Vestas 11th Hour Racing in collision.

[Franklin]

Yes, that is what the harbor looks like, but on the southern side of the islands, which is where the fishing villages are, it is a different story...a whole different world. Those on the southern side go out offshore to get fish to live off of and to sell in the village. It is pretty clear to me that the race committee had never been to those villages. The young modern people leave the villages for life in the big city. It is only the old people who live there and go fishing. The villages are dying off one by one due to this, but I think you can understand how the fishermen do not know anything about colregs and such.

The world is full of people who fish from small pangas that all they have on board is a small outboard, fuel, some water in jugs, and fishing gear. No lights, no radio, no radar, no AIS, not even cover from the very hot sun. My father-in-law used to travel from one island group to the next in a 17' panga fishing here in the South Pacific and that was just a few years ago. His brother still fishes off the same boat offshore. I buy fish from him all the time. I know both of them have never heard of 'colregs'. The only thing they care about is putting food on the table for the family. Things are a lot different outside of the 1st world countries.

Ex: I noticed my favorite dog was missing from the In-laws home. Just a few months ago when he was a puppy I used to bring him food scraps because he was starving (could not fight for his food against the older dogs and hogs). He and I bonded. My wife told me yesterday that they ate him. His neck got injured so they used that as an excuse to make him dinner. As my wife said 'we gotta eat'.

In my opinion, the race committee really screwed up on this one. They do not understand the people of the world outside their little group.

 

[Michael Davis]

ou can assume that those commercials are in a designated ship traffic lane and have a local pilot at the helm.

That's true Gunni but the Hong Kong shipping lanes don't start until about 10 miles from the finish line for the race and all the boats stayed outside of them. The B.C. and Washington State ferries run through the Gulf and San Juan Islands. Every accident I know about involving them has been the ferries fault. Probably some I've not heard about though.

 

[Scott T-Bird]

In my opinion, the race committee really screwed up on this one. They do not understand the people of the world outside their little group.

Are you saying that Volvo is wrong to go to Hong Kong because the undeveloped world is in too close proximity? Where do the limits get defined, then? The collision was 30 miles away from the finish line. If you are saying that a finish line doesn't belong in a crowded harbor at night, I'd agree. But the collision apparently happened pretty far out at sea. This physical collision seems to be as much a metaphorical argument about cultures colliding.

Sad as it is, going to sea in small boats that are unequipped for safety would seem to indicate that tragedies at sea must be relatively commonplace. I'm not sure that I would find any greater significance between this collision and any other tragedy, simply because it involved a racing sailboat. I don't necessarily agree that recklessness can be assigned to Vestas or the Volvo organization simply because of the appearance that a moneyed class of people, in what could be described as a frivolous pursuit, collided with working class mariners. It's easy to have sympathy for the subsistence-level working class, but does that mean that all other pursuits must take a wide path around them? If so, where are the limits? We certainly don't place that restriction on commerce.

 

[Will Gilmore]

In my opinion, the race committee really screwed up on this one. They do not understand the people of the world outside their little group.

You make a good argument. I have never been to that part of the world but I don't want to assume that because they were a Chinese fishing boat that they don't know anything either. It is, at this point, we who don't know anything. That is my ultimate point.
There are reasonable assumptions that can be made about various aspects of this whole affair, but they are assumptions.
I am in favor of speculation. It is part of the discovery process and education for next time. Blame, based on assumptions, is worse than unhelpful.
Maybe the race committee should have known better, but I certainly can't picture myself, in their position, having known better.
Unfortunately, everytime I want to use the retrospectrometer to get a clear view of possible events, there is a line waiting to use it. By the time I get my turn, the even has already happened.

- Will (Dragonfly)

 

[Franklin]

I am saying they should not be anywhere near SE Asia. Quiet sailboats traveling at high speeds kind of clashes with ALL cultures in SE Asia. Us cruisers know not to travel at night near land (50+ nm) in SE Asia.

 

[Michael Davis]

I am saying they should not be anywhere near SE Asia. Quiet sailboats traveling at high speeds kind of clashes with ALL cultures in SE Asia. Us cruisers know not to travel at night near land (50+ nm) in SE Asia.

That's interesting Franklin. How would you solve the problem ? Set a speed limit at night? Stop all marine traffic 'til daylight? Modern high speed merchant ships are very quiet too, and I'm sure would not realise they had hit someone . Have you heard of ships hitting small boats in that area or would they just be "lost at sea?"

 

[Franklin]

That's interesting Franklin. How would you solve the problem ? Set a speed limit at night? Stop all marine traffic 'til daylight? Modern high speed merchant ships are very quiet too, and I'm sure would not realise they had hit someone . Have you heard of ships hitting small boats in that area or would they just be "lost at sea?"

Fishermen are used to dealing with ships. They are lit up pretty good, some like a football field, and do make quite a bit noise and they normally travel at 12 knots near land and most at sea too (I've seen a few reach 18 knots at sea but that is it). Quiet high speed sailboats with little bitty running lights are not going to catch their attention and they sure are not going to be expecting them to be traveling 20+ knots. Seriously, ask any experienced cruiser about SE Asia (Philippines, Indonesia, Malaysia, China, Vietnam,...etc) and you will hear them say not to travel at night and when approaching the country, that last night you better be on the lookout and they are only traveling at 5-6 knots.

Yes, being at sea is dangerous for everybody so if you go to sea, you are taking a risk, but I personally think the race committee should have been smarter than that. Keep your fantastic toys away from SE Asia.

 

[Will Gilmore]

I am saying they should not be anywhere near SE Asia. Quiet sailboats traveling at high speeds kind of clashes with ALL cultures in SE Asia. Us cruisers know not to travel at night near land (50+ nm) in SE Asia.

If that is indeed what you are saying then China is to blame as much as anyone. The People's Sports organization has been partners in this race from the beginning and a 14 day celebration around the finish of this leg has been planned, advertised and going on in Hong Kong. The citizens of Southeast Asia are at the mercy of their own government more than any race committee.
http://m.yp.scmp.com/event/108133/volvo-ocean-race-festival

- Will (Dragonfly)

 

[cb32863]

I think there are a few people here who should send their resume to the VOR and then they can run the show next time. How about a couple of laps around some man made lake in the middle of no where USA?

 

[Gunni]

See comment #14. If you don’t carefully proscribe your course and sweep it for hazards then you are running the equivalent of an outlaw street race. In Vestas case after running up on a charted reef last time and sinking a fishing boat and getting a guy killed this time I don’t what would work - a black flag or a healthy fine.

 

[cb32863]

See comment #14. If you don’t carefully proscribe your course and sweep it for hazards then you are running the equivalent of an outlaw street race. In Vestas case after running up on a charted reef last time and sinking a fishing boat and getting a guy killed this time I don’t what would work - a black flag or a healthy fine.

Different races, different crew. Each incident is not related to the other. Just happened to be the same boat, coincidence. Research. Sure, outlaw street race, that's what it is.

Oh and don't worry, I will stay off your lawn too...

 

[Scott T-Bird]

See comment #14. If you don’t carefully proscribe your course and sweep it for hazards then you are running the equivalent of an outlaw street race. In Vestas case after running up on a charted reef last time and sinking a fishing boat and getting a guy killed this time I don’t what would work - a black flag or a healthy fine.

I get your point, but it is far less practical to sweep a course for around-the-world ocean races. Like Will says, it is far easier to look in retrospect at these circumstances than to predict outcomes in advance. Innocent people get killed under an infinite number of circumstances. The oceans are rather lawless, if you think about it. Container ships drop their containers in the ocean with impunity, causing life-threatening hazards. It also seems that commercial ships intentionally and/or unintentionally ignore all kinds of protocols and conventions in their pursuit of profitability and schedules, and have left death and destruction in their wake. Does the world order pass an inordinate amount of new regulations and restrictions? I don't think so. And if they do, how much gets ignored?
Vestas did the responsible thing and participated in the rescue effort. Besides they seem to have been about 30 miles out, so congestion wouldn't seem to be an issue. How many commercial vessels have simply left the scene, maybe even unknowlingly? I've read stories (and maybe they are just stories) where the fee for missing a scheduled Panama Canal crossing is reason enough for ships to just keep on steaming on, as if they never saw a "problem".
It seems reactive, to me, to pick on an incident in a sailboat race for condemnation. Perhaps changes are in order ... now that they regularly exceed 20 knots, maybe they should be lit up so they are more visible. Perhaps poverty should't really be an excuse for not being properly visible. Just because the culture says it's ok to be unprepared in regard to safety doesn't mean that local fishermen have an immunity to tragedy. I guess I don't really agree with Franklin that racing boats should be excluded from areas where they don't necessarily respect local tradition. It's a romantic notion that cruisers have about themselves that they never tread on local customs. The reality is that everybody makes an impact, whether we like to admit it or not.

 

[Hayden Watson]

Photo of Vestas damage.

 

[Michael Davis]

Photo of Vestas damage.

Says a lot about carbon-fibre as a building material. Approx. a million ft/lb. of energy in that collision.
Hong Kong has been experiencing sailboat races since the silk and tea trade.( China Clippers could get close to those speeds) And nowhere near the tech. to keep everyone safe.
Would love to read the accident report when it comes out.

 

[agprice22]

27,557lb. Empty

That is light! At 65 ft... that is lighter than a 35 ft cruiser.

 

[AlastairLC]

Latest word:
“The organisers of the Volvo Ocean Race have confirmed that team Vestas 11th Hour Racing won’t be taking part in Leg 5 of the event and in the inshore racing in Hong Kong and Guangzhou, China.
Read more at http://www.ybw.com/boat-events/volvo-ocean-race/volvo-ocean-race-2017-46814#G2FPmh1rqQqL4r3F.99”

 

[shemandr]

That is light! At 65 ft... that is lighter than a 35 ft cruiser.

I still don't know how to judge how light those boats are built. Yes I see the displacement but I would need to look at what other 65 foot ocean racing boats displace for context. And I would probably take out ballast since that doesn't directly contribute to the hull strength.
One thing we know is that Vestas got the best of that collision.
BTW my H356 displaced less than 1/2 that. And displacement versus length probably goes up nearly exponentially rather than linearly. Uh oh! Math. I'm outta here.

 

[Daveinet]

I see two issue that have always bothered me. First is the regulations that only require minimal lighting on boats at night. In our cars, we have very bright headlights, and we actually have an expectation of clear road directly in front of us, with most potential hazards being marked. In a boat, you only have black water, with no idea what might be floating randomly in your path. Other boats are only required to have a tiny spec of light, that theoretically can be seen for 2 miles, but in reality can only be seen for about 50 feet. With so little light, it is difficult to judge distance, as there is no reference surrounding the other boat. This problem should be simple to solve. In this modern age of LEDs, dramatically increasing lighting requirements for boats is not costly and could significantly improve safety.
The second issue is being able to see around the leeward side of the head sail. I almost ran into a swimmer I could not see because they were blocked by the jib. Sailing single handed, it would be impractical to keep a look out. I've often thought of installing a camera on the front of the boat, just to see around the head sail. It would not be difficult to just have a rule that all head sails have a window, or have a camera requirement. Cameras these days are pretty cheap.

 

[Ron20324]

...boats are only required to have a tiny spec of light, that theoretically can be seen for 2 miles, but in reality can only be seen for about 50 feet. ...
The second issue is being able to see around the leeward side of the head sail. I almost ran into a swimmer I could not see because they were blocked by the jib.... Sailing single handed, it would be impractical to keep a look out.

"I've often thought of installing a camera on the front of the boat, just to see around the head sail. It would not be difficult to just have a rule that all head sails have a window, or have a camera requirement. Cameras these days are pretty cheap."

I was hoping you would have retracted your post, as I see it as a bad example of proper seamanship.

I'm not sure where you get the "in reality can only be seen for about 50 feet".
If you almost ran over a swimmer because you could not see past the jib will get you on the losing end of a major lawsuit for the widow and family. Making a boat/car/bicycle move without being able to see and avoid a collision is a lack of human nature. "Not being able to see" is NO excuse for hitting anyone/anything and changing their life for the worst for the rest of their lives.

"Sailing single handed impractical to keep a lookout." It is basic seamanship.

I have a 2-dollar sign on the wall that displays a better attitude: "Don't go faster than your guardian angel can fly". I only hope the guy in the water has a guardian angle on lookout. This post may get deleted, but I think it has to be said.

 

[Stu Jackson]

his problem should be simple to solve. In this modern age of LEDs, dramatically increasing lighting requirements for boats is not costly and could significantly improve safety.

99% of the "bad lighting" is from burned out bulbs and frosted lenses. Most day sailors don't check their light, cuz they sail in the, uhm, day. Then when it gets dark on them, they're non-conforming. LED lights have helped a lot by reducing the former, and perhaps the latter by having skippers swap out old fixtures. Bad lighting is laziness. 50 feet is nonsensical. Raising the jib and standing a proper lookout is the answer. Your post was chilling and fraught with errors.