WINDLASS

[The_Sailing_Pelican]

Hello again...
Quick question...
For a 1985 Pearson 303 which windlass would you recommend (tackle will be a combo of chain/nylon) im open to your suggestions and the why.
Thx again to all.
CRivera

 

[dlochner]

Depends on the anchor weight, rode weight, is there an anchor locker, etc. etc.

Most Windlass manufacturers have size guides, best to use their information. Here's one from Maxwell.

ShareFile

vetus.sharefile.com

 

[jssailem]

So you have a 30ft 10K Displacement hull mast head sloop...

What waters do you want to sail/anchor in?

Coral can be harsh on nylon rode. Anchoring in open bays during storms can be problematic for some anchors.

Clarity in your sailing ambitions/dreams will help in identifying the specifics.

If you are just looking for a SWAG... get 100 ft of chain, a 35lb or larger anchor, and 200 ft of rode. And a windlass to raise and lower the anchor gear.

 

[The_Sailing_Pelican]

So you have a 30ft 10K Displacement hull mast head sloop...

What waters do you want to sail/anchor in?

Coral can be harsh on nylon rode. Anchoring in open bays during storms can be problematic for some anchors.

Clarity in your sailing ambitions/dreams will help in identifying the specifics.

If you are just looking for a SWAG... get 100 ft of chain, a 35lb or larger anchor, and 200 ft of rode. And a windlass to raise and lower the anchor gear.

Im contemplating a 33lb Nordstar galvanized Bruce with chain and rope, waters will be the Bahamas.

 

[dlochner]

Im contemplating a 33lb Nordstar galvanized Bruce with chain and rope, waters will be the Bahamas.

The modern anchors, Spade, Rocna, Manson, and Mantus are far and away better anchors than a Bruce and much better than a Bruce knock off.

For more information than you might care to know about anchors and anchoring, check out Steve Goodwin's work on SV Panope YouTube Channel.

Loading…

www.youtube.com

 

[jssailem]

Others have shared the info about Steve Goodwin at S/V Panope.

He is an excellent resource. His ideas are highly relevant to the waters I sail in the PacificNW as he is doing his research on the types of seabed we enjoy and the changing currents we must address if we are to have a secure anchor.

I believe you can extrapolate most of his test results to the waters you want to cruise. But you should examine the conditions of your cruising waters and let them help guide you in your goal of safe cruising. The comment that a "knockoff" can result in different results is relevant and is reported in Steve's reviews.

Here is a link that discusses the waters of the Bahamas.

Anchoring in The Bahamas

Sitting Pretty Anchoring in strong tidal currents Many areas in The Bahamas make tricky work of anchoring, especially where reversing

southernboating.com

There are members here that have anchored there and they have real life experiences. I visited the Bahamas on a cruise ship and enjoyed a day of snorkeling around the island. I got to observe the mix of sand, coral, and grass beds that are discussed in the links.

Your anchoring depths are likely to be in waters 15-20 ft. a 5-1 scope (the article suggests 7-1) using the 20ft depth would suggest 100ft of chain plus a stretchy nylon rode say 30 ft to buffer the chain to boat connection.

An issue you will face, will be the desire to use a 5-1 scope when all the nearby boats are crowed in at 3-1 at a popular anchorage. This is when you must decide where it is safe for you to anchor. If you are safely anchored and someone comes in and drops next to you... Do not hesitate to communicate the issue to the unwanted guest that they dropped their anchor on top of yours. No one wants to wake at 2AM finding a boat bashing your side.

Clearly avoid coral and seagrass areas. The holding will be bad.

There are many boats with bruce anchors. The problem, as demonstrated by Steve, is when the anchor pulls out due to current or wind change the anchor can fail to reset.

Choose wisely.
My anchor is a Mantus M1 galvanized. I like the Spade as well. 105 ft of chain helps to keep the anchor set.

 

[dlochner]

The Bahamas and the Florida Keys have similar geology, the islands and the Banks are limestone. In both places the bottom is mostly sand over solid limestone. The quality of the anchorage is dependent on sand depth. In some areas there are only a few inches of sand, in others there may be several feet of sand. Obviously, deeper sand is better. In some areas, like Manjack Cay in the Abacos sand depth will vary within the same anchorage area.

Anchoring in eel grass is difficult and definitely frowned upon as eel grass and sea grass are feeding grounds for manatees and turtles. Anchoring and dragging the chain across the boat destroys the feeding grounds. In some areas, like the anchorage in Allan-Pensacola Cay the bottom is covered in sea grass, however there are a half dozen or so circles where the grass has been eroded, anchoring in those circles is fine, anchoring outside of them is frowned on.

Most cruisers prefer all chain rodes for several reasons. With all chain it is possible to safely short scope in a crowded anchorage if the anchorage is protected with good holding. We had to do that a couple of times, especially in Boot Key Harbor in Marathon. Another reason is swinging. A boat on an all chain rode will pivot on the rode before it starts to swing, a boat on a rope rode will start swinging as soon as the current or wind shifts. In a tight anchorage it is better and safer if all the boats are swinging in about the same manner. If one boat swings faster than the others, the possibility of a collision increases. Boats with rope rodes are more likely to wrap the rode around the keel under certain conditions, this rarely occurs with chain rodes because the chain drops straight down.

In 200 nights of anchoring up and down the East Coast and Bahamas, our Spade was wonderful. Once it was set, it never dragged. Setting was incredibly easy, drop it pay out scope and a little reverse, it was set. The only time we ran into difficulty was in Biscayne Bay were the sand was quite thin over limestone and one place in the Abacos were the harbor had a thick bed of weeds.

Our ground tackle is all chain with a 44 lb Spade anchor backed up with a 15lb Fortress. Our windlass is Maxwell VW 1500. We slept well and my back never complained.

 

[Alan Gomes]

Boats with rope rodes are more likely to wrap the rode around the keel under certain conditions, this rarely occurs with chain rodes because the chain drops straight down.

Easily solved with a kellet. (This does not address your other points, though.)

 

[dLj]

I used to use chain rode combos but after going to 100% chain with a rode snubber, I'll never go back. I would only go to a chain rode combo if I was anchoring only in areas where I know I'll have no chaffe. Any anchorage with potential rocks, coral or any other abrasive underwater object makes me very nervous having line in the mix. Plus the chain with a rode snubber seems to work much better as winds and waves come up.

I had a night at anchor where the boat behind me went to the beach and was destroyed. My anchor held very solidly - all chain - only way I'll go anymore...

dj

 

[Richard19068]

I used to use chain rode combos but after going to 100% chain with a rode snubber, I'll never go back. I would only go to a chain rode combo if I was anchoring only in areas where I know I'll have no chaffe. Any anchorage with potential rocks, coral or any other abrasive underwater object makes me very nervous having line in the mix. Plus the chain with a rode snubber seems to work much better as winds and waves come up.

I had a night at anchor where the boat behind me went to the beach and was destroyed. My anchor held very solidly - all chain - only way I'll go anymore...

dj

All chain is great, especially if you have a 20,000 pound boat. The OP (and I) have boats closer to 10,000 pounds. That makes it a bit less practical to carry all chain, especially if one might have to anchor in depths of 50 feet or more which, at least around here, is not that unusual.

 

[dLj]

All chain is great, especially if you have a 20,000 pound boat. The OP (and I) have boats closer to 10,000 pounds. That makes it a bit less practical to carry all chain, especially if one might have to anchor in depths of 50 feet or more which, at least around here, is not that unusual.

That is a long way down to anchor. 250 feet if you go 5:1.

The OP said Bahamas. Are the anchorages there that deep? I thought the difficulty there was skinny water and abrasive possibilities...

Certainly on a boat that size and looking to anchor at those depths, you'd have to go to chain with rode on that boat...

dj

 

[dlochner]

There is no one right answer when it comes to most things sailing. Anchoring is no different. The anchor and rode must match the conditions in which the boat is anchoring and the boat it is on. In Southern Florida and the Bahamas anchoring is in the 10-20 foot depth range.

There is also the issue of what everyone else in the anchorage is using. When choosing an spot to anchor in a crowded area I always looked to see what rode other boats were using and tried to stay away from boats with rope rodes, because they will swing differently than our boat.

Yes carrying chain weight on a smaller lighter boat will affect performance, however when cruising that is an easy compromise to make. Feeling safe at anchor in a blow is a lot more valuable than a little less hobby horsing when sailing and the lost of a few tenths of a knot of speed. Have you ever heard of a cruising boat lowering their waterline?

A major advantage of an all chain rode is simply weight. In 10' of water with 5:1 scope I have about 100 lbs of iron on the bottom, in 20 feet I have about 200 lbs. The weight goes along way towards keeping the boat where it belongs.

 

[Alan Gomes]

A major advantage of an all chain rode is simply weight. In 10' of water with 5:1 scope I have about 100 lbs of iron on the bottom, in 20 feet I have about 200 lbs. The weight goes along way towards keeping the boat where it belongs.

This is doubtful. It would appear that the weight contributes little to holding when the conditions get really snotty.

Rode optimizations (Rocna Knowledge Base)

kb.rocna.com

 

[dLj]

This is doubtful. It would appear that the weight contributes little to holding when the conditions get really snotty.

Rode optimizations (Rocna Knowledge Base)

kb.rocna.com

While the catenary effect becomes less important as the forces increase, as you point out, it is very useful in less extreme conditions.

From my perspective, the biggest advantage is not just the catenary, but the resistance to chaffe and rode abrasion. While watching my rodes work in the conditions where the catenary is not the advantage, the smallest imperfections where the rode is riding become huge problems with rode, whereas with chain that is greatly minimized.

I have two anchor systems in my bow. My primary which is all chain, and my secondary which is rode and chain. I had to drop my primary at one point so it was gone from my boat. My next anchorage I was forced to use my secondary anchor system. Watching it work in a medium - not highly stressed - situation lead me to decide I will never depend upon a chain/rode combination ever again.

Your milage may vary. That was my direct observation and experience.

dj

 

[Alan Gomes]

While the catenary effect becomes less important as the forces increase, as you point out, it is very useful in less extreme conditions.

From my perspective, the biggest advantage is not just the catenary, but the resistance to chaffe and rode abrasion. While watching my rodes work in the conditions where the catenary is not the advantage, the smallest imperfections where the rode is riding become huge problems with rode, whereas with chain that is greatly minimized.

I have two anchor systems in my bow. My primary which is all chain, and my secondary which is rode and chain. I had to drop my primary at one point so it was gone from my boat. My next anchorage I was forced to use my secondary anchor system. Watching it work in a medium - not highly stressed - situation lead me to decide I will never depend upon a chain/rode combination ever again.

Your milage may vary. That was my direct observation and experience.

dj

I believe everything you have said here is consistent with the observations in that article.

 

[Screen Saver]

Contrary to what 99% of the world would tell you and Im sure there will be much opposition to my statement, I would buy all stainless chain. Knowing what I know now after 15 plus years, living on board and 150,000nm. Manson supreme anchor is the only anchor to have. While I have a lewmar winch, i would look more carefully at the failures they can have and repairs. The two points with lewmar, is you can NOT buy brushes for the motor and now they wont (or trying hard not to) sell just the motor. They want you to buy motor and gear box, just becuase some brushes have worn out. Thats just BS.... Lucky for me I had a panic when I started cruising with a brush that go stuck, then I found I couldnt buy brushes (then my lewmar was near new), so while in KL I had some made. Tweleve years later (2 days ago) i used one. Same applies to my water maker. for $5 part they want you to spend thousands. Next thing is the windlass gear box. I actualy had new gears made for mine, again cause you cant buy them. So if your doing a lot of anchoring for many years check the supply of parts.

 

[dLj]

Contrary to what 99% of the world would tell you and Im sure there will be much opposition to my statement, I would buy all stainless chain.

I'm not going to argue with you, simply put some numbers out there.

3/8 grade 43 (high strength) galvanized chain has a strength of 5,400 pounds and costs $7.60 a foot
3/8 316 stainless chain has a strength of 3500 pounds and costs $42.40 a foot.

I'm sure you can find other prices, those are straight from McMaster. they are put out there just for comparison.

So I don't quite get double the strength for the same size chain, and the stainless costs about 5X the cost of the galvanized chain. I can buy a lot of galvanized chain for what I'd spend on stainless, and it's stronger. There is no greater reliability, and some will say that the stainless is actually less reliable. As an FYI, 316 stainless steel is not a material that is considered acceptable for submersed use in sea water from a metallurgical point of view. Hot dipped galvanized is.

You can buy stainless if you want. But I have better things to spend my money on....

Knowing what I know now after 15 plus years, living on board and 150,000nm. Manson supreme anchor is the only anchor to have.

I don't think there is one single anchor that is "the best". I think all modern anchors are far better then the earlier anchors and that you should get the name brand, not a knock-off....

While I have a lewmar winch, i would look more carefully at the failures they can have and repairs. The two points with lewmar, is you can NOT buy brushes for the motor and now they wont (or trying hard not to) sell just the motor. They want you to buy motor and gear box, just becuase some brushes have worn out. Thats just BS.... Lucky for me I had a panic when I started cruising with a brush that go stuck, then I found I couldnt buy brushes (then my lewmar was near new), so while in KL I had some made. Tweleve years later (2 days ago) i used one. Same applies to my water maker. for $5 part they want you to spend thousands. Next thing is the windlass gear box. I actualy had new gears made for mine, again cause you cant buy them. So if your doing a lot of anchoring for many years check the supply of parts.

This is a great point, but is very difficult to assess. Especially over time. A supplier may sell spare parts at the time of purchase, but may not sell them at the time of needing them.

dj

 

[American_Mainsail]

Contrary to what 99% of the world would tell you and Im sure there will be much opposition to my statement, I would buy all stainless chain. Knowing what I know now after 15 plus years, living on board and 150,000nm. Manson supreme anchor is the only anchor to have. While I have a lewmar winch, i would look more carefully at the failures they can have and repairs. The two points with lewmar, is you can NOT buy brushes for the motor and now they wont (or trying hard not to) sell just the motor. They want you to buy motor and gear box, just becuase some brushes have worn out. Thats just BS.... Lucky for me I had a panic when I started cruising with a brush that go stuck, then I found I couldnt buy brushes (then my lewmar was near new), so while in KL I had some made. Tweleve years later (2 days ago) i used one. Same applies to my water maker. for $5 part they want you to spend thousands. Next thing is the windlass gear box. I actualy had new gears made for mine, again cause you cant buy them. So if your doing a lot of anchoring for many years check the supply of parts.

I'd also like to know more on where you're coming from here. Are you just getting more service life than galvanized chain since you spend a lot of time on the hook?

 

[Captain Larry-DH]

Easily solved with a kellet. (This does not address your other points, though.)

That only works in mild winds. Not really helpful in strong winds with adverse current. Plus a kellet complicates deployment. You’re always better off with chain, or to place that extra weight in the anchor itself

 

[Alan Gomes]

That only works in mild winds. Not really helpful in strong winds with adverse current. Plus a kellet complicates deployment. You’re always better off with chain, or to place that extra weight in the anchor itself

You misread what I wrote. I was responding to the specific problem of a rope rode wrapping around the keel when there is no to little wind. In strong winds the rode is stretched out and wrapping around the keel is not an issue.