Wooden

Mar 20, 2015
3,094
C&C 30 Mk1 Winnipeg
(Quebec, Ontario, Manitoba, Saskatchewan, Alberta, and British Columbia) and I saw the decline in all of them.
I am in Manitoba currently.

The 70 and 80s they were investing in better trades training.. and in computer science. (I was in the first class year and learned on a mini computer with punch cards and on the ”new” Commodore 1080)

There was a short decline for a while in the 90s here.
I suspect due to the cost of trades training.

They got smart and instead of trying to have it in almost every highschool, they do it in handful of schools that focus on that goal and are better equipped at a lower cost. I assume they also attract better teachers.

”Jack of all trades, master of none” comes to mind.

Tec Voc High School has been around since I was a kid, but we a have a bunch now.

Some schools have classes for the general public during the summer. It helps fund the school. I took a welding course that way. $300 for training and access to a complete shop that had a computerized plasma cutter.


Edit: I do notice a general decrease in in what I would call typical DIY skills. Not typical for people under a certain age, anymore. Most of my nephews and nieces have no interest in doing diy or working a trade.
 
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DArcy

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Feb 11, 2017
1,690
Islander Freeport 36 Ottawa
Here in Ottawa we have always had some schools that were specialized in certain areas. I went to an academic school so I took summer courses at the tech school to learn things like machining and printing presses. That may be how I ended up as a mechanical engineer. My daughter went to one of the few schools that still has an auto shop and she really enjoyed auto class. Comes in handy that she is good with tools for help working on the boat :).
@All U Get that looks like a great place to hang out with all wooden boats and bronze castings. Have fun polishing the cleats, it can be very therapeutic.
 
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DougM

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Jul 24, 2005
2,242
Beneteau 323 Manistee, MI
I believe it was an unintended consequence of the "No Child Left Behind" policies enacted in the early 2000's.
I agree to a point. Somehow those who reside in that 6 mile square known as D.C. harbor the belief that the only good education implies the requirement of a college degree. That concept completely ignores that fact that many thrive in a “hands on” learning environment rather than a total classroom curriculum.
There is a very good vocational high school in the county where I grew up, but I believe that high school counselors were hard wired to interpret the “no child left” program to mean college only. I tend to think that led those students who were legitimately college bound to stigmatize those who were better served by a vocational environment as the dumb kids.
 
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Jan 19, 2010
12,362
Hobie 16 & Rhodes 22 Skeeter Charleston
I tend to think that led those students who were legitimately college bound to stigmatize those who were better served by a vocational environment as the dumb kids.
I think the teachers participated (probably unknowingly) to some of that stigmatization.

A few years ago, the blower on our HVAC system got out of balance. It took 18 months to get a guy to come out... I know that sounds crazy but it really took us 18 months... (we gave up on the first guy). There is such a shortage of skilled technicians right now.

I am quite certain you could make as much as a specialty welder as you could as a GP.

I have a cousin who got two associate degrees, one in electronic repair and the other in TV repair. He started at Sprint installing relay switches in the cell towers and bounced around between the different cell phone companies as each kept offering him a better salary. He eventually started his own company (8 employees) and contracted out to the telephone companies... he is now retired. I have a Ph.D. and will probably die at my desk.
 
Mar 20, 2015
3,094
C&C 30 Mk1 Winnipeg
He eventually started his own company (8 employees) and contracted out to the telephone companies... he is now retired. I have a Ph.D. and will probably die at my desk
Owning a business (not owning a job like some busineses) is the way to real money.
he is now retired. I have a Ph.D. and will probably die at my desk
Go work in the ER so you can die on your feet instead ?
 
Jan 1, 2006
7,039
Slickcraft 26 Sailfish
Mike Rowe has been yelling this from the rooftops for years now.
I don't want to get into it too much but every greatest generation wanted their kids to be management and so go to college. And then more or less the same for the baby boomers. But there are only so many management positions and mostly they are horrible jobs in the cog of corporate life. Not the upper class bliss dreamed of. Since the technical revolutions of the last 20 years everything has changed and the old assumptions and rules don't apply. Now there is disruptive entrepreneurs and when I watch CNBC I can't even understand what these new companies do. I know the English words but can't understand what "Platform security and ..." means.
Things change. But I think having skills always works. Skills is different than education.
 

PaulK

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Dec 1, 2009
1,222
Sabre 402 Southport, CT
Woodenboat's facilities are fantastic, along with the know-how that gathers there to make it all happen. It is a special place that helps maintain the capabilities of an entire industry. Not something that is needed in every high school, however. Manufacturing is quite different now from what it was 20, 40, or 60 years ago, when shop class was the norm. Tools are so complex that learning how a drill press works would have minimal application. A shop class outfitted with $3,000,000 of now-current equipment would be obsolete in 5 years, and where would you find teachers in the meantime? The people who know how to use the equipment are working in private industry for 3 times what a teacher makes. Perhaps the closest thing would be the makerspaces and robotics classes that ARE being done all over the country now. UMaine's 3-D printer powerboat also comes to mind.
People want to learn how to do things, and a lot more is possible now than before.
IMG_6690.jpeg
 
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dLj

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Mar 23, 2017
3,373
Belliure 41 Sailing back to the Chesapeake
A shop class outfitted with $3,000,000 of now-current equipment would be obsolete in 5 years, and where would you find teachers in the meantime? The people who know how to use the equipment are working in private industry for 3 times what a teacher makes. Perhaps the closest thing would be the makerspaces and robotics classes that ARE being done all over the country now. UMaine's 3-D printer powerboat also comes to mind.
People want to learn how to do things, and a lot more is possible now than before.
We complain about working on our boats now, asking how did the original builders ever think about doing work on this or that system down the road? Most of us have been there, that tank that was put in while the top of the boat was not attached yet; that hose line that runs in a way you can't even reach whatever part you need to change it out.

I look at this 3D printed boat and can't help myself asking if the designers thought about working on that boat in the future and changing out aging systems was anywhere in their minds. Certainly I don't know the answer, but I can't imagine those thoughts were present. 3D printings main advantage over traditional construction methods is the ability to produce complex structures that can't be made through traditional methods.

There are breakthroughs happening in technologies in 3D printing that facilitate speed of construction but that is still not the norm at all. There is a company out of California that builds buildings, bridges - that sort of construction - that can build much faster than traditional methods. Perhaps that may be the case for that boat, but I find it hard to believe that's the case here as you have so many systems involved, like electric, plumbing, etc. that would not lend itself to that specific machine shown. Of course, that boat looked fairly simple, no bathroom on board that one, for example.

3D printing is an amazing field. But it will not displace traditional methods, it will only augment them as another tool in our manufacturing tool box.

dj
 
Oct 22, 2014
20,992
CAL 35 Cruiser #21 moored EVERETT WA
While the "No Child Left Behind" program may have contributed to the demise of shop classes in school, I think the impetus was more of an academic one. In 1998 Clinton started the Federal Government on an Higer Educational spending spree.
Summary: President Clinton signed the Higher Education Amendments of 1998 into law​
November 18, 1998​
GEN-98-27​
Dear Colleague:​
On October 7, 1998, President Clinton signed the Higher Education Amendments of 1998 into law. In a strong show of bipartisan support, both the House of Representatives and the Senate passed this legislation unanimously.​
I believe this new legislation will help strengthen higher education for the next century. The law promises to help reduce the cost of student loans, prepare more students for college, recruit and train well-qualified teachers, expand the innovative use of distance learning, and reduce administrative burdens on schools. Today, I am writing to ask your help in fulfilling that promise.​

With this funding the State funding declined and Federal Funding increased. While States have an interest in preparing HS Students to be productive citizens with jobs, the Federal funds brought a different focus. Post High School education was considered the purpose for Federal Funding. Government funding of "Higher Education" meant the focus on 'getting you money's worth out of Federal dollars' prompted the validation by testing "No Child Left Behind". Teacher training became the tool to build a base of College Focused HS teachers. With all the energy placed on the college programs, the interest for trades education got placed on the back burner. We need Computer Programmers not Home Ec majors. You can learn the trades in a trade school (which started to pop up)

Follow the money if you want to understand political issues. I think the loss of shop was a bad idea for our students and our communities.

On the other hand I have observed over the past several years the lack of trained individuals who can solve practical problems, like getting a car to run, has really improved the pay scale for those who know how to work with their hands and are not afraid of a little grease beneath their finger nails.

I was studying to be an Industrial Arts teacher, before I switched to Business and computers. I really enjoyed shop.
 
Jan 19, 2010
12,362
Hobie 16 & Rhodes 22 Skeeter Charleston
That is beautiful!:clap:

I made a strip plank canoe with my daughter once. We ripped douglas fir 2x4's to make the stips. It was not that hard and with practice I think we could make an enviable product. I've since had a fancy to make a couple of kayaks, similar in design to the one you made here, but instead of a cockpit, build in a small hatch. The inside of the kayak would have a single berth. I would then use the kayaks as amas on a trimaran sailing canoe. In my mind, the canoe would have a small aft cabin that contained the galley and head. Scale it up a little and the amas might house cozy double berths ...:biggrin:
 
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Feb 26, 2009
716
Oday 30 Anchor Yacht Club, Bristol PA
Late to the party! just saw the title!
I've been 35 years plus building restoring small craft my son was into it for a while he was supposed to take over the family HVAC business and I was going to retire to antique and small boat restoration I did retire and my son passed at an early age anyways pictures usually do a better explanation after about 7 strip canoes I got sick of the sticky stuff and went with traditional boat building skills and woodworking.
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My friend and student John, we restored cracked and broken ribs planking on his 1928 18 ft Old Town HW it was last job I did with somebody, I sold my house about 4 months ago completely emptied the shop.
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This was the canvas job on my personal 15 ft one off design
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A friend gave me a Chesapeake lidgt craft Eastport pram that he started and never finished, I completed the project and sold it about 2 years ago.
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Sorry about the screenshots I forgot to edit there is much much more but it's really tedious posting pictures on threads like this
 

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