Yet another Mast Rewire post...

[Team118]

Hey guys;

I had the mast stepped this winter with the intention of rewiring and relighting it in the spring...which has sprung!

All my mast lighting failed last year and I see now why. The anchor bulb was shot and the ground for the steamer/spreader light broke off inside the mast.

I plan on running 2 sets of tri-plex 12/3 wire through the mast. One to the steaming light and I also bought a LED spreader light.

The second run to the top will light a new LED Running Light/Anchor light. When in nav mode it will also light the Windex.

In addition I bought RG-8u cable for an antenna.

I know the process of attaching some type of pvc conduit to the front of the mast, but I'm not sure if I want to bother with this. My question is more about the mechanics of running the wires...

Spreader/Steaming Light:

I am going to run the 12/3 to the center of the mast. Currently there is a small 1/2" hole for the current light. I know I need to drill another hole for the wires to run to the spreader light.

1. Since both lights will share a ground, should I pigtail 2 grounds off the 12/3 wire and then run each to their own light?
2. I then need to 'hang' this wire within the mast. I don't think allowing this 20' length of wire to hang by the wires going through the holes in the mast is a good idea. Even if I add some type of sheathing to the holes for chafe protection will eventually fail.
3. Would it be practical to drill 2 holes under the spreader and use a plastic tie to cinch the wire up close? Would this tie eventually chafe through? Any other thoughts on how to suspend this wire and take the weight and pressure off the connectors to the indiviudal lights?

The same question would apply to the masthead, but would then apply to 40' of wire.

The other question would be once both 12/3 runs are in place along with the rg-8u cable, would it be prudent to cable tie all 3 together (at least up to the spreaders and then 2 up to the mast head).

I walked around the boat yard last weekend and looked at some of the larger masts on horses. I noticed that many had their vhf cables and some wiring coming out of holes on the sides and these holes were well sealed with...something. Silicone or perhaps a 4200 type poly? Is this typical?

And the last question is for the base of the mast. Since the mast has the original wiring, I plan to drill this out and install an 1 1/2" pvc pipe with a 90 degree elbow to run the new wiring out of the interior. I am going to need 3 connections. 2 for the 12/3 wiring and 1 for the rg-8u. Any suggestions as to what would be the best types of connectors.

I searched mast rewiring on the forums and most had to do with wiring size, using trailer wire, 4 prong connectors or how to attach pvc piping to the mast...

Again, I'm more about hanging the wire without putting undo stress on it.

Thanks for any thoughts!
Chris

 

[Old Skool Neil]

One question before I jump in: external or internal halyards?

 

[FourPoints]

I called my mast manufacturer, us spars, and they confirmed my mast has 2 pieces of conduit installed in the mast for running the wire through.

 

[Team118]

Sorry, meant to say that.

External halyards and there is nothing inside the mast but wires and an old empty bird nest...

 

[rbmcintire]

Hi Chris, I'm in the middle of the same thing with my mast. The connectors I'm looking at for the base of my mast are from Deutsch:
http://www.wirecare.com/Deutsch-Connectors.asp?selectedDelimiter=6&theSeries=DT
I'll rent the crimper for the nominal fee and send it back. I'll use a 6-pin and a 4-pin for my set-up. I'm using 14/3 because my existing in-mast conduit is 3/4" I.D. So in total, I've got two 14-3's, a 4-conductor Raymarine Wind Sensor and 0.4" O.D. RG 213/U for the VHF. Kinda tight. I'm using a new Allied Signal 25 series Anchor Light, and installing a USCG approved Dr. LED bulb, so the 14 gauge is plenty of amp capacity (ampacity?) to come down the mast, get into the boat to a new terminal strip where I switch over to 12 gauge and return to the panel. I've bought a new A.S. 25 series Steaming/ Spreader fixture also. I'm keeping that factory original, my thought is that the engine will be on for steaming so I could save the cost for the LED version.

The VHF cable PL259 connectors are the silver-coated solder type I found online cheap at Max-Gain Systems, Inc. There have been lots of recommendations to use Coax-Seal, a self-amalgamating rubber tape to wrap the connectors from weather. I'll use a female-female PL 258 connector at the mast base and have a second run of coax inside the boat to the radio. My P.O. used silicone to seal the mast holes and I guess some kind of caulk is where I'll be going as well. Here's my thoughts on tying the bundle together: electricians don't do it if they're in conduit. Laying open on data center wire racks, yes tied, but generally conduit will snug the wires up and marine grade tinned (stranded/ braided, not solid) should be fine in this drop length. Do an over-hand knot with each 14-3 and wrap the knot with amalg tape at each hole for strain relief and chafe. Leave enough extra to make your connections to the fixtures. Pull an extra pull string along to both locations, spreader and masthead. Do you really need 1.5" dia. for conduit? Otherwise, if you don't do pvc conduit, using long cable ties to hold the bundle from moving in the mast, or pulling a fabric sleeve up to hold the wires is definitely a must.

Rob

 

[Old Skool Neil]

All right, here's my take.

You are absolutely correct in wanting to support the wires along a 40 foot vertical run. Also, you don’t want the wires slapping the inside of the mast like halyards do on boats with inconsiderate owners.

Since I have external halyards, I used a technique we used at the boat plants in the 70’s. With the wiring harness outside the mast I tied foam “butterflies” every 4 feet or so to the harness. They were about three times the width of the mast section. With an electrician’s snake you then pull the whole assembly into the mast stuffing the foam in as you go. It has enough friction on the mast sides to support the wires and keeps them centered in the section. I used 3 snakes: one to the masthead, one to the foredeck/steaming light and the third to the radar mount. The trick is to pull everything in at the same time.

For deck penetration I drilled through the center of the mast step at an angle, exiting at the corner made by the main bulkhead and mast compression post (external to the compression post) inside the head. I didn’t care if I destroyed the factory wiring in the deck as I was replacing all the electrical anyway. I slipped a piece of PVC conduit in the hole leaving it 2” above the mast step and sealed it in place with 5200. I also drilled drain holes on either side of the mast right at the base through the mast and mast step.

I made the connections inside the head on a terminal strip screwed to the compression post (coax couplers for the antennae) and made a teak cover for it. The number of connections shown in the picture are because I have anchor, steaming and foredeck lights, three antennae cables and radar, much to connect in there.

Conduit through deck into head


Terminal strip on compression post


Teak cover


Lower view of wiring


Cover bottom

 

[rbmcintire]

Beautiful craftsmanship, Neil. Do you have a dinette version? I see the wires don't go to the bilge. I'm thinking I would redesign a new teak table bracket to conceal a wire raceway over to the port settee and new terminal strip forward of the holding tank. Have you already done that? I temporarily opened my box post up because the original Catalina wires were routed that way. Your woodwork is gorgeous, bro.

Rob

 

[Old Skool Neil]

Thank you Rob,

I worked at several boat plants in the 70's plus the Westsail 32 I built in the 80's so such projects are not new to me but I still appreciate a kind word.

My boat was originally built with the table mounted to the bulkhead but I modified it to a U shaped dinette. The additional seating afforded me a great battery box and a way to conceal the mast wiring. Here are a few more pictures admittedly not directly connected to the mast wiring topic except that it's where my wires are run.

New dinette seating


Affords a battery location low and centered in the boat


and the mast wiring


With another member here I've discussed a different concealment like a smaller storage cabinet fastened to the bulkhead under the table, maybe for tool storage. He really didn't want to get into reupholstery and all that. In my case I needed new cushions anyway so why not go for the full Monty?

 

[rbmcintire]

Indeed! I likey! Battery box is ingeniuous.

 

[Team118]

Neil and Rob;

Thanks for the great responses to my question.

I really don't want the stress of installing pvc conduit. I like the idea of 'butterflies'. I assume you mean some type of foam material in the shape of a bow tie that has to be squeezed into the mast with the wire harness tied to it...

Since this will keep the wiring snug, there is no stress on the wiring at the exit points in the mast?

Also, I like your idea for entrance into the boat for the wiring. I assume the wiring from the mast goes through the hole you created, there is no need for any type of connectors. You just disconnect the wiring from the terminal strip and then pull the wiring through the opening? Coax couplers excluded...

The terminal strip idea certainly eliminates a potential for a failure inside the mast.

Well, I think I have a plan thanks to you. Obviously, it won't go ANY WHERE NEAR as simple as you made it!

Such is the life of boat owner! I can't wait!

Chris

 

[Old Skool Neil]

I used grommets at the wiring exit holes, installed with the wiring in place and followed up with a dollop of silicone.

There's a neat trick to drilling the hole through the deck at a precise angle. With a 1/4 x 12" bit drill down through the mast step estimating the angle as best you can but drill only about half way through. Then repeat the process from inside the head aiming for the center of the mast step. From inside the head remember to start the hole far enough away from the bulkhead and compression post to allow for the finished (larger) hole, it'll be about 1 1/8" diameter. If your aim was close the drill bit will drift into the first half hole and follow it to the center of the mast step. Then it's a matter of enlarging from there.

One other benefit of running the wiring outside the post but in the head, any moisture that migrates down the wiring ends up in the shower pan.

I'm glad I could help. You're right, I've simplified the description but plan your moves in advance, one thing at a time and never, never give up (we've known each other long enough that I know you wouldn't).

One final note of safety: if you have helpers around when you're drilling, keep an eye on the drill chips as they exit. When drilling down through the deck, if you see hair in the chips, STOP! Same thing when drilling up from the head except look for tennis shoe rubber (we were actually told this at the boat plants).

edit:
Wanted to acknowledge your comment re: connectors. You are correct, absolutely zero connectors inside the mast, everything is accessible either in the head or under the light fixture or antenna.

 

[rbmcintire]

Hmmm... now I have to contemplate a possible change of plan. There's definitely a reliability advantage to not having extra connectors, but I already have a conduit run from the mast base into the compression post. I was thinking I didn't want to reopen my post to access a terminal strip in there, so I was locating the strip inside the port settee and making the mast fully disconnectable above deck when the crane guy comes. But what the heck, should I make the interior of the compression post always accessible? Should I just screw it back together and not glue it? Maybe just screw and glue 90% of the aft board back in place and then just leave an access "block" to get at the terminal strip and the VHF connectors? Moisture that might get through will exit down at the bottom of the post through a weep hole into the bilge. I'm doing the Catalina bilge plywood renovation, replacing it with G10 at this time, so water down there won't be a problem. I think an epoxy or varnish coat on the inside of the post would be helpful also in that regard. This is mo' bettah, less to go wrong. Thanks, Neil.

Rob

 

[rbmcintire]

Chris,

Look into Twist n' Stay foam ties, might be just the thing:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=F4p3V6io7Jc&feature=related

This guy sounds like he and Billy Mays probably "wrapped a few lines"...

Rob

 

[Old Skool Neil]

I checked out the video and IMO the 'stay' part of 'Twist and Stay' is a negative. Once the foam is crammed into the mast section you want it to relax outward to wedge itself in there, kinda like those foam earplugs.

 

[rbmcintire]

Hey Neil, do you think I'd have a problem not gluing my aft compression post board and just using screws to mount it back in place to the post? Or glue most of it, leave an access section for the new terminal strip?

Rob

 

[Old Skool Neil]

Rob,
I'm the wrong guy to ask because I haven't had my post apart. My generic answer is if the piece you're talking about is decorative I see no problem. On the other hand, if it contributes to the structural support of the deck under the mast there's no way I'd recommend anything that could compromise the support. The forces in that area can be tremendous depending on the conditions.

Maybe a call to Catalina? Nobody could understand the situation better.

 

[rbmcintire]

Thank you, Neil. Your perspective is definitely appreciated. I will look into it further.

Rob

 

[Old Skool Neil]

No sweat Rob,

Please post back with your solutions/progress (you too Chris). It's great to see how others 'skin the cat.'

 

[Twice Around]

Rob/Chris, please report back on that compression post stuff..I've never had mine part either and right now it is still sound.

I have some pics of what Neil is talking about as I followed some of his advice when I did mine, but I'll have to post them later.

He's already posted the inside pictures, I have a few of the outside.

BTW - I did the conduit thing in the mast for the wires (since I also converted my main & jib halyards to internal) and it worked out without too much drama, except that one end rolled a little in the middle so the two pieces did not line up perfectly at the spreaders. Running lots of messengers in the conduit prior to putting it in the mast was the key to my success. That way, I could pull all the stuff thru whether things lined up or not.

edit - here are four pics..one is the angle we drilled the hole saw to get the PVC pipe to come out of the head..the 2nd is a successful hole, 3rd with the PVC installed, and lots 4200 to convince the water to drain outside..it mostly does - I need to drill holes in the bottom of the extrusion itself to create a drain path. Fourth pic is PVC conduit coming out in the head..I have since removed the 45 angle and just cut it flush with the cabin liner. I do not have the skills that Neil does, so I have a simple buss bar just mounted on the bulkhead for now..I also don't have the U shaped dinette, so I will need to run my wires differently, I really like Rob's idea of hiding them within the table hanger.

 

[Team118]

Hey guys;

When I finish with the mast, I'll post all of the pictures for others.

I'm not going to bother with adding conduit. I like the foam idea, still trying to figure out what to use...

I also am not going to try and drill the hole through the deck at an angle. Since I'm going to cover the terminals with a teak cover like Old Skool, I decided it didn't matter if the compression post has a hole in it. I'll drill the hole through the deck straight through and 4200 the pvc pipe through the hole for the wiring.

Then I'll fish the wire ends through the hole in the compression post and run them to the terminal. The hole is 1 3/8" x 2", so it's large enough to grab the wires, but small enough not to ruin the integrity of the post.

I too don't have the 'u' shaped dinette, so I'll run the wiring along the ceiling of the head over to the cabinet then along the cabins sole to the area behind the galley, down and to my circuit box over the nav table.

Thanks for the ideas, they were a great help.

Chris