A question Please? I am considering the purchase of a 1989 Catalina 30 with Wing Keel. Although I do not plan on doing this much.... in the GSB it can get kind of shallow and occasionally we get hung up in the mud. Can anyone comment on the difference of un grounding a Wing Keel boat vs. a Standard Keel model. i.e. if grounded, can you move to the forward part of the boat to raise the wing off the mud. Bottom line, is it more difficult to un-ground with a wing? I know...first thing is watch those bouys.... Thanks and Regards, Bruce Murphy
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Pete Peterson
Reverse power
We have soft grounded a couple of times in unfamiliar marinas with our C320 wing keel, and were able to back off each time. We did not have to shift weight at all. (We also were moving slowly when we hit ground.) I think our maxprop helped a lot, because we were able to get a lot of reversing power quickly, which you may not get with a fixed prop. You may want to go with the smaller draft of the wing, and consider upgrading your prop to help get you out of grounding situations. BTW, we also discovered that our depth gauge is dead-on accurate, so that we can really rely on it.
We have soft grounded a couple of times in unfamiliar marinas with our C320 wing keel, and were able to back off each time. We did not have to shift weight at all. (We also were moving slowly when we hit ground.) I think our maxprop helped a lot, because we were able to get a lot of reversing power quickly, which you may not get with a fixed prop. You may want to go with the smaller draft of the wing, and consider upgrading your prop to help get you out of grounding situations. BTW, we also discovered that our depth gauge is dead-on accurate, so that we can really rely on it.
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Doug
GSB
Bruce, I have a shoal draft fin keel C30. Can't help you on the wing question, but would like to invite youto join the South Bay Catalina Yacht Club - http://sbcyc.tripod.com
Bruce, I have a shoal draft fin keel C30. Can't help you on the wing question, but would like to invite youto join the South Bay Catalina Yacht Club - http://sbcyc.tripod.com
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Warren
Know of any used Catalinas for sale
I have also been looking to purchase a Catalina 30, shoal draft here on LI. I have not seen a lot of boats being offered. If you have any leads or suggestions on where to look I would appreciate any help you could provide. I can be reached at wjaffe@optonline.net.
I have also been looking to purchase a Catalina 30, shoal draft here on LI. I have not seen a lot of boats being offered. If you have any leads or suggestions on where to look I would appreciate any help you could provide. I can be reached at wjaffe@optonline.net.
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Don
C30's for Sale
Have you looked at Yachtworld. Click on the related link to take you to www.Yachtworld.com
Have you looked at Yachtworld. Click on the related link to take you to www.Yachtworld.com
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A. K. Moser
Getting Unstuck
Just this morning I had a conversation with an owner of a wing keel. He said he really liked is a lot EXCEPT the time he ran aground in soft mud/clay. Said he really got stuck fast. They tried to heel the boat but, because it was a wing, it wouldn't heel. He also could not reverse out under his own power. He said he finally got free only after 2 power boats dragged him sternward. He also said that he'd run aground on rock but was able to pivot the boat off. I gather if you do run aground there are times when a wing might be an advantage and other times definitely not.
Just this morning I had a conversation with an owner of a wing keel. He said he really liked is a lot EXCEPT the time he ran aground in soft mud/clay. Said he really got stuck fast. They tried to heel the boat but, because it was a wing, it wouldn't heel. He also could not reverse out under his own power. He said he finally got free only after 2 power boats dragged him sternward. He also said that he'd run aground on rock but was able to pivot the boat off. I gather if you do run aground there are times when a wing might be an advantage and other times definitely not.
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Chuck
Stuck
I have friends who had a new Cataline 31 with a wing keel. They had to navigate shallow west coast Florida waters, including a shallow canal and channel where they lived. Their experience with a wing keel (their first) was not favorable. When they ran aground in mud or sand they said the wings acted like the blades of a Danforth anchor and held them fast. They couldn't back out of the mud or sand without assistance from other boats. Their experience made them reluctant to go with a winged keel unless absolutely necessary. For them it was since the depth in their home canal could be as low as 3.5 to 4 feet. I have a 30' TR with a fin keel on a deep lake. The two times that I have run aground in soft mud or sand, I just backed off easily. If you can go deep, go with the fin.
I have friends who had a new Cataline 31 with a wing keel. They had to navigate shallow west coast Florida waters, including a shallow canal and channel where they lived. Their experience with a wing keel (their first) was not favorable. When they ran aground in mud or sand they said the wings acted like the blades of a Danforth anchor and held them fast. They couldn't back out of the mud or sand without assistance from other boats. Their experience made them reluctant to go with a winged keel unless absolutely necessary. For them it was since the depth in their home canal could be as low as 3.5 to 4 feet. I have a 30' TR with a fin keel on a deep lake. The two times that I have run aground in soft mud or sand, I just backed off easily. If you can go deep, go with the fin.
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Bruce Murphy
Well.....I'm going for it!
It figures I get the negatives after I go to contract on this boat! Murphy's Law they say. Well, I do need to go with the shallow draft so the wing is the way to go for sure. Having the boat surveyed this Friday so pending that, we will be learning the ins and outs of wing keeling. I am interested to see what moving weight forward will do and quite possibly, we will need to be a little more carefull about our depth. I will keep this note posted as we move forward and I can officially register as a new owner! Great Site! Regards, Bruce
It figures I get the negatives after I go to contract on this boat! Murphy's Law they say. Well, I do need to go with the shallow draft so the wing is the way to go for sure. Having the boat surveyed this Friday so pending that, we will be learning the ins and outs of wing keeling. I am interested to see what moving weight forward will do and quite possibly, we will need to be a little more carefull about our depth. I will keep this note posted as we move forward and I can officially register as a new owner! Great Site! Regards, Bruce
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Ron
Wing-ing it
I have a C320 with a wing keel. I haven't grounded it -- yet! But I've thought about it often. The key has to be "defensive sailing". Going into harbors, coves, etc. I like the extra bit of safety margin between the keel & the bottom the shoal draft keel affords. I try to keep at least 5 ft between the keel and the bottom as indicated on the charts and my depth meter. The choice of that safety margin is a matter of your personal "pucker factor". Once the bottom rises to less than that, I try to extricate myself back to deeper water. If I do need to proceed over shallow waters, it's at a crawl under engine power with a bow lookout, and we stand ready to reverse in a hurry. Since my sailing involves coastal cruising & daysailing with friends, and not racing, the little differences in upwind pointing and extra leeway are not an issue. --Ron
I have a C320 with a wing keel. I haven't grounded it -- yet! But I've thought about it often. The key has to be "defensive sailing". Going into harbors, coves, etc. I like the extra bit of safety margin between the keel & the bottom the shoal draft keel affords. I try to keep at least 5 ft between the keel and the bottom as indicated on the charts and my depth meter. The choice of that safety margin is a matter of your personal "pucker factor". Once the bottom rises to less than that, I try to extricate myself back to deeper water. If I do need to proceed over shallow waters, it's at a crawl under engine power with a bow lookout, and we stand ready to reverse in a hurry. Since my sailing involves coastal cruising & daysailing with friends, and not racing, the little differences in upwind pointing and extra leeway are not an issue. --Ron
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Pete Peterson
You're going to get into situations
Bruce - Now that yu've made the decision to go with a wing keel, don't worry about it - you'll be all right with some common sense. Ron's comments about defensive sailing are right on, but you'll eventually come into situations where you'll be scraping along the bottom, and you should be prepared. My two grounding situations came right inside marinas on LI. Even though they asked me what my draft was when I made the reservations, and the cruising guide said they had plenty of depth, neither one seemed to have any idea what the depth of their channels and slips were (it was pretty clear that they catered to sport fishing boats and not sail boats). I never spent so much time at under 7 ft. depth in my life. (My common sense tells me never to go back there.)
Bruce - Now that yu've made the decision to go with a wing keel, don't worry about it - you'll be all right with some common sense. Ron's comments about defensive sailing are right on, but you'll eventually come into situations where you'll be scraping along the bottom, and you should be prepared. My two grounding situations came right inside marinas on LI. Even though they asked me what my draft was when I made the reservations, and the cruising guide said they had plenty of depth, neither one seemed to have any idea what the depth of their channels and slips were (it was pretty clear that they catered to sport fishing boats and not sail boats). I never spent so much time at under 7 ft. depth in my life. (My common sense tells me never to go back there.)
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Bruce Murphy
I wish I had 5' under the keel!!
Ron and Pete, Thanks for your quality input. Pretty much the truth though, if I have 5' under my keel, I got some deep water in the Great South Bay, on the south shore of Long Island, NY. Actually, we are used to it, when we see 1' to 2' left, then it's time to cut back. It's all pretty gradual so really there are no abrupt suprises. Only if we get way off track from where we know that "deep" water is! All in all, we will be fine, it's not like we're dragging the bottom all the time, it's just good to have a strategy if it happens! Going for survey tomorrow! Thanks/Regards, Bruce
Ron and Pete, Thanks for your quality input. Pretty much the truth though, if I have 5' under my keel, I got some deep water in the Great South Bay, on the south shore of Long Island, NY. Actually, we are used to it, when we see 1' to 2' left, then it's time to cut back. It's all pretty gradual so really there are no abrupt suprises. Only if we get way off track from where we know that "deep" water is! All in all, we will be fine, it's not like we're dragging the bottom all the time, it's just good to have a strategy if it happens! Going for survey tomorrow! Thanks/Regards, Bruce
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Jim Parks
Wing Keel Grounding
I have a new C-310 with a wing keel, once this Summer, while sailing in the shallows of Lake St. Clare, I managed to ground the boat. Fortunately, we were sailing slowly at the time. The boat stopped. We tried backing off with no luck. We then were able to spin the boat around the keel (used 3/4 power and nearly full lock steering) and were able to motor out the way came in.
I have a new C-310 with a wing keel, once this Summer, while sailing in the shallows of Lake St. Clare, I managed to ground the boat. Fortunately, we were sailing slowly at the time. The boat stopped. We tried backing off with no luck. We then were able to spin the boat around the keel (used 3/4 power and nearly full lock steering) and were able to motor out the way came in.
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Ron
Speaking of marinas...
I've had folks tell me that many mooring fields contain old mooring anchor blocks (very large, heavy chunks of concrete) w/o the telltale float above it. Here in Salem, MA harbor a few of my friends have bumped these uncharted objects while approaching the dock at low tide. I think the Coast Pilot document refers to this as "local knowledge." --Ron
I've had folks tell me that many mooring fields contain old mooring anchor blocks (very large, heavy chunks of concrete) w/o the telltale float above it. Here in Salem, MA harbor a few of my friends have bumped these uncharted objects while approaching the dock at low tide. I think the Coast Pilot document refers to this as "local knowledge." --Ron
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