You Can't Live on a Boat Anymore

[Rick486]

Cheer up. As we now know, this thread is being harvested over at NSA, studied by an intel analyst, and forwarded to the IRS. Think about that for a moment.

 

[Rick486]

I’d decided I was ready to go all in on living aboard but I don’t see any way at this point to do it. The boat’s document can only go to a physical street address so I talked to the local UPS Store two or three times and they said, “No problem, we have several boat people using our service.”

I went to sign up and read through the fine print on the documents they gave me to sign. It said that they were mail agents only and claiming the address as a residence or place of business constituted fraud as a federal crime. Those other boat people happily using their service are either leaving behind houses that they rent or leave empty or are more comfortable flirting with fraud punishable by jail time than I am.

I then called the motor vehicle department and said I would be traveling for a couple of years, didn’t plan to maintain an apartment while I was gone, and would rent another place when I returned. How could I maintain my residency? They were very clear, no way. Unless I have a legally binding document such as a deed, lease, or utility bill tying me to a specific physical address that is legal for occupancy, my driver’s license and car registration become void. No wiggle room. She went out of her way to say, “Staying with a friend doesn’t count.” Neither does paying thousands of dollars a year to the state in income taxes, local excise taxes on the boat, and being a registered voter.

I can sell the car; I’d planned to do that anyway. However, I can’t manage without a driver’s license. Enterprise car rental is my cruising lifeline since stores are far from the waterfront in most towns and there are always other errands to run. I also like to get away from the boat from time to time. Life without being able to legally drive is just not something I prepared to take on, even for cruising.

Fortunately, I haven’t given up my old address yet so I have some time to figure this out although I haven’t a clue yet what to do. The only option I can see at this point is to rent a very small apartment and just store my stuff in it. However, my cruising budget is slim enough that I then wouldn’t be able to afford to keep cruising so the whole question would then become moot.

Post 911 and in the third decade of the war on drugs (and just about everything else) society simply doesn’t have a place for people who aren’t willing to be pinned to the board like a bug; at least without being a lot more marginal than I’m willing to be.

It’s ironic that this all came up on the same day that I got much more positive news about continuing cruising. The report on my hip/spine joint X-ray came back and there is no sign of arthritis. That is very strange because my doctor (three doctors ago) saw it 15 years ago and all the problems have been in exactly the spot she identified. It’s good news because it means that there is nothing visibly degenerative going on as she predicted. Why the joint gets inflamed from time to time is now a mystery. The old X-ray was unfortunately lost during the three records transfers. I’ll find out more when I see the back doctor in August if I haven’t moved to a civilized country where paying taxes will let me drive a car by then.

Speaking of hips, I have had pain from my left hip which affects my ability to move around the boat and especially affects my ability to get in and out of the dinghy with the dogs. My PCP thinks it is something called trochanteric bursitis. It apparently doesn't show up on x rays. He injected some cortisone in the area but it really didn't do a lot insofar as quieting it down.

 

[Bob J.]

Roger,

You sure come up with some interesting stuff that really does get you to thinking the what ifs.

 

[Chris Patterson]

I sorta like the homeless shelter idea. Most unconventional, but..

 

[woodster]

i hope something comes out of this thread because i am facing this problem in the futer....as of now one thing i do know is...... everybody has to be some where..regards

woody

 

[Roger Long]

First of all I do not think that submitting a mail address as a residence constitutes criminal fraud by itself. One requisite of fraud is that the alleged victim must have suffered injury.

Quite right. As long as I am not actually living in another state and using the Maine address to get lower car insurance, benefits from Maine, etc., I'm not going to be found guilty of anything. The link dugout posted was very helpful. My intention is clearly to remain a state of Maine resident and eventually return.

However, the process of proving yourself innocent of this kind of thing can be very expensive and time consuming. Just ask the RI boaters who have been hassled by the state of Maine simply because their boats were seen in the state. One fellow was threatened with having his boat seized in RI if he could not show receipts documenting its location for every day of the ten years he had owned it. I've seen a copy of the letter. He clearly didn't own the state a dime in use tax and they were trying to panic him into paying tax he didn't owe.

As we now know, this thread is being harvested over at NSA, studied by an intel analyst, and forwarded to the IRS.

I'm not worried about the NSA but this is a serious point. Data collection and mining makes it almost impossible to slip through the cracks the way one could have done just a decade ago.

Look what Google turns up in 10 seconds if you type in the address I would be claiming as a residence.

 

[waternwaves]

we now have the motor voter laws

seems simple enough

Legally change your name to a hispanic sounding name,

Declare yourself a US resident with no permanent address at your county/parish/township auditors type office.

join the state Democratic party via email in the state you choose.

Specify any delivery address you like for your correspondence from the regional party caucus

watch your license and voters ID card arrive quickly.

 

[Captandrew]

It goes much further than a drivers license. Until last year I was a full time liveabord, with no permanent (read land based) address. It is not possible to register to vote if you do not have a physical address, you cannot have a bank account or any financial dealings without it and of course you now know that you cannot have a drivers license without a physical address. Along with all the boats (4) and vehicles (2) I have registered. I of course had all of these things but it was a little shady as I used my lady friends address. However it all came to a head when she moved to Canada and no longer had an address for me. Then the situation reversed as she no longer had a US address for her financial dealings, though she still has US Taxes to pay each year.
My solution if you can call it that was to buy a home. Though that of course was not the reason I bought it, but it did solve all the other problems.

And don't feel it is just Maine. All states are required too have most of those laws in place.

 

[justsomeguy]

Yep. Don't be broke.

Especially in America.

 

[Roger Long]

It goes much further than a drivers license.

Yes, and I think the title of the thread has held up to all the discussion. I think I am going to have to rent the smallest and cheapest room or apartment I can find.

 

[Calif. Ted]

How about a PO box in the town where your seasonal cottage is located ? My official mailing address for DMV, taxes etc has been a PO box for 30 years. Because the streets in my town do not meet federal standards (too narrow, some have huge trees growing in the middle, no need to cut a nice tree, just pave AROUND it) there is no home delivery and the box is free.I just get a post card every year to sign that I still own the property for renewal.
My house does have a physical address as does your cottage no doubt, even if it's #7 Fire Road 37N. Then maybe you can even have the PO forward to General Delivery wherever you are.

 

[Roger Long]

How about a PO box in the town where your seasonal cottage is located ?

That probably would work and is very similar to my situation, no mail delivery out at the lake. The major issue would be having to get a New York driver's license. I'm beginning to realize that mail is a separate issue from voting, bank accounts, etc. The UPS Store can be my agent for mail from an address anywhere in the country. It is a postal regulation that there has to be a physical address behind it. Since my name is on a deed, the cottage would count.

There are several reasons, other than the hassle of going to NY to get a driver's license, why I would like to remain a Maine resident. If I can find a room or apartment to rent cheaply enough, I may still do that.

All this reminds me of when I first moved to Woods Hole. I started out staying on a friend's boat in the Eel Pond. It was illegal to live on a boat there. When I went to rent a PO box, they said I had to have an address. I asked if a boat counted and they said it did. I couldn't name the friend's boat so I said, "Yacht Dulcimer". This is Dulcimer:

So, I've "lived" in a Hereshoff double paddle canoe. At least it had full headroom.

 

[l turn9]

Drivers License problem

Your problem with a drivers license should be solved by obtaining a international drivers license. Your local AAA should help with that. I would think that some boat friendly state
might allow you to register your boat there and use it as an address -- southern Calif has a lot of live aboards as does Fla. might try one of those. Good luck - I hope you can sail away like many of us only dream about.

LarryT

I’d decided I was ready to go all in on living aboard but I don’t see any way at this point to do it. The boat’s document can only go to a physical street address so I talked to the local UPS Store two or three times and they said, “No problem, we have several boat people using our service.”

I went to sign up and read through the fine print on the documents they gave me to sign. It said that they were mail agents only and claiming the address as a residence or place of business constituted fraud as a federal crime. Those other boat people happily using their service are either leaving behind houses that they rent or leave empty or are more comfortable flirting with fraud punishable by jail time than I am.

I then called the motor vehicle department and said I would be traveling for a couple of years, didn’t plan to maintain an apartment while I was gone, and would rent another place when I returned. How could I maintain my residency? They were very clear, no way. Unless I have a legally binding document such as a deed, lease, or utility bill tying me to a specific physical address that is legal for occupancy, my driver’s license and car registration become void. No wiggle room. She went out of her way to say, “Staying with a friend doesn’t count.” Neither does paying thousands of dollars a year to the state in income taxes, local excise taxes on the boat, and being a registered voter.

I can sell the car; I’d planned to do that anyway. However, I can’t manage without a driver’s license. Enterprise car rental is my cruising lifeline since stores are far from the waterfront in most towns and there are always other errands to run. I also like to get away from the boat from time to time. Life without being able to legally drive is just not something I prepared to take on, even for cruising.

Fortunately, I haven’t given up my old address yet so I have some time to figure this out although I haven’t a clue yet what to do. The only option I can see at this point is to rent a very small apartment and just store my stuff in it. However, my cruising budget is slim enough that I then wouldn’t be able to afford to keep cruising so the whole question would then become moot.

Post 911 and in the third decade of the war on drugs (and just about everything else) society simply doesn’t have a place for people who aren’t willing to be pinned to the board like a bug; at least without being a lot more marginal than I’m willing to be.

It’s ironic that this all came up on the same day that I got much more positive news about continuing cruising. The report on my hip/spine joint X-ray came back and there is no sign of arthritis. That is very strange because my doctor (three doctors ago) saw it 15 years ago and all the problems have been in exactly the spot she identified. It’s good news because it means that there is nothing visibly degenerative going on as she predicted. Why the joint gets inflamed from time to time is now a mystery. The old X-ray was unfortunately lost during the three records transfers. I’ll find out more when I see the back doctor in August if I haven’t moved to a civilized country where paying taxes will let me drive a car by then.

 

[zeehag]

i dont see how a document cannot go to a usps box. it used to be able to do that....
i use a store front as an address, and i have a marina to which i have mail come in mexico...so far--so good.... find alternatives to your little problems for a happier life--these are not insurmountable problems--heck--before there were these things called weblogs, there were folks doing this without the internet spot for whining. omg what we gonna so..wring hands plenty, panic for a few years then sell your boat at a great loss, as it is impossible to live on board due to inadequate planning by owner. oh yeah--i forgot--yer gonna die..best find alternatives....rodlmao...
there are ways to get what you want--you just need to be resourceful. i been doing this since 1990. never had a problem with mail delivery.
happy sails.

 

[jmce1587]

Many years ago I did the same thing as Woodster when living on my Allied 32. I used the marina physical address, the pier slip no as the unit number, ie, 5-15 for an exact street/location addresss and had all mail sent to a PO Box. My drivers licensel had the the physical address and there was no problem. Even had pizza deliveries to the "address". Good luck

 

[skeet]

I’d decided I was ready to go all in on living aboard but I don’t see any way at this point to do it. The boat’s document can only go to a physical street address so I talked to the local UPS Store two or three times and they said, “No problem, we have several boat people using our service.”

I went to sign up and read through the fine print on the documents they gave me to sign. It said that they were mail agents only and claiming the address as a residence or place of business constituted fraud as a federal crime. Those other boat people happily using their service are either leaving behind houses that they rent or leave empty or are more comfortable flirting with fraud punishable by jail time than I am.

I then called the motor vehicle department and said I would be traveling for a couple of years, didn’t plan to maintain an apartment while I was gone, and would rent another place when I returned. How could I maintain my residency? They were very clear, no way. Unless I have a legally binding document such as a deed, lease, or utility bill tying me to a specific physical address that is legal for occupancy, my driver’s license and car registration become void. No wiggle room. She went out of her way to say, “Staying with a friend doesn’t count.” Neither does paying thousands of dollars a year to the state in income taxes, local excise taxes on the boat, and being a registered voter.

I can sell the car; I’d planned to do that anyway. However, I can’t manage without a driver’s license. Enterprise car rental is my cruising lifeline since stores are far from the waterfront in most towns and there are always other errands to run. I also like to get away from the boat from time to time. Life without being able to legally drive is just not something I prepared to take on, even for cruising.

Fortunately, I haven’t given up my old address yet so I have some time to figure this out although I haven’t a clue yet what to do. The only option I can see at this point is to rent a very small apartment and just store my stuff in it. However, my cruising budget is slim enough that I then wouldn’t be able to afford to keep cruising so the whole question would then become moot.

Post 911 and in the third decade of the war on drugs (and just about everything else) society simply doesn’t have a place for people who aren’t willing to be pinned to the board like a bug; at least without being a lot more marginal than I’m willing to be.

It’s ironic that this all came up on the same day that I got much more positive news about continuing cruising. The report on my hip/spine joint X-ray came back and there is no sign of arthritis. That is very strange because my doctor (three doctors ago) saw it 15 years ago and all the problems have been in exactly the spot she identified. It’s good news because it means that there is nothing visibly degenerative going on as she predicted. Why the joint gets inflamed from time to time is now a mystery. The old X-ray was unfortunately lost during the three records transfers. I’ll find out more when I see the back doctor in August if I haven’t moved to a civilized country where paying taxes will let me drive a car by then.

I'm in EXACTLY the same boat... catch 22... can have my mail delivered anywhere I want, but getting boat and truck and bike registered here (new here on the north shore, Lake Pontchartrain) is proving a problem... Good luck on the back issue... I have a case of sciatica that cripples me once in a while... Will read the replies with interest... Good luck! If I come up with a solution I'll holler, but I've about resigned myself to renting that small apt you speak of... :/

 

[marcocarol]

You can live aboard legally

Hi Roger,
You can rent a small live aboard slip as your home and they do have mailboxes and you can legally have an address and a home port to come home to
Carol

I’d decided I was ready to go all in on living aboard but I don’t see any way at this point to do it. The boat’s document can only go to a physical street address so I talked to the local UPS Store two or three times and they said, “No problem, we have several boat people using our service.”

I went to sign up and read through the fine print on the documents they gave me to sign. It said that they were mail agents only and claiming the address as a residence or place of business constituted fraud as a federal crime. Those other boat people happily using their service are either leaving behind houses that they rent or leave empty or are more comfortable flirting with fraud punishable by jail time than I am.

I then called the motor vehicle department and said I would be traveling for a couple of years, didn’t plan to maintain an apartment while I was gone, and would rent another place when I returned. How could I maintain my residency? They were very clear, no way. Unless I have a legally binding document such as a deed, lease, or utility bill tying me to a specific physical address that is legal for occupancy, my driver’s license and car registration become void. No wiggle room. She went out of her way to say, “Staying with a friend doesn’t count.” Neither does paying thousands of dollars a year to the state in income taxes, local excise taxes on the boat, and being a registered voter.

I can sell the car; I’d planned to do that anyway. However, I can’t manage without a driver’s license. Enterprise car rental is my cruising lifeline since stores are far from the waterfront in most towns and there are always other errands to run. I also like to get away from the boat from time to time. Life without being able to legally drive is just not something I prepared to take on, even for cruising.

Fortunately, I haven’t given up my old address yet so I have some time to figure this out although I haven’t a clue yet what to do. The only option I can see at this point is to rent a very small apartment and just store my stuff in it. However, my cruising budget is slim enough that I then wouldn’t be able to afford to keep cruising so the whole question would then become moot.

Post 911 and in the third decade of the war on drugs (and just about everything else) society simply doesn’t have a place for people who aren’t willing to be pinned to the board like a bug; at least without being a lot more marginal than I’m willing to be.

It’s ironic that this all came up on the same day that I got much more positive news about continuing cruising. The report on my hip/spine joint X-ray came back and there is no sign of arthritis. That is very strange because my doctor (three doctors ago) saw it 15 years ago and all the problems have been in exactly the spot she identified. It’s good news because it means that there is nothing visibly degenerative going on as she predicted. Why the joint gets inflamed from time to time is now a mystery. The old X-ray was unfortunately lost during the three records transfers. I’ll find out more when I see the back doctor in August if I haven’t moved to a civilized country where paying taxes will let me drive a car by then.

 

[Roger Long]

You can rent a small live aboard slip as your home ...

Yes I know. It's an option here in Portland and about half the cost of a very small apartment. It's one of the things I'm considering.

 

[sea_casper]

Your problem with a drivers license should be solved by obtaining a international drivers license. Your local AAA should help with that. I would think that some boat friendly state
might allow you to register your boat there and use it as an address -- southern Calif has a lot of live aboards as does Fla. might try one of those. Good luck - I hope you can sail away like many of us only dream about.

LarryT

An international drivers license requires a drivers license issued by your home country, it is good for the sooner of three years or whenever your home license expires.

Does not solve anything.

 

[Roger Long]

i dont see how a document cannot go to a usps box. it used to be able to do that....i use a store front

The world has changed. The war on terror, immigration hysteria, and the Federal Real ID law have made a legally binding document tying you to a specific physical location mandatory.

I think might still be able to use a UPS store for receiving your vessel document but that's on the basis of the USPS requirement that there be a legal physical residence address attached to it. Drivers licenses and everything that now goes with them are a different matter.

Now, lots of people are getting away with it, just as there are a lot of people living in the county illegally. The situation is in transition and there are only so many people they can trace and chase.

I just don't want something hanging over my head that could come back to bite me, especially when it involves violation of federal law. The nation is going mad. Did you hear about the fellow who is facing 13 years in prison for writing a protest slogan about banks in front of one with hopscotch chalk that washes off with water?

BTW I would be careful at this point about posting online that you use a store front as a residence.