveler down (change the angle of attack) to reduce the heel. As soon as the gust passes you'd return the traveler to its original position and sail merrily on your way because the original shape of the sail has not changed. Next time you're out sailing give it a try and see if it works for you.

What's the sailing weather like this time of the year in Japan??

 

[ALNims]

Alnims: The only function of the traveler is to control angle of attack. Here's one example of how you can use it. Assume you're closehauled and you're hit by a sudden gust of wind and the boat heels over. You could use your mainsheet to bring the boat back on it's feet but the mainsheet is also used to control twist and draft position and you may not want to mess with those element. The easiest way to bring the boat back on it's feet is to drop the traveler down (change the angle of attack) to reduce the heel. As soon as the gust passes you'd return the traveler to its original position and sail merrily on your way because the original shape of the sail has not changed. Next time you're out sailing give it a try and see if it works for you.

What's the sailing weather like this time of the year in Japan??

Don,
I have experienced your scenario. I had a large gust of wind and the force of the gust started to force me to turn to Port. I corrected by turning hard to Starboard until we got the boat righted and back under control. This happened to me one one more time. I did the same maneuver and it worked again. I did not have the traveler. I have copied your recommendation and will go out and try it with my new traveler. Today is sunny and cold (11 degrees C) with light winds and gusts. We sometimes have this time of year and occasional rain.
Thank you for the tip.
Andrew

 

[weinie]

Don,
While racing, I was taught that easing the mainsheet (as opposed to dropping the traveler) will reduce the tension on the forestay on a fractional rig. This would have the effect of creating sag in the forestay giving you a jib with a larger draft...which is precisely what you don't want to have when you want to reduce heel.

 

[Don Guillette]

Alnims; Let us know how the use of the traveler works as opposed to turning the boat in a gust. I think you'll find using the traveler easier and you don't have to change course.

Weinie: I really don't have a lot of experience with fractional rigs. I'll bet I've only sailed on less than 5.

 

[ALNims]

Alnims; Let us know how the use of the traveler works as opposed to turning the boat in a gust. I think you'll find using the traveler easier and you don't have to change course.

Weinie: I really don't have a lot of experience with fractional rigs. I'll bet I've only sailed on less than 5.

Don,
My hope exactly. The other thing I don't like about not having a traveler is the boom slamming port to starboard or vice versa during gusts or even tacking. I suspect that with a traveler I will have more control making it safer to operate the main sail.
Andrew

 

[Scott T-Bird]

Do you really think ...

Don,
While racing, I was taught that easing the mainsheet (as opposed to dropping the traveler) will reduce the tension on the forestay on a fractional rig. This would have the effect of creating sag in the forestay giving you a jib with a larger draft...which is precisely what you don't want to have when you want to reduce heel.

that easing the leech will have any affect on the standing rigging, particularly the back-stay? I'm skeptical ... (maybe with a B & R rig and/or dingy-one designs with no backstay).

 

[Jackdaw]

that easing the leech will have any affect on the standing rigging, particularly the back-stay? I'm skeptical ... (maybe with a B & R rig and/or dingy-one designs with no backstay).

It's true, but only too a degree.

On a typical fractional boat with swept spreaders, the biggest effect on forestay tension (BY FAR) is the tension on the V1 shrouds. On our boats we have 4 pre-set tensions that we turn up or down to based on predicted wind speed. It stiffens the rig and reduces forestay sag.

Backstay is next, but depending on the fraction (3/4, 7/8, or 9/10) the tension mostly just bends the mast.

Same true with a sheeted on main. The tension on the leech pulls the mast back and tensions the forestay just to a degree.

But most of the time this does not factor because when going upwind in a breeze, you have the vang on so you can vang sheet when you ease the mainsheet. Thus the boom does not rise and the leech tensions stays constant.

 

[Jackdaw]

Weinie: I really don't have a lot of experience with fractional rigs. I'll bet I've only sailed on less than 5.

Don, If you ever get to Minneapolis or the Apostle Islands, give a shout, we'll go for a big-time fractional sail!

 

[weinie]

It's true, but only too a degree.

On a typical fractional boat with swept spreaders, the biggest effect on forestay tension (BY FAR) is the tension on the V1 shrouds. On our boats we have 4 pre-set tensions that we turn up or down to based on predicted wind speed. It stiffens the rig and reduces forestay sag.

Backstay is next, but depending on the fraction (3/4, 7/8, or 9/10) the tension mostly just bends the mast.

Same true with a sheeted on main. The tension on the leech pulls the mast back and tensions the forestay just to a degree.

But most of the time this does not factor because when going upwind in a breeze, you have the vang on so you can vang sheet when you ease the mainsheet. Thus the boom does not rise and the leech tensions stays constant.

good point about the vang pretty much negating that.

 

[Don Guillette]

Jackdaw: Thank you for the invite -- does it ever warm up in your neck of the woods??!!

 

[Doug4bass]

I'm a cruiser....and I use the traveler all of the time. In my mind it is a must...especially for cabin top mid-boom sheeting ,which I have, which inherently has a lot of slop. With any pressure on the main at all the closest I can trim the boom is about 20dgs off center with the car amidship. For any upwind work at all I think a traveler is essential. Imho. Btw.. single line traveler control is yummy.

 

[Meriachee]

Jackdaw: Thank you for the invite -- does it ever warm up in your neck of the woods??!!

Don,
It's ok, boats don't experience windchill. :stirthepot:

 

[justsomeguy]

Don,
It's ok, boats don't experience windchill. :stirthepot:

Don's a Tucsonan, which means his blood's thinned out from our >100 F. Summers.

I know I've been wussified.

 

[Don Guillette]

Justsomeguy: Do you belong to the Tucson Sailing Club? I've conducted a couple of mini sail trim seminars for them and the Phoenix Sailing Club and I'd like to do some more. I planned on attending TSC's last club meeting but it was raining cat's & dogs's so I passed on it.

 

[Scott T-Bird]

This pretty much relates to the original post ...

But most of the time this does not factor because when going upwind in a breeze, you have the vang on so you can vang sheet when you ease the mainsheet. Thus the boom does not rise and the leech tensions stays constant.

The traveler is basically a redundant sail control (at least on these boats) and Beneteau acknowledges there is no need for it. It could have easily been installed on the arch. I'm pretty certain that it isn't an expensive item, so there was no economic reason to eliminate it.

It doesn't look like they economized on the vang. So if the vang controls twist on all points of sail, the mainsheet is used exclusively for angle of attack. The two-block arrangement on the arch seems to have no problem centering the boom for upwind positioning. I think the robust vang that they installed is the reason for eliminating the traveler. It's a cruising boat, and it's built for cruising desires. There is no harm in that. The market will certainly tell Beneteau how they feel about it.

It's amusing how us old farts get so annoyed when confronted with advancing technology!

"Where's my traveler!!! ... I can't sail without my traveler!!!" :cussing:

 

[Jackdaw]

The traveler is basically a redundant sail control (at least on these boats) and Beneteau acknowledges there is no need for it. It could have easily been installed on the arch. I'm pretty certain that it isn't an expensive item, so there was no economic reason to eliminate it.

It doesn't look like they economized on the vang. So if the vang controls twist on all points of sail, the mainsheet is used exclusively for angle of attack. The two-block arrangement on the arch seems to have no problem centering the boom for upwind positioning. I think the robust vang that they installed is the reason for eliminating the traveler. It's a cruising boat, and it's built for cruising desires. There is no harm in that. The market will certainly tell Beneteau how they feel about it.

It's amusing how us old farts get so annoyed when confronted with advancing technology!

"Where's my traveler!!! ... I can't sail without my traveler!!!" :cussing:

That's pretty much the deal.

 

[Jackdaw]

Jackdaw: Thank you for the invite -- does it ever warm up in your neck of the woods??!!

Yes for a few weeks. All the ice even melts!

 

[weinie]

That's pretty much the deal.

Except in light air when you need to twist off the top but also need the boom near the center.

 

[Scott T-Bird]

So, then ...

Except in light air when you need to twist off the top but also need the boom near the center.

You just use that rigid vang to push the boom skyward. Better than that old soft vang, which can't push the boom skyward when the air is too light to do the job. (better than the topping lift as well ... another redundant feature with a rigid vang)

 

[weinie]

You just use that rigid vang to push the boom skyward. Better than that old soft vang, which can't push the boom skyward when the air is too light to do the job. (better than the topping lift as well ... another redundant feature with a rigid vang)

But the rigid vang on these boats, (at least the ones I've seen) aren't truly rigid. They are just aluminum tubes with a spring that's just about strong enough to keep the boom off the deck at the mooring. Any tension on the main sheet is going to easily pull the boom downwards.