Windlass kinda limp

[MJWarner]

We had a lightning strike before we got our new to us boat. The PO's insurance is covering and we are currently living in the yard while the work is underway.
Today we dropped the anchor (60lb) on the ground and attempted to use the windlass to bring it back on board. The idea was to test both the cockpit control as well as the bow control.
We just put new batteries (4 in the bank) in as a result of the strike and we haven't used them for anything and they are fully charged.
The windlass won't put out enough "oomph" to haul the anchor up.
We were able to bring it on board w/ the manual handle.
Could this be a result of the strike? I find it hard to believe that the PO would have had an arrangement by which he could not retrieve an anchor straight up off the bottom.
What else should we be looking at?
We plan to contact the PO on Monday to see his take on this, but were wondering if anyone here had any ideas.
It's a Simpson Lawrence 900 series.

 

[gpd955]

How old is the windlass motor? Judging by your post, it's the first time you used the windlass and you're not sure if it was like that prior to the strike.

 

[Steve Dion]

I also think the rule is you are supposed to have the engine running when retrieving the anchor.

That does not discount the fact that you either don't have enough amps or the windlass is not strong enough.

When I was looking for an anchor they sized it at 25% of it's load capacity. This would calculate a Lewmar 700 at about 175 lbs. You would need to add the weight of the anchor and the chain (estimate chain at about 1-1.5lbs/ft). This calculation is only for the amount of weight that the windlass would be lifting. If you have 300 lbs of chain, I doubt that you would ever be lifting the entire length at one time.

My guess is the windlass is probably in need of a rebuild or replacement.

 

[MJWarner]

Windlass probably is original to the boat, sooo 1989. Don't know if it has EVER been serviced, like I said call goes out to PO tomorrow about history or problems.
True, this is the first time we have tested or tried it, so we don't know how it worked prior.
Can't run engine while we are on the hard, but I would think a brand new 4 battery bank would at least try to haul the chain up. This balked before the anchor shank even left the ground.
Thought maybe there might be something DUH obvious that would jump out at someone here... we are first timers with a power windlass, so it's all new to us.

 

[zeehag]

what size is windlass??is over 1000? if not.a 60 pound anchor willnot come up so goood, lady! is why i got meself a manual one. it never fails..my electric is 1000---i dont trust it with my amount of chain and anchor and alladat..... see if that may be the deal......also should do anchor with engine on....LOL....lemme know what ye find....and what make is it???

 

[woodster]

you may want to check and CLEAN every conection in the cable runs...both the poss and the neg as well and make sure they are tight ......you may have a bad connection some where in the run ...use a ss wire brush on all sides of the connections and see if that helps....just a thought

regards
woody

 

[MJWarner]

It's a Lewmar Simpson Lawrence 900, Manual says it should handle 900lb pull. So it should be able to haul a 60lb anchor and 11feet of chain straight up at least once.
Boat on hard so I can't run the engine, but I'm not USING the windlass, just ran a test to see of the controls worked and the windlass motor was operational. Was amazed that it bogs under the apparent weight of just the chain hanging over the bow with the anchor still laying on the ground.Had to haul it with the manual handle.
Will try to run through all the cables tomorrow, and see they are cleaned and tight and sound.
We will also be calling Lewmar to get their take on all this.
Looks like we may just be seeing a shiny new H2 on the foredeck.
See, there's always an upside. It's only money....

 

[Sailinnsc]

Looks like it should pull about 50 amps under full load....

If it is not lifting and pulling lots of amps i would suspect a field winding is bad...

You should be ablt to pull it and get a motor shop or electric shop to load test it...

Sailinnsc

 

[Steve Dion]

I would agree that it should lift the anchor.

I think checking out the cable/switches from the source to the windlass would be in order. I would be sure that each and every connection is cleaned and secured. Don't forget to check the switches too.

 

[Ron20324]

Did you tighten the clutch?

 

[zeehag]

mj--i LOVE my bronze manual one....never fails me. of course is new to me, but i havent ever had a fail on a manual windlass...... i hope this works out for ye and all is well.

 

[tommays]

Bad connections or long OLD battery cables would be the first thing to check

I would start simple and see what voltage is geeing delivered AT the windlass as close to it as possible

 

[captmikem]

First, you can run your engine while on the hard, simply close the seacock for the intake, open the sea strainer and stick a freshwater hose in it. You will get some fresh water in the bilge from the overflowing sea strainer but bilges like to be washed anyway.

Before you buy a new windlass, measure the voltage at the windlass when someone steps on the button, it should be a good 12.4 volts or better under load. If not just go back connection to connection and find the culprit. If you do have good voltage, check the brushes. on the windlass motor. if you can bring it up manually then all mechanical is working fine. That is a good windlass and you should not have to replace it.

 

[Captain-jerry]

On my 41 O/I, the Ideal Windlass would not pull it's own weight... turns out it had lost it's grease in the gear box. Main gear teeth were thin like paper. Ideal wanted my first born to fix it. Found parts at salvage yard & runs great now!

 

[Don12364]

In 2005 I tested electric windlasses for Practical Boat Owner - the UK's largest selling sailing mag.
The Simpson Lawrence model tested was the vertical type V2 (700 watt motor).
Using rope on the warping drum it was capable of pulling 539 Kgf (1188 lbf) before the motor stalled.
The voltage was 11.0 V and the current 192 amps (momentarily).

When tested with chain it only managed 343 Kgf (756 lbf) at 11.4 V and drew 144 amps before the clutch on the gypsy slipped like billy oh. So I needed to tighten it with a wrench with a 3 foot long tube over the handle (90 lb ft) but it still couldn't achieve the maker's claimed static pull.

Under these conditions of slippage the two halves of the clutch galled up badly because the two 3/16" diameter screws holding both halves of the gypsy together stretched and allowed the chain to part them slightly.

Though this pull was nowhere near the claimed load it seemed plenty for most applications, though the SL Sprint on my H376 staggers and stalls in raising me up the mast.
For the pundits I still have a spreadsheet with all the data. PM me if you need it.

 

[Bill Roosa]

Check the voltage delivered to the motor (at the motor terminals) with the motor running. if it is not up to 12ish volts then you have either bad cables or bad batteries. You cannot just test the voltage without a load as all that will tell you is there is a connection. You have to have the some load on it to have current flowing and experience the voltage drops from the long wire run and the connections.
99.44% of all electrical problems are corroded connections.
Also, a bad field coil or commutator will be evidenced by a pulsating pull on the chain as the dead coil rotates into operation or a complete failure to start if the dead coil is the one engaged at starting. You say the motor turns so I'm thinking that the majority of the coils or commutator are OK if not completely sound.
Everything you are describing is low supply voltage and it is very likly that all you have is a corroded connection or kinked cable somewhere.
I'm assuming the unit has a high amp solenoid box which is wired to your bow and helm low amp switches. In addition to the external connections you will want to check the voltage drop across the high amp side of the solenoid. it may have corrosion also. Just measure voltage across the high amp input and output with the motor running under a load. You should get no more than 0.2 volts drop across the unit.

 

[Alex Dare]

Since this is a new boat to you, just a thought. In many cases an separate dedicated battery is hidden someplace forward close to the windlass to power it. Probably bad motor, brushes, connections but figured I'd throw that out.

 

[dah]

Check the wire size. You may be voltage deprived.

Since an electric windlass draws a significant amount of electricity, any problem with the supply of that energy would effect its performance. First off, check the wire size between the battery and the windlass. Secondly, check each and every connection in the circut. If I may suggest, remake any crimp connections or terminals and if not waterproof connectors, replace them with waterproof connectors.

David Hoyt
Catalina 27 #65
Sovereignty
ahsovereignty.com

 

[kloudie1]

I agree with current supply suggestions.. As Alex has mentioned the motor brushes and springs, in addition to wires and connections.. The wire and connection idea is the most likely/most common trouble spot.... Could have worn brushes, or springs that are weak, causing poor connection at the commuitator.. Not familiar with that unit but many have brush ports where you can check the brushes without a disassembly??

 

[CarlN]

Agree with the folks above. Don't even bother checking - assume the connections need cleaning. Further, assume every connection on the boat could use cleaning. A morning spent cleaning and tightening connections will save untold hours over the next six months diagnosing electrical problems. It's also a great way to get to know the electrical system of your boat.

-- Turn the power off before starting.
-- Use a good contact cleaner. My favorite is DeoxIT
-- Gently flex each wire near the connector. A "cracking" feel means the wire is corroded under the cover
-- Any connection to a motor should have a lockwasher to keep it from vibrating loose
-- Badly corroded connectors should be replaced. You'll need a good crimper. See MainSail's thoughts on this.
-- Be sure to clean the ground connection to the diesel. Source of many frustrating problems.
-- When you replaced the batteries were the cables replaced? If they look ratty, it's worth replacing.

While your windlass problem could be a bad motor, the symptoms are exactly what you'd get from a corroded connection that can conduct a little power but not serious amperage.

Carl