Winter Cautionary tale!

Aug 3, 2012
2,542
Performance Cruising Telstar 28 302 Watkins Glen
I had an interesting experience today.

I was in my warehouse. The temp is controlled at 44 degrees by a furnace. I decided to bring a portable, “salamander” propane heater in to add some heat near the front of the warehouse.
I ran the heater, and after a while, I noticed a smell. Then I noticed my eyes were beginning to burn... then I noticed a haze in the air. Do you know why?
I looked it up, as the smell was distinct and strong, getting stronger!
I was accidentally chlorinating propane! I think the exposure to the strong, blue LED lighting, the cool temperature in the warehouse, and an inefficient burning heater created the conditions. Luckily, the smell and burning eyes alerted me! I got out and ventilated the space. I think I will let the furnace warm the place up!
I thought you would like this anecdote!
By the way, we are selling our trimaran, and I am refurbishing a 2006 Rinker 270 express cruiser powerboat.
 
Aug 3, 2012
2,542
Performance Cruising Telstar 28 302 Watkins Glen
How does that “chlorinate” the incomplete combustion products (CO and CO2)) of propane?
You tell me! I only looked it up. Apparently, propane can chlorinate in bright light and the right temps. The “bleach” smell was powerful. My eyes were burning, and there was some haze in the air. No doubt what it was.
 
Sep 25, 2008
7,077
Alden 50 Sarasota, Florida
You tell me! I only looked it up. Apparently, propane can chlorinate in bright light and the right temps. The “bleach” smell was powerful. My eyes were burning, and there was some haze in the air. No doubt what it was.
I’m a chemical engineer. My first suggestion is to not accept everything we read on the internet as factual. Or in this case, conceivable.
My guess is the haze was condensation from rising warm air highlighted by the lighting and the odor was atomized fuel or incomplete combustion from the furnace.

Regardless, it’s not possible to create Cl gas from propane, heating oil and a LED bulb.
 
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Likes: Will Gilmore
Jul 30, 2019
216
Seaward 25 777 Fort St. James
I think you have to have a chlorine source. A recently bleached surface or an open container, with a wide mouth, of chlorine bleach or bleach-based cleaner.

Recently I read where someone described using bleach to clean inside a small boat cabin. This can be lethal, especially if there is an ammonia source (found obviously in many household cleaners). But, you do need to have chlorine to get chlorination.

Bob
 
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Likes: Mak41
Oct 29, 2016
1,915
Hunter 41 DS Port Huron
Burning eyes would be more likely from aldehyde caused by incomplete combustion, the haze in the air is most likely as stated condensation.
 
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Likes: Mak41
Aug 3, 2012
2,542
Performance Cruising Telstar 28 302 Watkins Glen
I hear ya, but NONE of those existed. I have been in the warehouse for months. I have used the furnace for months. No source of chlorine exists in the warehouse. My bleach is in the building, not the warehouse. All my cleaners are in the building, not the warehouse.
I know what I smelled. It only started with the portable heater, and it ended after I shut it off. I can understand water vapor, but the chlorine was obvious. There is no open source of liquid in the warehouse. The smell is barely apparent 2 hours later.
 
Aug 3, 2012
2,542
Performance Cruising Telstar 28 302 Watkins Glen
I will let you know if I find an open source of chlorine in the boat or warehouse.
 
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Jan 19, 2010
12,362
Hobie 16 & Rhodes 22 Skeeter Charleston
Any chance something got spilled in the heater during a previous job? If so, you may want to plug it in outside and burn it out.
 
Aug 3, 2012
2,542
Performance Cruising Telstar 28 302 Watkins Glen
no. Nothing spilled in the heater. It would have smoked right away. The mystery continues! Maybe it was just exhaust, but I have used this heater before, just not inside the closed warehouse. The smell took a while to build. The heater has always had a smell of unburned propane as I use it. It has that smell that is added: kinda rotten-eggy when I use it. I rarely use it. Maybe the exhaust mixed with unburned propane to become noxious? But why the chlorine smell. I get the burning eyes could be anything.
I think I will check with the manufacturer about the raw gas smell.
 
Aug 3, 2012
2,542
Performance Cruising Telstar 28 302 Watkins Glen
New possibility: people report smelling chlorine and getting stinging eyes when the tank is supplying too little gas for the heater or they run out of gas. This is a 65000 btu heater on a 20 lb tank, and the tank and heater were stored on a closed, unheated back porch at my building. I have always stored it there. I have only used the heater probably 5 times. I remember the smell of the gas other times, but maybe not always.
Could this be it: cold tank providing too little gas for proper combustion?
 
Aug 3, 2012
2,542
Performance Cruising Telstar 28 302 Watkins Glen
Or is the tank too small? I cannot imagine hauling a bigger tank around. I will store the tank indoors tonight and try it tomorrow in the same conditions.
 
Aug 3, 2012
2,542
Performance Cruising Telstar 28 302 Watkins Glen
I am thinking Don’s suggestion of incomplete combustion, but of the heater, not of the furnace, makes sense. I have NO idea why it produces a chlorine smell, but I stand by it. It was pretty intense.
 
Nov 30, 2015
1,337
Hunter 1978 H30 Cherubini, Treman Marina, Ithaca, NY
Hi Andrew @agprice22, very interesting post and also a bit worrisome. I have a propane fueled torpedo heater as well for warming the garage. I’m wondering if there may be a source of ice melt salt nearby the intake of the heater. These things have a huge air volume requirement and create a tremendous vacuum near the floor. If there’s a source of salt (NaCl or KCl) nearby it may be drawn into the unit and ionized in the flame, creating your toxic environment.

Sorry to hear you’re selling the Telstar.

30F84701-192F-414D-B32C-1D80FD446D40.jpeg
 
Aug 3, 2012
2,542
Performance Cruising Telstar 28 302 Watkins Glen
I will certainly be aware of the floor around the heater. The warehouse was clear around the heater because it is an open source of flame. It was shocking how intense the chlorine smell got. I spent some time out of the warehouse a couple hours later, and I could still smell it a little when I returned.
Helene and I want to begin exploring some new places, and we do not have time to cruise to them. We also do not want the work of setting up the boat if we trailer it there. Perhaps we will get another C22. The thing is, Helene likes the boats, but she never fell in love with sailing. Maybe she would if we could sail all day in the ocean. The lake is a lot of work! The faster you go, the more you tack. Anyway, I have done both sail and power my whole life, so I am good with either.

thanks!
 
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Likes: BlowMeAway
Nov 30, 2015
1,337
Hunter 1978 H30 Cherubini, Treman Marina, Ithaca, NY
I will certainly be aware of the floor around the heater. The warehouse was clear around the heater because it is an open source of flame. It was shocking how intense the chlorine smell got. I spent some time out of the warehouse a couple hours later, and I could still smell it a little when I returned.
Helene and I want to begin exploring some new places, and we do not have time to cruise to them. We also do not want the work of setting up the boat if we trailer it there. Perhaps we will get another C22. The thing is, Helene likes the boats, but she never fell in love with sailing. Maybe she would if we could sail all day in the ocean. The lake is a lot of work! The faster you go, the more you tack. Anyway, I have done both sail and power my whole life, so I am good with either.

thanks!
Roger that Mate! LOL... The faster you go, the more you tack. Don’t I know that:

AFD108C8-8D29-4365-8481-19E822A13E1E.jpeg
 

FDL S2

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Jun 29, 2014
469
S2 7.3 Fond du Lac
I'm reading this in my garage with a 60,000btu lp torpedo heater running. I have run probably 25 20lb tanks through it and never had anything like that happen.....now when I used an 80,000btu kerosene torpedo heater that was a different story-dry eyes and throat for a few days after was the norm-but that thing kicks out instant heat-I only use it if I have to work on something outside now.
 
Sep 24, 2018
2,549
O'Day 25 Chicago
Have you used this tank before? Perhaps there was something unusual done to it when it was last refilled? It's a stretch but possible
 

Mak41

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Jul 26, 2019
20
Oday Daysailer 2 6211 Chautauqua Lake & others.
I will let you know if I find an open source of chlorine in the boat or warehouse.
Look first where the salamander was pointed. I'm suspecting that something was inside something... and so it took a while to get warm.