Why not put a 9.9 outboard on my 320?

[Ted10028]

Get a bow thruster, as DArcy recommended. Personally, I would practice, practice, practice. Learn how your boat behaves. Learn how to use prop walk to your advantage. Learn how to pivot the boat while moving astern. Practice, practice, practice. None of us learned small boat handling skills overnight.

I'm sure those are good ideas, and I do appreciate the effort. But don't forget there are 7 advantage to having the second motor . I have a feeling that no matter how much I practiced tight maneuvering in a decent wind it is not a skill i'm going to master any time soon.
I watched a you tube yesterday. The guy said a good rule is not to go faster than the speed at which you would be comfortable hitting something. He was creeping along dead slow but with no wind whatsoever. With wind the world is a different place altogether, especially for me.

 

[Captain Larry-DH]

I'm sure those are good ideas, and I do appreciate the effort. But don't forget there are 7 advantage to having the second motor . I have a feeling that no matter how much I practiced tight maneuvering in a decent wind it is not a skill i'm going to master any time soon.
I watched a you tube yesterday. The guy said a good rule is not to go faster than the speed at which you would be comfortable hitting something. He was creeping along dead slow but with no wind whatsoever. With wind the world is a different place altogether, especially for me.

You’re right. A crosswind or side current changes everything. Do you know how to use spring lines? Lots of good youtube vids on that. Do you sail with crew who have an interest in handling lines?

 

[LloydB]

I agree if your diesel fails an outboard could get you back over the bar to the dock in a reasonable time. However if you want extreme control I think that you must make preparations then practice the new skills that have been learned by doing them. For example you might look at this guys preparation:

 

[kappykaplan]

Ted, I've said it before - none of us learned our small boat handling skills overnight. As others have recommended, get an instructor or seasoned sailor to go out with you and practice, practice, practice. If you know how the boat handles/maneuvers in various conditions, you'll be able to deal with almost anything. I had my boat for three years before developed the nerve to go out solo. Got into big trouble coming back in - didn't hurt my boat or any others. Moved to a new slip with more room to maneuver and practiced, practiced, practiced.

 

[dLj]

@Ted10028 - several times I've listened to folks ask you why are you asking us things and then telling us you have a better way... I've not entered into these discussions as you've had plenty of good advice, which you seem to trump with "I watched a YouTube video...blah blah blah.."

It's your boat. Do what you want.

But just an observation - YouTube is steeped in bullsh!t. Some of us have already waded through enough of them to understand the significant limitations - and benefits - that YouTube provides.

Myself, and numerous others on this forum, could show you how to maneuver your specific boat with an inboard engine very well, in my opinion far better, than you can with an outboard auxillary engine. But you can't teach this through a YouTube video. You have to feel it and be taught hands on. Videos don't work for this specific training.

I've turned my boat around 180 degrees in pretty much the length of my boat, with cross winds, currents and tides. I've docked in all sorts of adverse conditions - as many of the folks on this forum will have also done. Many of us have gone through the learning curve and realize both what it takes to learn and have done the work to get there.

But for sure, it's your boat, do what you want.

dj

 

[DArcy]

I'm sure those are good ideas, and I do appreciate the effort. But don't forget there are 7 advantage to having the second motor . I have a feeling that no matter how much I practiced tight maneuvering in a decent wind it is not a skill i'm going to master any time soon.
I watched a you tube yesterday. The guy said a good rule is not to go faster than the speed at which you would be comfortable hitting something. He was creeping along dead slow but with no wind whatsoever. With wind the world is a different place altogether, especially for me.

I have handled all kinds of boats from sailboards to square rigged, full keel ships as well as small outboards to inboard cruisers. A Catalina 320 is a sweet boat to handle. My boat has a long fin keel with a skeg hung rudder and a lot of windage. I can turn the boat around in a fairway that is about 1.5x the boat length. I have done this with a stiff wind blowing. Granted, not an easy task but it is doable. My boat does not like to back to starboard but that is the way I need to turn to back out of my slip. I learned how to do it with a strong burst of reverse to get moving then back down to idle to avoid the prop walk. With some practice you will be amazed at what you can do. As for your 7 advantages, I'd knock that down to 1:

1) extreme control in reverse - Nope, this is just not true
2) steering control if main steering lost - Nope, it's a sailboat with a big rudder. The main rudder will be better than an outboard with some practice
3) alternative if Yanmar has mechanical , electrical, cooling problem, - Ok, this is true
4) alternative if no gas, - I really don't know what this means. If you have no gas, then sail
5) alternative if dead batteries. - I have a house and starter bank. If the starter battery dies I switch to the house bank. In 27 years of boat ownership I have not had both die, and this really should be lumped into 3, electrical problem.
6) extreme control in forward - Nope, this is just not true

You seem to have convinced yourself that you want to add an outboard. If that makes you happy then go for it; just be realistic about it.

 

[Ted10028]

I have handled all kinds of boats from sailboards to square rigged, full keel ships as well as small outboards to inboard cruisers. A Catalina 320 is a sweet boat to handle. My boat has a long fin keel with a skeg hung rudder and a lot of windage. I can turn the boat around in a fairway that is about 1.5x the boat length. I have done this with a stiff wind blowing. Granted, not an easy task but it is doable. My boat does not like to back to starboard but that is the way I need to turn to back out of my slip. I learned how to do it with a strong burst of reverse to get moving then back down to idle to avoid the prop walk. With some practice you will be amazed at what you can do. As for your 7 advantages, I'd knock that down to 1:

1) extreme control in reverse - Nope, this is just not true
2) steering control if main steering lost - Nope, it's a sailboat with a big rudder. The main rudder will be better than an outboard with some practice
3) alternative if Yanmar has mechanical , electrical, cooling problem, - Ok, this is true
4) alternative if no gas, - I really don't know what this means. If you have no gas, then sail
5) alternative if dead batteries. - I have a house and starter bank. If the starter battery dies I switch to the house bank. In 27 years of boat ownership I have not had both die, and this really should be lumped into 3, electrical problem.
6) extreme control in forward - Nope, this is just not true

You seem to have convinced yourself that you want to add an outboard. If that makes you happy then go for it; just be realistic about it.

Not sure why you say an outboard that you could turn perpendicular to length of boat would not give you far more turning in reverse than Yanmar propeller pushing water forward???

 

[Don S/V ILLusion]

Not sure why you say an outboard that you could turn perpendicular to length of boat would not give you far more turning in reverse than Yanmar propeller pushing water forward???

Because you never want to try making a tight turn with the prop engaged. Plus, if you have to make a tight turn quickly, you failed to anticipate the turn properly. Listen to the others here, don’t be so quick to buy into the flawed logic that there are “7 advantages” to an outboard nonsense.

 

[dlochner]

Not sure why you say an outboard that you could turn perpendicular to length of boat would not give you far more turning in reverse than Yanmar propeller pushing water forward???

Because you have very little understanding of boat handling with sail boats. Basically, you don't know what you don't know and think you know way more than you do know.

 

[Ted10028]

Because you never want to try making a tight turn with the prop engaged. Plus, if you have to make a tight turn quickly, you failed to anticipate the turn properly. Listen to the others here, don’t be so quick to buy into the flawed logic that there are “7 advantages” to an outboard nonsense.

Sure, but getting into the position where you can turn prop off is going to be far easier when you can turn prop 180 degrees versus a stationary prop. Also, I am planning, with the outboard, to course correct for a windy turn that I failed to anticipate and calculate properly.

 

[Ted10028]

I agree if your diesel fails an outboard could get you back over the bar to the dock in a reasonable time. However if you want extreme control I think that you must make preparations then practice the new skills that have been learned by doing them. For example you might look at this guys preparation:

here's a good one:

 

[DArcy]

Not sure why you say an outboard that you could turn perpendicular to length of boat would not give you far more turning in reverse than Yanmar propeller pushing water forward???

One big concern is you will have to leave the helm to use the outboard. If you really want "extreme control", install a bow thruster SS340 Bow Thruster

The price of the bow thruster is about 25% more than an outboard but will give you much better control while increasing the value of your boat rather than decreasing as an outboard would. I personally would not buy a Catalina 320 with an outboard mounted to the back.

One reason I am being so persistent about this is an experience I had a few years ago. I was sitting on a friend's boat, a few down the dock from mine. A fellow in a 22ish foot sailboat with an outboard was coming down the main harbour, making the turn into the inner harbour which is right where my friend's boat is. Another boat was coming out of the inner harbour at that time and the fellow on the 22ish footer didn't see this outgoing boat right away. At the last minute he jammed the outboard into reverse and tried to steer away using the outboard, but didn't coordinate his movement with the main rudder, and ended up drifting down on us on my friend's boat. We fended him off, no damage, but I muttered under my breath "oh no, he is heading towards my boat now". I think the fellow might have heard me so he jammed the motor into forward and spun it to maneuver away at which point the outboard flipped off it's bracket, did a pirouette and disappeared under the water into the depths of the harbour.

The entire thing was rather comical, and there was no damage other than the loss of the outboard. I went aboard my boat, helped him along side until he gathered himself up and he pulled out a paddle and went on his way. He thought he could maneuver the boat using the direction of the outboard without consideration to the direction of the main rudder. That clearly did not work. He was better off with the paddle than the outboard.

 

[Ted10028]

One big concern is you will have to leave the helm to use the outboard. If you really want "extreme control", install a bow thruster SS340 Bow Thruster

The price of the bow thruster is about 25% more than an outboard but will give you much better control while increasing the value of your boat rather than decreasing as an outboard would. I personally would not buy a Catalina 320 with an outboard mounted to the back.

One reason I am being so persistent about this is an experience I had a few years ago. I was sitting on a friend's boat, a few down the dock from mine. A fellow in a 22ish foot sailboat with an outboard was coming down the main harbour, making the turn into the inner harbour which is right where my friend's boat is. Another boat was coming out of the inner harbour at that time and the fellow on the 22ish footer didn't see this outgoing boat right away. At the last minute he jammed the outboard into reverse and tried to steer away using the outboard, but didn't coordinate his movement with the main rudder, and ended up drifting down on us on my friend's boat. We fended him off, no damage, but I muttered under my breath "oh no, he is heading towards my boat now". I think the fellow might have heard me so he jammed the motor into forward and spun it to maneuver away at which point the outboard flipped off it's bracket, did a pirouette and disappeared under the water into the depths of the harbour.

The entire thing was rather comical, and there was no damage other than the loss of the outboard. I went aboard my boat, helped him along side until he gathered himself up and he pulled out a paddle and went on his way. He thought he could maneuver the boat using the direction of the outboard without consideration to the direction of the main rudder. That clearly did not work. He was better off with the paddle than the outboard.

Fun story . Thanks. But the bow thruster ( which would be great) is $5K and probably $10k installed. I would do it myself if I could put the boat in my driveway or work on it at the boat yard but those day are long gone. Interestingly, my boat yard has been in messy litigation for years because the land is so contaminated from folks like me sanding off bottom paint for decades. Also, a new Chinese outboard is about $1000, a nice Honda 9.9 is about $3000. If you didn't like the outboard on a 320 you could always take it off. Cant see how it would decrease value. Lot of folks have dinghy motors and BBQ's hanging off railings.

 

[jssailem]

A way not yet considered would be to re imagine your boat. Take the single engine out and install twin engines with twin counter rotating props. They work extremely well to control power boats. You can put one in forward and the other in reverse giving you the power to rotate within your own length. You would also have redundant prop power.

Take it one step further and install twin electric engines. Not only would you have twin engine power but you would be a Green Example of the responsible boat owner.

 

[FastOlson]

The way the OP's question keeps being repeated with no evidence of learning from reading replies, seems to indicate a test being conducted of an AI chatbot.
We have been fished!

(Kind of reminds me of the old days when a group of university students would concoct odd behavioral family situations and try to trick the "Dear Abby" columnist! At least the students were human...)

 

[DArcy]

Cant see how it would decrease value.

Because anyone that would mount an outboard to the back of a Catalina 320 probably does not know how to handle or maintain a boat. It is a big red flag.

You asked "Why not..." You got a bunch of answers. Your boat, your call.

 

[LloydB]

It looks to me like you really want a PWC. Why a sailboat?

 

[marcham]

When an outboard auxiliary is used on a sailboat, I find it much easier to control the boat with the steering locked and with controls in the cockpit. Having to reach overboard to steer / throttle / shift is a complete nightmare and leads to docking oopsies.

In reverse, you'll have to hold on to the tiller/ wheel, the outboard tiller, reach for the shifter, etc.... you have 3 hands and a 5 foot neck to see where the dock is?

Maybe OP wants / needs a MacGregor.

 

[SBO Police Bot]

OK, Gentlemen, although the OP has been a bit difficult and resistant to taking some very good advice, let's remember this is SBO not SA.

If the SBO AI finds the OP to be a troll, he will face the ultimate consequence.

Thanks for your cooperation.

 

[Tally Ho]

As so many people have said, there are major challenges to really using an outboard on a sailboat designed for an inboard.

For me, the best use case is if the main auxiliary dies….at least I could have a little forward motion to push the boat. But despite that value, it might be easier to sail back to the harbor and get a tow into the marina from there…I have done that twice…my buddy towed me in to the fuel dock and it didn’t cost me a dime.

The disadvantages, expressed by many, just do not outweigh the very limited advantages, IMHO.

Look at the cabling on a MacGregor 26X or M that allows the use of the outboard to drive and steer the boat (and the dual rudders to help steer) and you will get an appreciation for what it would take to set up a sailboat to utilize An outboard effectively.

I would prefer to:
1) Make sure my boat/aux is in good operating condition
2) Make sure my batteries are charged and maintained, and I know how to use the house bank to start the engine If the starter battery goes flat.
3) Practice my docking maneuvers and have plans for serious weather issues so I can safely get my boat into the slip.

Just my 2 cents.


Greg