Which Groove?

[newsailor06]

Found the Problem!

Well Saturday went pretty well. Upon arriving at the marina, my fellow sailor and I began looking at the jib halyard, and the furler roller. It was obvious that the angle between the halyard and the roller is very shallow. This shallow angle looked as if it would cause the halyard to rub against the foil. Since the foil on the Harken is of an oblong type, the halyard would probably catch on the off center part of the foil.To verify this, we loosened the halyard enough that any tension was removed. Then tried to turn the furler...it turned very easily. Then we tightened it and tried again..yep, it grabbed the oblong portion of the foil and caused the halyard to wrap around the foil. Not good.....Since I wanted to clean and lubricate the upper roller, we lowered the jib and got a good look at the halyard. It was well worn through the cover of the double braid. Since the eye was put in with a fids, I am going to cut the line back, and remake the eye. Will need a fids kit and it is already on order so I will have it when I am ready.Next step is to make sure the top roller is closer to the masthead. In looking at the set up now, it was discovered that even when the jib is pulled tight, there is still a lot of room at the top of the foil. This extra room causes the halyard angle to be shallow rather than steep. By raising the roller closer to the masthead and to the foil top, the angle will probably increase enough so that the halyard does not wrap around the foil. Since the sail luff is a little shorter than anticipated, a pendant..placed either at the top of the jib or on the bottom will serve the purpose. I am thinking about putting the pendant on the bottom so that the jib is a little higher off of the deck. Any input would be appreciated.Thanks for all of your help to this point.

 

[newsailor06]

Found the Problem!

Well Saturday went pretty well. Upon arriving at the marina, my fellow sailor and I began looking at the jib halyard, and the furler roller. It was obvious that the angle between the halyard and the roller is very shallow. This shallow angle looked as if it would cause the halyard to rub against the foil. Since the foil on the Harken is of an oblong type, the halyard would probably catch on the off center part of the foil.To verify this, we loosened the halyard enough that any tension was removed. Then tried to turn the furler...it turned very easily. Then we tightened it and tried again..yep, it grabbed the oblong portion of the foil and caused the halyard to wrap around the foil. Not good.....Since I wanted to clean and lubricate the upper roller, we lowered the jib and got a good look at the halyard. It was well worn through the cover of the double braid. Since the eye was put in with a fids, I am going to cut the line back, and remake the eye. Will need a fids kit and it is already on order so I will have it when I am ready.Next step is to make sure the top roller is closer to the masthead. In looking at the set up now, it was discovered that even when the jib is pulled tight, there is still a lot of room at the top of the foil. This extra room causes the halyard angle to be shallow rather than steep. By raising the roller closer to the masthead and to the foil top, the angle will probably increase enough so that the halyard does not wrap around the foil. Since the sail luff is a little shorter than anticipated, a pendant..placed either at the top of the jib or on the bottom will serve the purpose. I am thinking about putting the pendant on the bottom so that the jib is a little higher off of the deck. Any input would be appreciated.Thanks for all of your help to this point.

 

[Stu Jackson]

I suggest

the pendant on the bottom so that the jib is a little higher off of the deck. Unless you're a racer with a deck sweeper jib, higher is safer with an improved view below the foot of the jib.

 

[Stu Jackson]

I suggest

the pendant on the bottom so that the jib is a little higher off of the deck. Unless you're a racer with a deck sweeper jib, higher is safer with an improved view below the foot of the jib.

 

[newsailor06]

Thanks Stu

That is pretty much what we had decided. I have a 150 and I need as much clear area as I can get to see ahead. The pendant will serve that purpose. When we had the previous hank on sails, we used a pendant on them as well. Hmm... that gives me an idea. I just might have that pendant around somewhere.

 

[newsailor06]

Thanks Stu

That is pretty much what we had decided. I have a 150 and I need as much clear area as I can get to see ahead. The pendant will serve that purpose. When we had the previous hank on sails, we used a pendant on them as well. Hmm... that gives me an idea. I just might have that pendant around somewhere.

 

[Brian M H23]

Pendant and heeling

is the increase in heeling moment when raising the jib a few inches noticable? (aka reefing earlier,etc, etc)

 

[Brian M H23]

Pendant and heeling

is the increase in heeling moment when raising the jib a few inches noticable? (aka reefing earlier,etc, etc)

 

[RichH]

Pendants on sails.....

If you put the pendent on the bottom you will raise the CE of the sail (increases heeling) and lessen the aerodynamic efficiency of the sail (high pressure side will 'leak' / 'shunt' across the foot of the sail to the low pressure side)..... .If you put the pendent on the top of the sail, the CE will be lower, and you will stop the 'shunt' of wind across the foot of the sail ........ making the sail MUCH more efficient. Racers have the foot of their foresails 'touching' the deck to prevent this 'leakage' ... and can carry 'smaller' sails to do the exact same job as a much larger sail carried 'high' over the deck. Then consider why most of the newer production boats now have the furler drum **below** the deck .... so the headsail can act as a 'decksweeper'. If you need to SEE, install some clear vinyl windows in the sail.

 

[RichH]

Pendants on sails.....

If you put the pendent on the bottom you will raise the CE of the sail (increases heeling) and lessen the aerodynamic efficiency of the sail (high pressure side will 'leak' / 'shunt' across the foot of the sail to the low pressure side)..... .If you put the pendent on the top of the sail, the CE will be lower, and you will stop the 'shunt' of wind across the foot of the sail ........ making the sail MUCH more efficient. Racers have the foot of their foresails 'touching' the deck to prevent this 'leakage' ... and can carry 'smaller' sails to do the exact same job as a much larger sail carried 'high' over the deck. Then consider why most of the newer production boats now have the furler drum **below** the deck .... so the headsail can act as a 'decksweeper'. If you need to SEE, install some clear vinyl windows in the sail.

 

[Robert Gainer]

Increase the heeling moment ?

With a 400 square foot Genoa raised 18” you increase the heeling moment in the rig by about 3%. I don’t think you will see the difference. The end plate effect with a deck sweeper is real but unless you are a very serious racer alongside another boat for reference you won’t see the difference in that either.Having the pennant at the bottom has a few advantages. You can see under the sail and you won’t sweep up water when you dunk the bow on a rough day. If it was my boat a tack pennant instead of a head pennant is the way to go.All the best,Robert Gainer

 

[Robert Gainer]

Increase the heeling moment ?

With a 400 square foot Genoa raised 18” you increase the heeling moment in the rig by about 3%. I don’t think you will see the difference. The end plate effect with a deck sweeper is real but unless you are a very serious racer alongside another boat for reference you won’t see the difference in that either.Having the pennant at the bottom has a few advantages. You can see under the sail and you won’t sweep up water when you dunk the bow on a rough day. If it was my boat a tack pennant instead of a head pennant is the way to go.All the best,Robert Gainer

 

[newsailor06]

Thanks for the input on pendant placement but...

the sail we are using is a used one. Not sure of the age, but I was able to pick up the furler and sail for a huge discount. Since it came off of the Capri, I had a local sail maker cut it down so it would fit. If it were a new sail, I would consider putting the pendant at the top and fitting in some clear vinyl windows. Our use of the boat is for pleasure and we haven't considered racing, so the loss of efficiency is not a priority and visibility is. Maybe when we get a new head sail I will make the change, but for now, my sailing guests like it when they don't get swept off the foredeck when tacking. ;-) BTW: The only racing we do is to the cooler for a cold one after a nice sail.

 

[newsailor06]

Thanks for the input on pendant placement but...

the sail we are using is a used one. Not sure of the age, but I was able to pick up the furler and sail for a huge discount. Since it came off of the Capri, I had a local sail maker cut it down so it would fit. If it were a new sail, I would consider putting the pendant at the top and fitting in some clear vinyl windows. Our use of the boat is for pleasure and we haven't considered racing, so the loss of efficiency is not a priority and visibility is. Maybe when we get a new head sail I will make the change, but for now, my sailing guests like it when they don't get swept off the foredeck when tacking. ;-) BTW: The only racing we do is to the cooler for a cold one after a nice sail.