Which keel

CloudDiver · Mar 25, 2016

Lots of things to consider... If draft is your primary concern then most people would advise that the swing keel is better. I don't think that is wise advice since you shouldn't sail with the keel up, only motor. With the wing keel only adding 6 inches of additional draft over the wing keel in the up position I think that is a better choice because you can still 'sail' and still have the choice to motor in the shallows as well. I think having a good depth sounder and accurate charts/plotter is what will keep you sailing safe in the shallows.
For maintenance concerns you hit all the right points considering the lead wing keel vs. the cast iron swing keel. If your intent is to have the boat in the water full time you will have far less maintenance issues with a lead keel, less thru hulls, no winch or winch cable to deal with. I am one of the owners who has done a full refurbishment on a cast iron keel, check my restoration thread for details. If you want to do a complete and reliable job to ensure a sealed keel that won't rust in the future you have to be prepared to remove the keel, have it sand blasted, and put on an epoxy based barrier coat. If you don't have the space, tools, and patience to attempt the job then you'd be better off with the wing keel.
If your concerns were based on performance (as in racing), the wing keel does not perform as well on all points of sail as the fin keel or swing keel. I don't know for certain because I have not sailed all three to compare, but that's just what I have read myself. If you aren't worried about performance characteristics, and it sounds like you aren't, I would say a wing keel is still a better choice.
For trailer sailors (who launch and recover on the trailer frequently), the preference is the swing keel since it sits lower on the trailer than a wing keel or fin keel. You've already addressed that, you'll only haul out once a year so the wing keel is still the way to go for your needs.
Price and availability of used C-22's is a concern for some. You'll find there will be a larger number of used swing keels available and their condition can range from very poor to just ok, few are in excellent shape and the price will reflect that. There are fewer of the wing keels out there and they will be 1986 models or newer. You might find some of these in better condition and being newer model years they will have a higher asking price. If you have a slightly larger budget, don't want to do extensive improvements or maintenance, and the patience to wait for the right one to come along, then the wing keel is still your best choice.
FYI, if looking for a wing keel, be willing to drive a fair distance to find one. Some sailors have driven as far as 1000 miles (no kidding) when they found the right boat at the right price.

CaptDon01 · Mar 25, 2016

Archimedes,
Where are you located in Florida? I'm in the Sarasota area. There are currently a couple wing keeled "new design" versions of the C-22 for sale in my area. One has a trailer, and the other doesn't, but the price is attractive. The wing keel didn't come out until 1988, and the new design is a nice boat for cruising, but is not a racer. I have a wing keel version of the C-22 MK-II, so you could see one close up. There is a fin keel boat available on a trailer locally for $600, and I'm sure it needs a LOT of work. Yes, keeping the boat in the water can be an issue for a swing keel boat, but many swing keel C-22's are kept in the water. But it will require more maintenance, and depending on your abilities, and equipment, paying for maintenance can quickly get expensive. Normally the boat is lifted off the trailer to do the bottom painting. So again, are you able to do it? The C-22 Tech Manual has information on getting the boat off the trailer for the DIY guys. Which brings me to my next point. My opinion is to buy the best boat you can find. It will always be much cheaper in the end. Personally, I want to sail, and I've spent my time fixing boats. So when I was looking for a boat, I wanted one ready to sail, requiring maybe a weekend cleaning it up. If you don't have the expertise or knowledge, or you are in doubt on the condition of the boat, have the boat surveyed by someone familiar with the C-22. It can literally save you thousands of dollars.

Hopefully you're in the Tampa Bay area and we could have lunch and talk about C-22's.

Lot's of GOOD C-22's out there for sale, don't be afraid to walk away!

Good luck,

Don

bushav · Mar 25, 2016

Love my 1988 Wing Keel. Especially as I keep seeing threads about swing keel maintenance. Fits on my trailer and tows just fine. Looks good while snorkeling. Feels substantial.

Lane

CaptDon01 · Mar 25, 2016

Archimedes,
"IF" the keel was properly maintained and was sealed with a good epoxy barrier coating, I would still give it an annual inspection. Bottom paint would be no different than the rest of the boat, so it would depend on the paint, and the cleaning. The swing keel on a C-22 hangs below the boat, so you can get to the majority of the keel. But normally you still have to lift the boat because of the minimal space under the trailer. Something to keep your eye out for is a MK-II version manufactured between 1995 and 2012, or the C-22 Sport, manufactured since 2004 and still in production. The foundry in Mexico went out of business in the 90's where the cast iron keels were made. The factory came out with a new keel that has a stainless steel support, uses lead for ballast, and the whole thing is encased in a nice fiberglass shell. So a lot of the maintenance and barrier coating required of the cast iron keels is eliminated. The MK-II versions are a rare find, only a few hundred were produced, and they have the Capri-22 wing keel, and of course the new designed swing keel. All the C-22's use the same hull, except the MK-II's which are 8" wider. They have a completely different interior that is much more open, however, my favorite version is still the "new designs",(1986-1994). The Sport is only available with a swing keel, and are more performance oriented with no pop-top. That's one thing you'll enjoy with a C-22 vs the Com-Pac's is the pop-top. This offers you standing headroom while on the hook, and in the slip. There is also an optional tent to enclose the cabin with the pop-top up. Checkout the National C-22 Association web site for information on the North Gulf Coast Cruise in May out of Ft Walton Beach Florida. There will be all 4 versions of the C-22 there, so it gives you a good chance to check them out, and talk with the owners.

Don

Gene Neill · Mar 25, 2016

Archimedes ... I like your handle! The man is/was a hero to me, and to all humankind. Welcome!

If I were in your position, I would absolutely seek out a wing keel. I wouldn't own a fin here in Florida if they were giving them away, as such a large percentage of the most beautiful cruising areas here involve extremely thin water. (Just this week, we were picking our way through 2.2 feet of shoaling sand). Likewise, I would not dream of keeping a swing keel in the salt water full time. I don't need the maintenance headaches that would involve. For trailer sailing, a swing keel is perfect and I wouldn't trade ours for anything. But not if we slipped her in saltwater, no way, not unless she had one of those fancy new keels Don mentioned.

Just my humble opinions of course.

jssailem · Mar 25, 2016

Of Course some of the well to do have canals behind their homes in Florida. At least in the Sarasota area I observed boat lifts on most of their docks. It is kind of like trailering but you can have tea or drinks on the lawn over looking the canal...

Benny17441 · Mar 25, 2016

I think you have answered your own question in that the wing keel would be the best. The only questions is do you intend to trailer or not as for trailering the swing keel is most convenient. Regarding shallow waters in Florida the problems begin with a draft exceeding 4 1/2 ft and I would think the 22' catalina should be bellow that.

CaptDon01 · Mar 26, 2016

Wing keels aren't a problem in the skinny Florida waters.....
Don

SFS · Mar 26, 2016

Archimedes, If it is sailable (rigging, sails, hull are all ok), the $600 vessel that Don mentioned above MAY be worthwhile, if you don't care about cosmetics, which are likely not great. That is an inexpensive way to get on the water soon (if the boat can be sailed). The trailer may be worth that much (or may not), and just renting a boat for a few afternoons (at least from places I'm familiar with) would cost a similar amount.

Just something to think about. I have no connection to any of the boats mentioned above. Any boat you buy is a depreciating asset, and you will never be able to sell one for the price you paid (though there is an occasional exception).

Having said all that, I agree with many of the forum members that it is much better to buy the boat you want, equipped with what you want, in good condition, rather than a fixer. Fixers are not cheaper in the long run. But at less than a "boat unit", $600 MIGHT be worth a look.

CaptDon01 · Mar 26, 2016

Archimedes,
Well, the photos were intended to set the hook..... Anyway, remember, bottom paint is for keeping marine growth under check, it will do nothing for corrosion control. You can see in the attached photo the results on my 1988 C-22 that the previous owner only applied bottom paint to, and the boat was kept in a slip in saltwater. The cast iron needs to be encapsulated, and an epoxy barrier coat is the best protection, but it's just part of the swing keel maintenance. Also, how deep is the water where you intend to keep it in a slip? Most forget the swing keel was designed primarily for the ease of trailering and launching. At all other times, the keel should be kept lowered. Now folks crank up the keel when out for the weekend and beaching the boat, or if they run aground, not an issue. But leaving the boat in a slip, or on a mooring with the keel cranked up is the leading cause of issues concerning wear at the keel pin and the hole in the keel where it slides through. When the keel is down, as it should be, it's supported in the keel trunk and limits the movement at the keel pin. Plus, there is always the possibility of the keel cable failing, and if the keel is in the up position, severe damage, or worst, can occur inside the keel trunk. I don't mean to scare you, just make you aware. Again, hundreds and hundreds of swing keeled C-22's are kept in a slip. Years ago in the midwest, our original C-22,(a swing keel boat), was kept on a mooring a couple years, and probably 10 years in a slip. But the keel was left down, and the keel was properly encapsulated with Interlux epoxy barrier paint. The boat was hauled out every winter so I could inspect everything, and do my maintenance.
A wing keeled boat will be harder to find. They came out with the optional wing in 1988 with the new design boats. Only about 2,000 new design boats were built between 1986 and 1994. They only built a few hundred of the MK-II versions between 1995 and 2012. So the chances of finding one next door is pretty slim. But then again, the chances of finding any clean, well maintained C-22 next door is probably pretty slim. The cleanest, well maintained, ready to sail boat I've purchased was in Phoenix, when we lived in San Diego, so it was still about 500 miles away. And keep in mind, a wing keeled C-22 is probably the most desirable version, and if they are clean and well maintained, they sell quickly, and get a premium price. I've refurbished two wing keeled C-22's, and after I got done with them they were very clean, in excellent condition, ready to sail, and they sold in less than a day.

Good luck in your search, your boat is out there, now go find it!

Don

Daveinet · Mar 26, 2016

Working on a swing keel while the boat is still on the trailer is not all that bad. I redid mine last spring. My keel goes all the way up inside the boat. I did two things, which allowed me to lower the keel while the boat was on the trailer. I dug out a small pit, directly below where the keel swings down. I also backed the trailer up on car ramps, to get it up in the air. I was able to sit under the boat, and sand blast the whole keel. Sand blasting worked much better than a grinder. Painted it with a couple of coats of zinc, and it was good to go.

jepomer · Mar 26, 2016

You may want to consider the Catalina Capri 22 with a wing keel. They are more plentiful and a bit more "sporty" with a larger cockpit. I really enjoy mine.

Gene Neill · Mar 26, 2016

archimedes said:
Yeah, I think I've determined that the wing keel would be best. However, I'm getting a little weary from the search. Trying to find the right boat, in the right location, at the right price has proven difficult.

I'm sure you saw these, but ...

http://tampa.craigslist.org/pnl/boa/5434220227.html

http://fortmyers.craigslist.org/lee/boa/5436297015.html