Yet Another Solo Mast Raising Question

[Bosman]

Raising a mast on a 30 footer can be a child's play, of course with well designed and safe system. Personally I prefer the A-frame setup, as shown on this video.

http://vimeo.com/2536762http://vimeo.com/2536762

 

[Joe11688]

Raising a mast on a 30 footer can be a child's play, of course with well designed and safe system. Personally I prefer the A-frame setup, as shown on this video.

http://vimeo.com/2536762

That rig sure is slick! I think I'd prefer one of those rigs myself if I had a larger sloop.

 

[ArtVandelay]

Wow, I can only hope mine goes that well, don't think I'll have a kid crank it up first try tho !

Work has been too busy and unfortunately I haven't put the boat in yet, but the gin pole rig is ready, the only problem I have is that the baby stays are not level with the step, so I'm assuming from what I hear and the law of physics, I won't be able to tighten them up, so I still need to make or aquire a piece to extend them up so that they are level then the other person at the step can just provide a little support. Anyone have a simple idea of a work around for this?

 

[justsomeguy]

Wow, I can only hope mine goes that well, don't think I'll have a kid crank it up first try tho !

Work has been too busy and unfortunately I haven't put the boat in yet, but the gin pole rig is ready, the only problem I have is that the baby stays are not level with the step, so I'm assuming from what I hear and the law of physics, I won't be able to tighten them up, so I still need to make or aquire a piece to extend them up so that they are level then the other person at the step can just provide a little support. Anyone have a simple idea of a work around for this?

When you say "level", you mean at a different elevation than your tabernacle, correct? I don't see how that would cause a problem.
Personally, I just grab the windward shroud when raising or lowering, and can control the sway against the breeze.

 

[ArtVandelay]

Yea, of course to keep the baby stays taught they have to be level with the tabernacle. It's cool you can just grab a stay and keep it steady that way, I can't.

Anyways I was just ready to raise it yesterday and realized there are 2 different pins on the base of the mast and the larger one is set in the rear for a bow to stern raise, that throws a wrench into my plans....

 

[justsomeguy]

Yea, of course to keep the baby stays taught they have to be level with the tabernacle. It's cool you can just grab a stay and keep it steady that way, I can't.

Anyways I was just ready to raise it yesterday and realized there are 2 different pins on the base of the mast and the larger one is set in the rear for a bow to stern raise, that throws a wrench into my plans....

Sorry if my question was confusing.

I'll try again. Level(up or down), or inline(fore and aft) with the pivot point of the mast/tabernacle? Correct me if I'm wrong, but the geometry seems more dependent on the latter than the former.
It would be helpful if you could get some photos of your set-up posted here.

 

[tkanzler]

For the babystays to maintain their effectiveness from horizontal mast to vertical mast, the hinge axis of each babystay termination must be in line with the hinge axis of the mast. If you put a 3/8" pin through the mast hinge, but made it 8 ft wide, the babystays would be hinging on this same pin. It doesn't actually have to be 8 ft wide, but the hinge axis must all be the same.

If you move the babystay axis just slightly forward of the mast hinge axis, then they will slacken a little as the mast goes up, which is normally ok, as the shrouds take over after a while, and it makes it easier to remove the babystays, if that's something you want to do. I just leave mine on my 26X - they don't get in the way, I grab onto them sometimes, and it's just one less thing to do.

 

[Joe11688]

Sorry if my question was confusing.

I'll try again. Level(up or down), or inline(fore and aft) with the pivot point of the mast/tabernacle? Correct me if I'm wrong, but the geometry seems more dependent on the latter than the former.
It would be helpful if you could get some photos of your set-up posted here.

"In line" with the pivot point is the term I would use. The Mac boats have flat cabin tops and the baby stays are easily connected in line with the pivot point of the mast which is the same height as the lower connections of the baby stays. Also there is plenty of width between these connections and the mast tabernacle to attain the lateral stability needed.

My O'Day 222 has a raised cabin with side decks. Although the cabin is flat enough for baby stay connections, it really isn't wide enough for adequate lateral stability for my mast. The wider these baby stays are, the better the stability.
To solve this problem I mounted hardware on my side decks for what I call pivot bridles which are made up of braid line, stainless steel rings, and snap hooks.
The rings on these pivot bridles come "in line" with the pivot point of my mast tabernacle pin when my baby stays and Gin Pole bridle is attached to the rings. My first pic only shows one of the pivot bridles for the sake of illustration. It doesn't show the ring in line with the mast, but it is if you're sighting it at the proper angle at the beam, perpendicular to the centerline of the boat.
You can stand on either side of the boat's beam, perpendicular to the centerline, and actually sight the rings and the pivot point of the mast.

These pivot bridles can work on most boats in mast raising/lowering over the bow or over the stern depending on the location of the side chainplates.

The mast yoke or anchor point for my baby stays in the second pic will work on any boat. Mine hinges around the mast with a dog to tighten up on it, but this device doesn't need to be too elaborate. A mast yoke can be made to fit snug on the mast with a long bolt and a screw type knob to secure it tighter to the mast.
I suppose that one could bore a hole through the mast and use a nut and bolt to hold a tang on each side of the mast and you could leave it attached. I think I'll pass on that one.

 

[justsomeguy]

It could be that I'm not appreciating the differences between our deck contours. If ArtVandelay's deck is like yours, then there is a concern for elevation differences, and I was mistaken.
You have elegantly sidestepped that little problem, Trinkka!

 

[LloydB]

So justsomeguy, Trinkka may not be aware that some Macs' do not have a flat cabin top that is even with the tabernacle pivot point. Those cases require a similar solution as he uses and has well presented: extended axle pivot points(moment) for the temporary(baby)stays. The raising system for the Oday would be preferable to me because the entire equipment can be put in a bucket when not in use however it doesn't work with my Mac because the stays are on the same side of the mast as the boom. For single handed operation many MacGregors need some type of gin pole for leverage on the bow side of the tabernacle or a long mast crutch aft. (unless of course you carry a trunk monkey)

 

[Joe11688]

So justsomeguy, Trinkka may not be aware that some Macs' do not have a flat cabin top that is even with the tabernacle pivot point. Those cases require a similar solution as he uses and has well presented: extended axle pivot points(moment) for the temporary(baby)stays. The raising system for the Oday would be preferable to me because the entire equipment can be put in a bucket when not in use however it doesn't work with my Mac because the stays are on the same side of the mast as the boom. For single handed operation many MacGregors need some type of gin pole for leverage on the bow side of the tabernacle or a long mast crutch aft. (unless of course you carry a trunk monkey)

Lloyd,
My side stays are set up aft of my mast also. Installing pad eyes forward of the chainplates gives me adequate lateral stability for mast raising/lowering with the pivot bridles and baby stays.

As for the height of my mast crutch; years ago I needed to raise it three feet in order for the pinned mast to clear the top of the closed companionway hatch.
After losing my mast back in the 1990s I was told by the rigger that I needed to elevate the new mast tabernacle plate about 1" on the cabin.

Years later when I built my Gin Pole, I discovered that I no longer needed to raise my mast crutch. That Teak block that I installed under my new Dwyer hinge plate did the trick.
Last year I replaced the Teak block with a piece of 1" Trex and it seems to be working out great for me.

My Gin Pole is made out of 1" stainless steel pipe and it comes apart in two equal sections and stows easily in my Port side quarter birth compartment with the pivot bridles and mast yoke.

If I didn't have the CDI Roller Fuler I wouldn't need pivot bridles and baby stays. I could get away with just the Gin Pole.

As it stands now, I only raise/lower my mast a couple of times each year and I want to be able to do it myself and not have to depend on anyone.

It's true that I don't know a lot about Macs, but I know enough about my boat to know what does and doesn't work. I think that it's up to the boat owner to find out for himself in the same way through experimentation. A lot of sloops are set up different.
Years ago, one of our YC members tried to raise the mast on a recent purchase of a Tanzer 22 and bent both of the side chainplates. He looked in the owner's manual and it stated that you don't raise the mast with the side stays connected. Who da thunk it? Not me. I never owned a Tanzer. He just asked me to help him raise the mast and I did.

 

[wstoloski]

Joe,

Where are you launching in the pictures? We are new to the area and looking for ramps to launch our Capri 16.5.

Will

 

[oldiesrocker2001]

The rollers on Trinkka's mast crutch make the job much easier than without(I haven't made the change on mine yet). My V21 is a bit smaller than your boat, but i've stepped the mast with the furler and the furled Jib attached. I bungee the furler to the mast about head height or to the gin pole if I'm using it that day. I also use one other person on the 4:1 block with a locking cam cleat.
Since I'm cautious about this procedure it takes me a substantial time to set it up and double-check everything. Since I also have more 'after market' parts in me than the boat I don't scramble up and down ladders or around the boat during this procedure as fast as I could've a dozen years ago...

 

[Joe11688]

Joe,

Where are you launching in the pictures? We are new to the area and looking for ramps to launch our Capri 16.5.

Will

Hi Will!
Sorry for the late response. I just came back from a three day cruise to Narragansett Bay in my boat this past week.

I belong to a YC on the Taunton River in North Dighton called the Shawomet Yacht Club and that picture was taken at our club ramp.
http://www.shawometyachtclub.com/

Years ago I used to trailer this boat to Mattapoiset Harbor.
They have a ramp that's pretty nice and it was free back then. We used to park the car and trailer at the corner of Railroad Street and Depot Street which is about an 1/8 mile from the ramp on Main Street in Mattapoiset. The reason why we parked there is because we could leave the car and trailer and go sailing for the week in Martha's Vineyard and the islands. They do have a parking lot at this ramp though. You just can't leave your car and trailer there for longer than the day.

There's a free Town of Dighton ramp located on the Taunton River on Pleasant Street just before our club but it's not to good at low tide.

There's also a better ramp located further up the road in Somerset which is located on Main Street. It's called the Somerset Waterfront Park and it's on a one way street. Pleasant Street turns into County Street as you get into Somerset at the Broad Cove bridge. You would need to take a left on to Avon Street and take a right on to Main street. The Waterfront Park is just up the hill on the left. I used this ramp extensively when I was trailering back in the late 80s and mid 1990s.

There are a lot of nice ramps on the Cape but most of them require a resident sticker to park which I think is a travesty. The fishermen paid for these ramps and everyone should be able to use them. Some towns charge non residents more money for ramp fees. I don't know how they get away with doing that but they do.

Monument Beach in Wareham has a nice ramp but I'd hop in your car and check it out first before you trailer your boat there.

I live in Taunton in the Sabbatia Lake area ( pronounced Sa-bay-sha') off Bay Street. The ramp is locate on Bay Street near Watson's Pond Park. The ramp is pretty good and it's free with plenty of parking. The bridge is out on Bay Street and you would need to take the detour to get there coming from Taunton. From Route 495, take the Bay Street exit and head toward Taunton and the ramp will be on the left just after Watson's Pond.
Fall River has a ramp on Davol Street which is located near Battleship Cove at the mouth of the Taunton River with access to Mount Hope Bay.

You'll probably need to just go out and scout out these ramps first and then decide if you want to use them.

Smooth Sailing!
Joe

 

[aviatorjames]

I've been using an A-Frame solo on my Capri 22... very simple & easy.
I just made a new & improved A-Frame and here's the video...
Needed to test the lengths and connections, so the genoa is not attached in this video.

Normally, it would be attached to the mast and held in place with velcro straps while raising the mast.
Once the mast is vertical, I unstrap the genoa/forestay, connect it at the bow fitting and then re-tighten the back stay turnbuckle.

An A-Frame has some real advantages over a gin-pole...
The most important is that the working end comes directly from the mast and allows you to compensate left or right for a cross-wind.

Hope this helps!

-JAMES-
"Bella Barchetta"

 

[Joe11688]

The "A" frame looks like a neat and easy set up. Do the pipes telescope to make it short for stowing?