If it comes to the point I'm unable to remove that stud then I'll probably take it to the professionals and spend the money to have it correctly repaired. Here's hoping I'll get the stud out.
Good luck trying to remove the broken stainless steel bolt on the keel hanger. I wouldn't even waste my time because you'll just end up making things worse. Just go ahead and replace the weldment assembly. It's not that difficult of a job and a Dremel Tool makes quick work of it. They are replaced from inside the boat. Simply grind off the fiberglass on top of the weldment, pop it out, insert the new one, and epoxy it back in place. Just finished replacing two for a friend, one had the extractor broken off in the broken bolt.
The photo shows what a weldment looks like, available from Catalina Direct. The photos shows the replacement of the starboard forward weldment. I also replaced the portside rear weldment on this project. The last photo shows the two new weldments installed and the keel is ready to be rehung. You don't need to remove the keel to replace a weldment, but you'll need to properly support it while the repair is being made. But, the keel looks like it needs attention too, so it just might be time to do it right the first time, so you only have to do it once.
I attached the factory drawing on the swing keel assembly that shows the weldments in the boats keelson.
Don
The photo shows what a weldment looks like, available from Catalina Direct. The photos shows the replacement of the starboard forward weldment. I also replaced the portside rear weldment on this project. The last photo shows the two new weldments installed and the keel is ready to be rehung. You don't need to remove the keel to replace a weldment, but you'll need to properly support it while the repair is being made. But, the keel looks like it needs attention too, so it just might be time to do it right the first time, so you only have to do it once.
I attached the factory drawing on the swing keel assembly that shows the weldments in the boats keelson.
Don
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Capt Don how much epoxy and fiberglass do I need to get the proper strength to hold it in place? Are there instructions on how much to use
Epoxy is easy to use and easy to mix, no smell like polyester resin. If you buy West System epoxy and hardener there is a mini pump set for $16, they are metered so that one pump of epoxy resin gets exactly one pump of hardener (but they are different amounts of liquid, the pumps measure it for you). Watch some You tube videos on basic fiberglass repair, it is not hard. Everything else is basic hand tool and carpentry power tools, just wear a mask when you sand or cut fiberglass so as not to inhale airborne fibers.
If you were willing to spend money on a professional to fix that weldment, save it to have the keel professionally sand blasted... it will save you hours of tedious work and pain. Nothing gets a cast iron keel cleaner and ready for epoxy sealing better than sand blasting. Several members including myself have done this job and posted pictures here. The job requires some heavy lifting, but as far as skill level, anyone with basic handyman ability can do it.
I would buy a gallon of West System Epoxy and a quart of fast cure hardener plus the mini pump kit, shop online for the best deal. All that will set you back $150, I know it sounds painful but its worth it. You won't use too much of the resin on repairing the weldment, maybe 8 to 10 oz total, but the rest you will use up sealing the keel after it is sand blasted. I haven't seen a full picture of your keel, but it looks to be in OK condition and won't require too much filler and fairing. It will be much easier and safer to fix the weldment if you remove the keel anyway. Good luck!
If you were willing to spend money on a professional to fix that weldment, save it to have the keel professionally sand blasted... it will save you hours of tedious work and pain. Nothing gets a cast iron keel cleaner and ready for epoxy sealing better than sand blasting. Several members including myself have done this job and posted pictures here. The job requires some heavy lifting, but as far as skill level, anyone with basic handyman ability can do it.
I would buy a gallon of West System Epoxy and a quart of fast cure hardener plus the mini pump kit, shop online for the best deal. All that will set you back $150, I know it sounds painful but its worth it. You won't use too much of the resin on repairing the weldment, maybe 8 to 10 oz total, but the rest you will use up sealing the keel after it is sand blasted. I haven't seen a full picture of your keel, but it looks to be in OK condition and won't require too much filler and fairing. It will be much easier and safer to fix the weldment if you remove the keel anyway. Good luck!
C-22 Daydreamer,
It's hard to say how much epoxy I used on replacing the two weldments on the recent job I did. I would guess 3-4 oz, but that's just a guess. If you read the comments on the factory drawing I posted, they recommend covering the new weldment by building it back up about 1/4" above the weldment, I went a little more.
I normally keep a quart of WEST 105 resin, and the small can of 206 slow hardener in the shop. The slower the cure, the less epoxy you'll need because of the increased work time, and the slower cure gives a stronger bond and stronger epoxy. I also use the pumps on my resin and hardener containers. It just makes mixing the correct ratio so easy. I also keep a can of their 404 High Strength additive,(it's a fine powder), on hand for general useage. I'll have a couple yards of 2" fiberglass tape and maybe a yard or so of fiberglass cloth in the shop. I save my popsicle sticks and throw them in the dishwasher with the silverware and use them for mixing sticks, and I have small acid brushes that I buy at Harbor Freight. I use the small bathroom Dixie Cups for mixing. I normally only use small batches of resin at a time, and it has worked well for me. I only use WEST products, cheaper materials are out there, but no one has the expertise and history of epoxy development like WEST in my opinion. To anyone owning an old boat, I can't say it enough, download the information available for free on the WEST web site, here's a link:
http://www.westsystem.com/ss/use-guides/
Trying to find a professional fiberglass repair person familiar with the C-22 will probably be next to impossible to find in my opinion. And the key word is "familiar". Easy boats to work on, but someone not familiar will quickly get expensive at your expense. Repairing a fiberglass boat is not rocket science. Preparation is a HUGE part of a successful repair, and is the most time consuming portion of the project.
Another source of information for the C-22 is the C-22 Tech Manual. You can purchase a CD or pay a very reasonable fee that will allow you to download the PDF file if you are a member of the C-22 Association,(also very reasonable to join). You will find over 400 pages collected from articles in the MainBrace,(the bi-monthly C-22 magazine), from the past 40+ years. You will find information on just about any repair, modification, or maintenance issue you can imagine on a C-22.
Don
It's hard to say how much epoxy I used on replacing the two weldments on the recent job I did. I would guess 3-4 oz, but that's just a guess. If you read the comments on the factory drawing I posted, they recommend covering the new weldment by building it back up about 1/4" above the weldment, I went a little more.
I normally keep a quart of WEST 105 resin, and the small can of 206 slow hardener in the shop. The slower the cure, the less epoxy you'll need because of the increased work time, and the slower cure gives a stronger bond and stronger epoxy. I also use the pumps on my resin and hardener containers. It just makes mixing the correct ratio so easy. I also keep a can of their 404 High Strength additive,(it's a fine powder), on hand for general useage. I'll have a couple yards of 2" fiberglass tape and maybe a yard or so of fiberglass cloth in the shop. I save my popsicle sticks and throw them in the dishwasher with the silverware and use them for mixing sticks, and I have small acid brushes that I buy at Harbor Freight. I use the small bathroom Dixie Cups for mixing. I normally only use small batches of resin at a time, and it has worked well for me. I only use WEST products, cheaper materials are out there, but no one has the expertise and history of epoxy development like WEST in my opinion. To anyone owning an old boat, I can't say it enough, download the information available for free on the WEST web site, here's a link:
http://www.westsystem.com/ss/use-guides/
Trying to find a professional fiberglass repair person familiar with the C-22 will probably be next to impossible to find in my opinion. And the key word is "familiar". Easy boats to work on, but someone not familiar will quickly get expensive at your expense. Repairing a fiberglass boat is not rocket science. Preparation is a HUGE part of a successful repair, and is the most time consuming portion of the project.
Another source of information for the C-22 is the C-22 Tech Manual. You can purchase a CD or pay a very reasonable fee that will allow you to download the PDF file if you are a member of the C-22 Association,(also very reasonable to join). You will find over 400 pages collected from articles in the MainBrace,(the bi-monthly C-22 magazine), from the past 40+ years. You will find information on just about any repair, modification, or maintenance issue you can imagine on a C-22.
Don
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Thanks CD, I just backed the trailer up in the driveway so I can work on it. May have dodged a bullet. Upon closer inspection it appears that the bolt did just come out. I have the other bolt out was very careful to work it out gently to not twist the head off. I was then able to line the bracket up to the slot. I slid a screwdriver up in the hole and it went up about an inch and 3/4 into the hole. The bracket is hanging down about a half inch. I need to straighten the keel, make it vertical, to see if the new bolts will work. Any ideas on making it go 90 degrees? Do need to lift the boat off the keel somewhat?
Don,
I actually know a guy who knows a guy. Lol. There's a guy who does this very thing. I'll get in touch with him if need be. He's the guy who took my wife and I out on his O'Day on our 25th wedding anniversary a couple of years ago. That's when my quest began to become a real sailor. It's looking like I won't have to tap out the threads after all. I couldn't tell very well it looked like the stud was still in the hole but when I was able to get the other bolt off I was able to get a screwdriver in the hole. No bolt just threads. See my reply to CD. Thanks for the info I'm sure I'll need it at some point.
I actually know a guy who knows a guy. Lol. There's a guy who does this very thing. I'll get in touch with him if need be. He's the guy who took my wife and I out on his O'Day on our 25th wedding anniversary a couple of years ago. That's when my quest began to become a real sailor. It's looking like I won't have to tap out the threads after all. I couldn't tell very well it looked like the stud was still in the hole but when I was able to get the other bolt off I was able to get a screwdriver in the hole. No bolt just threads. See my reply to CD. Thanks for the info I'm sure I'll need it at some point.
Alright here are some more pics.
The last one here is a dent on the aft port side. I don't think there's any water leak here. I intend to shore this up over the winter.
The last one here is a dent on the aft port side. I don't think there's any water leak here. I intend to shore this up over the winter.
It would still be a good idea to get the keel cleaned up and repainted at some point. If you want to get some sailing done this season and save that work until the fall I completely understand. Some rust converting primer brushed on to the keel (after a wire brushing to knock off loose material) should hold up fine in fresh water for this season.
A screw jack (or even two) can help lift up the keel just a little bit so you can get it straightened out and the keel hanger lined back up. I would used a 5/16 tap with a little cutting oil on it to GENTLY chase the threads, just to clean them out and make sure there are no chips, rust, or other junk in the threads. After that use some acetone or denatured alcohol to squirt up into the hole with a squeeze bottle, this will clean out any cutting oil residue. Get a new set of 5/16" x 1.25" stainless bolts with lock washers... You can order them from Catalina Direct if you want, but Ace Hardware should have them. Use Blue (med strength) Loc Tite on the threads, 18 to 20 ft lbs is ideal, do not over torque them.
A screw jack (or even two) can help lift up the keel just a little bit so you can get it straightened out and the keel hanger lined back up. I would used a 5/16 tap with a little cutting oil on it to GENTLY chase the threads, just to clean them out and make sure there are no chips, rust, or other junk in the threads. After that use some acetone or denatured alcohol to squirt up into the hole with a squeeze bottle, this will clean out any cutting oil residue. Get a new set of 5/16" x 1.25" stainless bolts with lock washers... You can order them from Catalina Direct if you want, but Ace Hardware should have them. Use Blue (med strength) Loc Tite on the threads, 18 to 20 ft lbs is ideal, do not over torque them.
HOLY COW! That dent is really bad! The bunk is set WAY to high at the rear... that area is where the fiberglass is the most thin, so the weight of the boat pushed in on that small area where the bunk is too high, this is called point loading.
Echoing CD and trying to compare your photos to my trailer-- it appears to me without seeing the bow roller that your stern is too far aft. Additionally I see air under the center the center of the bunk board -- those center supports need to pick up their share of the hull in order to reduce the point load on the end of the bunk.
That is one serious version of oil canning on the hull--- as @CloudDiver mentioned the hull is extremely thin throughout that region. Hopefully you can press that out and reinforce as necessary. I can't think of any recent threads on repair to that area but no doubt someone has done it.
That is one serious version of oil canning on the hull--- as @CloudDiver mentioned the hull is extremely thin throughout that region. Hopefully you can press that out and reinforce as necessary. I can't think of any recent threads on repair to that area but no doubt someone has done it.
Since the boat has no barrier coat or bottom paint, its obviously a lifelong freshwater sailor and always dry sailed. The repair would be getting it off the trailer, placing stands away from the dent, push it out. Maybe 3 layers of 6 oz cloth will be plenty to reinforce on the inside. On the outside, just grind the gelcoat cracks with an engraving bit on a dremel and fill with gelcoat paste, and stick with dry sailing... If you wanted to do an anti-foul paint job, skip the gel coat paste and just use epoxy filler after grinding the cracks, the barrier coat the entire bottom followed by anti-fouling paint.
Either way, it appears at least two inches need to be taken off the rear vertical supports, the curve of the bunks will be more gradual and match the hull, evenly distributing the load.
Either way, it appears at least two inches need to be taken off the rear vertical supports, the curve of the bunks will be more gradual and match the hull, evenly distributing the load.
I want to get the dent out then repair the damaged area. How do I fix the point loading. BTW, the weldment thankfully is fine I tapped the hole got it cleaned out and can screw a bolt all the way up. Hurray! I'll do the things you recommended. Kinda know this part. The only thing weird is the pin isn't perpendicular, it's cockeyed, the hole is apparently cockeyed on the keel. Also, when I removed the bolts they were pretty much all loose as in not tight, easy to remove. Probably not how they should have been. Am I right?
Daydreamer, I see in your pics you have a cherry-picker which is a great tool to have for the C-22. To help you with the job of the keel, and to fix that dent, you'll want to take the boat off the trailer. You can search Craigslist for used boat stands, but in your neck of the woods they will be hard to find. You can build a cradle out of lumber, you'll see plenty of examples in pictures around this forum. You need to have the stronger bow-eye, it is a stainless U bolt with a backing block vs, a single post eye which is probably what you have. When installed properly, you can put a cradle or stands under the transom and lift the boat by the bow eye with the cherry picker enough to remove the trailer.
Partly the gap is due to me picking up the aft section with the lift. It's supporting the boat so I can get the keel lined up for when I put the new bolts in.
The pin isn't sitting right because rust has caused elongation or oval shape of the hole from rust. The only way to see for sure is to remove and lower the keel. It can be fixed by professional welding or by filling with epoxy mixed with high density microfibers, then adding a new stainless bushing (available from Catalina Direct).
You are correct, the bolts should not have been loose. They only need to be 'firm', 20 ft pounds max when tightened with a torque wrench. Blue Loctite liquid applied liberally on the threads will ensure lubrication when you tighten and dries waterproof so they don't back out over time.
I would highly recommend taking the boat off the trailer using the method I mentioned above. Have the keel professionally sand blasted. You only need a simple pallet built from scrap lumber to make a cradle that will move the keel around and load into your truck. You shouldn't be charged more than $80 to $120 for a yard to sand blast that keel. The same day you get it home from blasting, rinse it off with acetone and coat it with epoxy... you'll never have rust again after that. You can fill the hole with epoxy thickened with high density microfibers and then carefully drill a 1.25" hole perpendicular to the keel, then epoxy in the stainless bushing. Another option is to have a professional welder rebuild the eroded cast iron, but don't attempt this at home... welding cast iron is VERY sensitive! Because you are a freshwater sailor that launches from the trailer, you probably don't need a new barrier coat and anti-foul paint, just prime the keel with rustoleum enamel primer and then rustoleum enamel paint, easy and cheap.
The ring on the bow that the trailer winch hooks to. Take a picture of it and post it, we can tell you if its the 'old' style weak one, or the 'new' style strong one.