Vestas 11th Hour Racing in collision.

[shemandr]

If there is any underpinning for having such small lights on vessels it would have to be to not ruin mariner's night vision. And maybe in carrying a tradition from the past in which there were lanterns used for lighting and then when electricity came into vessels there wasn't enough power to have bright lighting. But as far as I know there isn't any rule against lighting your vessel like a Christmas tree. That was the case for a fishing boat off Block Island one dark night which I think you could see from space. He never knew I was in the vicinity.

 

[Daveinet]

I was hoping you would have retracted your post, as I see it as a bad example of proper seamanship.

I'm not sure where you get the "in reality can only be seen for about 50 feet".

A small dot is impossible to judge distance, its a just a simple fact of life

If you almost ran over a swimmer because you could not see past the jib will get you on the losing end of a major lawsuit for the widow and family. Making a boat/car/bicycle move without being able to see and avoid a collision is a lack of human nature. "Not being able to see" is NO excuse for hitting anyone/anything and changing their life for the worst for the rest of their lives. What an asinine attitude.

I'm confused. You complain, but you do not offer a solution.

"Sailing single handed impractical to keep a lookout." It is basic seamanship. Good God, man, what a selfish attitude.

Again, If you are on the windward side of the boat, please explain how one can see through the sails on a boat that is heeled over. A 15 ft boat needs to have you sitting on the rail, when a gust hits.

""I've often thought of installing a camera on the front of the boat, just to see around the head sail. It would not be difficult to just have a rule that all head sails have a window, or have a camera requirement. Cameras these days are pretty cheap"... yeah, sure, the world should change just to suit people who haven't the common sense to slow down or keep watch as require by law for safe boating.

Again, offer a real solution. My boat was barely doing 3 knots at the time. It sailed like a pig, and was easily blown over.

I have a 2-dollar sign on the wall that displays a better attitude: "Don't go faster than your guardian angel can fly". I only hope the guy in the water has a guardian angle on lookout. This post may get deleted, but I think it has to be said, just so others don't take your opinions seriously.

again, I'm looking for practical ways to solve a problem, I can only hope everyone here would do the same.

 

[Daveinet]

If there is any underpinning for having such small lights on vessels it would have to be to not ruin mariner's night vision. And maybe in carrying a tradition from the past in which there were lanterns used for lighting and then when electricity came into vessels there wasn't enough power to have bright lighting. But as far as I know there isn't any rule against lighting your vessel like a Christmas tree. That was the case for a fishing boat off Block Island one dark night which I think you could see from space. He never knew I was in the vicinity.

I'm not thinking bright lighting, but rather large surface areas of light, some of which shines down on the water for perspective. Its just too hard to judge distance with a single small dot, as there is nothing to compare the size dot to. I've thought about adding light strips underneath the bumper rail. That would reflect off the boat, and provide some surface area. Maybe a spring project.

 

[LloydB]

from vobo on: 19 January 2018
"With less than 50 miles to go to the finish line of Leg 4, skipper David Witt and Team Sun Hung Kai/Scallywag should make history as the first Hong Kong flagged vessel to win a leg of the Volvo Ocean Race.Sun Hung Kai/Scallywag still has a 50-mile jump on Vestas 11th Hour Racing as Leg 4 draws to a close.
Victory will be all the sweeter as this is the first time the race has finished in Hong Kong. Sun Hung Kai/Scallywag is expected to arrive in Hong Kong between 1630 and 1830 UTC.
On Wednesday, Scallywag had a lead of 40 miles on second-placed Vestas 11th Hour Racing when it entered Stealth Mode, which hid its position from rivals and from fans. Stealth Mode is an option the teams can deploy to cloak their location from view, hiding their position from the other race teams.

In a nail-biting turn of events, just as Scallywag reappeared on the tracker the two podium challengers Vestas 11th Hour Racing and team AkzoNobel deployed Stealth Mode.

Today, with less than 50 miles to the finish, Sun Hung Kai/Scallywag has a lead of around 50 miles."
Read more at http://www.ybw.com/boat-events/volvo-ocean-race/volvo-ocean-race-2017-46814#PjiiE521VuBiprrr.99

 

[agprice22]

I was hoping you would have retracted your post, as I see it as a bad example of proper seamanship.

I'm not sure where you get the "in reality can only be seen for about 50 feet".
If you almost ran over a swimmer because you could not see past the jib will get you on the losing end of a major lawsuit for the widow and family. Making a boat/car/bicycle move without being able to see and avoid a collision is a lack of human nature. "Not being able to see" is NO excuse for hitting anyone/anything and changing their life for the worst for the rest of their lives. What an asinine attitude.

"Sailing single handed impractical to keep a lookout." It is basic seamanship. Good God, man, what a selfish attitude.

""I've often thought of installing a camera on the front of the boat, just to see around the head sail. It would not be difficult to just have a rule that all head sails have a window, or have a camera requirement. Cameras these days are pretty cheap"... yeah, sure, the world should change just to suit people who haven't the common sense to slow down or keep watch as require by law for safe boating.

I have a 2-dollar sign on the wall that displays a better attitude: "Don't go faster than your guardian angel can fly". I only hope the guy in the water has a guardian angle on lookout. This post may get deleted, but I think it has to be said, just so others don't take your opinions seriously.

Words like asinine are not needed or part of a valid argument.
I think the Poster in this case is being honest about the difficult situations that can occur with lighting and large headsails. Both situations are real for many people. That makes him neither selfish nor asinine. I did NOT get that the Poster was blaming others or suggesting they should change to accommodate him. I think his point was that technology has advanced and could be significant in aiding safety. In fact, he is highlighting that not being able to see is a problem, not an excuse.

 

[Michael Davis]

not being able to see is a problem, not an excuse.

I've always found "deck sweepers" limit visibility to much. New Genoa just arrived with a luff cut a foot shorter so I can see better.
Pictures of Scallywag at the finish line show nav lights highly visible ( masthead tri-light about 100ft. in the air)
I can see where a single white light on a fishboat ( reported as kerosene lanterns when used) would be hard to see with a city of 9,000,000,000 as a backdrop.
Doubt if we will get much more information until investigation is complete.

 

[Franklin]

The city is on the northern end of the island. The southern side is villages. Not totally dark but not what you are thinking. At 30 miles out, there was no light polution, but fact is, even though running lights can be seen a long ways off, they are small and require constant looking for them. The stern light can be mistaken for a star at sea.

I have cruised single handed for 5 years and have traveled 30k miles in that time. I did sleep a lot at night when deep out to sea away from normal traffic. I started using 2 Lucy lights behind the dodger pointed at my sails the last year of going singlehanded. I felt much better about that than just the masthead light. When I was not on the lookout, I made sure others could see me.

I remember one time 2 days west of Bora Bora when I got a call on the VHF. They wanted to know where I was going. I could barely see their running lights but I could see them once I was looking for them (and AIS already told me where to look) but they were about 4 miles away. They on the other hand saw me very well - like I smacked them in the face. I knew they were 4 miles out due to AIS but I only had receiving AIS at the time so they didn't have an info on me.

I started using the lights due to the ships at sea being lit up so much at night and I would see them 10+ miles away. I thought it was wise for a single handler. I also liked how it gave the cockpit a bit of background light (I sleep in the cockpit) and lit up the entire deck and sails, plus it didn't use house bank power (solar cells in the lights).

Now I sail with crew but so far I still use the lights at night. I have gotten used to them and really like plus I know there are fishermen out there that are not lit up and their plan is to get out of my way, so I like to make it easy for them to see me. I can still see the running lights of boats and that is all I think I would see with the lights off anyway. It gets pretty dark out there.

Now of course, I am in a different world than most of you and I am not sure what I will be doing when I get to a world where people usually follow the rules or even know what the rules are.

 

[Michael Davis]

where people usually follow the rules

Even here it's the ones that don't follow the rules that create the majority of the problems.

 

[Davidasailor26]

Fishermen are used to dealing with ships. They are lit up pretty good, some like a football field, and do make quite a bit noise and they normally travel at 12 knots near land and most at sea too (I've seen a few reach 18 knots at sea but that is it).

Sadly it appears there was a fatal collision between another fishing vessel and a cargo ship in the same area just a day later. https://www.maritime-executive.com/article/good-samaritan-killed-during-fishing-boat-rescue

 

[Davidasailor26]

The Vestas skipper has made some comments to Yachting World, available at http://www.yachtingworld.com/races/...port-into-racing-in-high-traffic-areas-113046.

He says "As we approached the fishing vessel that we had identified on AIS, the on-deck crew confirmed visual contact – the fishing vessel was well lit – and we headed up to starboard to keep clear. I was watching AIS and communicating the range and bearing to the crew. The crew confirmed we were crossing the fishing vessel when, before the anticipated cross, there was an unexpected collision."

I'm guessing the unexpected collision was with a less well lit or AIS enabled vessel?

Also “The team has now been informed that investigations by the Hong Kong and mainland China authorities will be closed shortly with no further action to be taken.”